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About mezzanine

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  1. The mods don't care about people getting scammed; it's not their responsibility. They are very clear that they take no part of the sales forum or in protecting posters. I'm not criticizing them for it, but am pointing it out so that people are clear about the vulnerability to being scammed here.
  2. It's probably okay to buy from established posters here who have a reputation at stake, but yeah, this is not a great item to buy used, generally.
  3. Be really careful buying a used EUC here. You won't be able to know if the wheel is in good condition. Ewheels is a great place to look. You want to save money buying used, but this isn't like buying other used goods.
  4. At this point, my primary goal is to prevent this from happening to anyone else. A big key to understand is that scammers are absolute experts at knowing the system and being able to game it, so if you're completely unfamiliar with paypal, like myself, you're at a serious disadvantage. These wheels are so risky to buy used because of potential battery issues, which is what I got caught on. You can have a catastrophic battery problem and the buyer can still claim in it's "like new." That's how I got caught. Think really carefully before buying a used wheel.
  5. I made a big mistake by not fully understanding the paypal dispute process. Make sure you don't react emotionally (which is difficult when you believe you're being scammed) and fully process and understand the claims process before you file a claim. I suffer from a cognitive disability and didn't realize that I was selecting the option that I'd already received the wheel. Not an excuse, it's my responsibility to recognize when I'm at risk of misunderstanding something. This allowed the seller to cancel the shipment while it was enroute (or he intentionally mislabeled the shipping destination, I don't know). I've tried to indicate to paypal that the wheel never arrived, but because I made the initial mistake of indicating the wrong option when filing the claim, it isn't clear that my attempt to provide the tracking number proving the wheel never arrived and was returned to the sender will be understood by the paypal investigator. Chriull, I appreciate your feedback. This has been devastating because the cost of this wheel is 1/10th of my yearly income. I rely on wheels for my transportation. All my research suggests that you're at paypal's mercy regarding legal recourse. Willy, I'm going to contact my bank, but I'm not optimistic. This was paid via a debit card. What's crazy is that I shouldn't have even been able to make the payment because I was prompted to provide identity verification before I could make payment. The seller sent me a link and is very skillful at using the paypal system as I've learned through the way he's managed the dispute process to get the wheel back and the money. I'm now 4 and a half hours on hold to paypal by phone! I'm now up to $30 just on the phone bill to be kept on hold to try to get someone in person to help me. The big warning I have for people is not to use paypal for purchases with any kind of risk right now. There is no way to get help via phone from paypal right now and it puts one at serious risk of being scammed.
  6. This is just a general warning for anyone considering buying a used wheel via the forum. It looks like I'm about to be fully scammed (no money, no wheel) by a user here and I don't want to see this happen to anyone else. The mods can't do anything for users who get scammed. Paypal isn't nearly as helpful in these situations as you might assume. The seller can just cancel the delivery once it's been sent or intentionally use an incorrect address to have the package returned to them. If they know how the paypal system works, they can use that knowledge to game the claims/dispute system. I'm sure 95% of the sellers here are legit, but ask yourself if it's worth taking the risk you'll get scammed. Make sure the poster you're buying from is active on the forum and has a reputation here. There should be a minimum post count for anyone to sell a wheel and a feedback forum for those who have completed transactions to leave comments about the transaction. My feeling is that there is way too much that can go wrong with these wheels, especially with batteries, to have confidence buying a used wheel from anyone who isn't confirmed as trustworthy through the community. There's WAY too much incentive for people with a broken wheel to attempt to dump it on someone unsuspecting and some issues are hard to identify quickly. Paypal's call center is COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN right now due to covid! This is the perfect time for scammers to strike.
