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The Gotway Tesla 1020wh Model Open Box and Initial thoughts


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1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

Yeah, I know!  I almost didn't mention it in case someone scoops it on me.  It would be closer to $1700 for me with taxes and shipping.  Is it really $700 better than a V8 when you account for the QC issues?  The threads in the Gotway subsection of the forum don't really inspire a lot of confidence...

I'm grateful for the guidance.  The Tesla is still interesting to me if I could get it for $1400 cdn shipped for the 850wh version.   

 

The ACM is -i would say- not comparable to the V8....its another class! Double the motorpower, 2.5 times batterie...And quality problems have only occured on SOME extrem ride settings, extrem long uphills etc etc....

Which prices do you compare...over what. currency we are talking?

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5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

you'll be able to enjoy one of the hottest wheels coming out.

Do you know these stories of oracles from antiquity, being maximally ambiguous and formulating carefully and circuitously, so their predictions could be read either way (in hindsight) and so would always come true and they would appear wiser and wiser as time went on? This is right from the Oracle of Gotway, courtesy of its high priest, the most venerable Martinos Backestotolos:efee612b4b:

--

In seriousness, I don't expect the Tesla to have new issues (still guessing they're reusing ACM boards, somehow the existence of 67.2V Teslas muist be explained), I expect it to fry on high currents just like the ACM/msuper V3 simply because the cables are the same, but if something new comes up, I won't be too surprised as well. Hopefully it will be a good wheel (despite the small battery).

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4 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I would say a reasonable price for a good wheel is under or near $1500 USD.  It is a heavy investment for what you are getting, but the fun factor and amazing range should not be underestimated.

@mezzanine The 1500 USD/EUR number is a fantastic guideline. Went exactly like this for me, "How much might these things cost, I'd be willing to spend up to 500 on my first one" to "Ooooooh.... looks like more towards 1000!" to "Ok, but definitely not above 1500!" to "Well.. so that's it" (1650€ ACM 1300 in January). It's either that, or a smaller (14 inch) or lower capacity wheel. You'll have to decide which you prefer and if you could be happy with a V8 for example (not sure if they can even still be bought, they renamed it and added 500 to the price so now is no longer competitive).

Given free choice, I'd say the 16S is perfect for you. Safe and no issues with great quality, good speed and range unless you're a long distance freak, and that trolley handle most of all. If you want to use the thing for commuting, shopping etc I can tell you the ACM is not at all fun to carry when not riding, even lobbing it into a shopping cart (whether its dirty or not)... it isn't really made for that. There's an external trolley handle for it though, so that's an option, and the ACM might have the advantage of a comparably good price.

Or maybe the Tesla will be a good choice, but looks like you may either have to wait or get one as soon as possible for a good price. Nothing wrong with doing the latter, I don't expect it to have (new) issues and if you buy from a more or less local dealer (recommended for first wheel) even that would be just hassle at most, but no real problem. So your initial idea wasn't bad at all (if you like the Tesla's looks).

It's also about your gut preference which wheel you'd be happy with (this includes looks) and hopefully you will have all the options available in your nordic EUC desert;)

@Hunka Hunka Burning Love Very cute how you take your fellow Canadian under your wings (also :laughbounce2: at your new location).

I've essentially only done one ride on snow, but it was deep, slushy, crusty snow on an inclined mountain road and that worked perfectly. Snow isn't slippery at all (I also know this from years of bicycle commuting experience). But I can also confirm (hard) ice is slippery, and you'll basically have to fall if you hit it (much like on a bicycle).

Another winter consideration, road salt probably isn't very good for a wheel.

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3 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

If buying from China-aliexpress: The prices on the website are including transport AND customs...so the quoted price is directly to your door....

???

 