  7. It's really very simple; there's zero incentive not to sell broken wheels here. Quite the opposite, in fact. I didn't realize it, and I fully admit it. I'm merely trying to alert other members who may read this that may not understand the incentive to sell broken wheels here. I've observed more than one member comment about receiving damaged wheels. One guy commented that he's bought two wheels from the forum and BOTH came to him damaged. I just hope that potential buyers read your response and can observe for themselves your perspective and attitude towards this potential problem, a problem that I believe is relatively unique for EUCs compared to most other products, given their complexity, newness, high $ value, potential danger as electric vehicles, etc.. You've been very clear in your position that there is no problem. There are lots of much larger websites that allow private sales that have instituted some safe-guards (minimum post counts, for example) to try to control this risk. Take a look at head-fi, the headphone hobby forum some time if you want to know what a moderator team that doesn't stick their head in the sand has done to address this issue. One example among many. Instead of essentially concern-trolling fraud victims, they chose to actually "analyze (exactly) what went wrong for future transactions." Your stance may have been appropriate a couple years ago when posters mostly knew each other before the # of users here took off as the hobby became more popular. Clearly you don't think this is going to be a growing problem here in the future and that my concerns are invalid, as is your right. My intention is simply to alert any users that read this about what can happen and what type of response you're likely to receive if you bring it up in the community. I would bet $ there are unethical people who will read this thread and feel very encouraged about the potential to ride their wheel till it breaks and then offload it here. Why wouldn't you? That's not a judgment of the moderators role or responsibility on the sales forum, but an observation of fact. And yeah, I agree with those that believe this discussion has run it's course.
  8. If you or any other mod would like a full transcript of our communication, please let me know. It's very frustrating to observe the reaction from those who have no idea what happened, but claim it's an open question where the fault lies with zero effort made to actually investigate the transaction. Mods, why not contact the other posters who inquired about the wheel? I'd bet a lot of money they will tell you they clued into the battery problem. I'd note that I begged Mike not to ship the wheel early this morning BEFORE HE SHIPPED IT ANYWAY. I also volunteered to pay what I thought was the full shipping amount if he'd simply accept the wheel back! Think about it: I offered to pay the guy who deliberately scammed me $150 US in an effort to take the high road. Nope. Apparently he managed to find a shipping company that charged $300 US to ship it and feels I should be responsible for that full cost, despite my repeated requests he use USPS freight. Never. Again. Mods, I'd also be more than happy to provide you with my Ebay account with perfect feedback going back almost 20 years now as well as my Amazon account in perfect standing. Not to mention I've bought two wheels through the forum before and had seamless and pleasant transactions on both occasions. Also have 900 posts and have been an active member of the community. What's frustrating is that it doesn't seem like anyone wants to do even the most basic due diligence into what happened here, and instead treat Mike as though he may be the real victim here. While I'm impressed with his ability to gaslight, it's totally unacceptable. This isn't even a hard situation to deconstruct with even a basic amount of effort or research. Never. Again.
  9. I'd ask the mods and anyone reading to take a sincere and honest look at the evidence in this situation and come to your conclusion about what happened here. What happened isn't ambiguous at all if you simply connect the dots. I've literally been physically ill all day today because of this.
  10. I'm super grateful for your input SP, thank-you. He's definitely a scammer, right down to gaslighting himself as the victim and suggesting HE'S the one being scammed, as you can read for yourself. I don't do a lot of online transactions, needless to say.
  11. Already emailed him early early this morning asking him not to ship. Wanna guess what he did anyway?
  12. Paypal. I offered to eat the shipping and he's washing his hands of the whole thing. "you bought it as is" is his response.
  13. I don't have a Gotway charger. I contacted the seller before he's shipped the wheel asking to cancel, but it looks like he bought postage. He's using the cost of the postage as a reason why I need to accept the wheel. If you've ever dealt with a scammer before, they're quick to paint themselves as the ignorant victim and deny deny deny, despite whatever clear evidence there is of their guilt. It's not productive or pleasant communication. I wanted to believe it could be a less concerning problem, but it's the precise voltage the wheel charges to that causes me to think it's safe to assume it's a damaged cell. I dismissed it because I figured it was due to battery wear and that's where I have to take responsibility for my lack of knowledge.
  14. I'm grateful for all feedback, thanks SP. I don't even think he's shipped it yet, ironically. Man, emotionally, this has been tough to swallow. Being outright and deliberately scammed is an awful feeling. I'm not suggesting I don't have some responsibility as the buyer, but I'm not happy about how this happened. I really hope there's more input provided by the mods on the policy in these types of cases. Again, the hardest part to accept is it appears as though posters saw there was a major problem and didn't say anything.
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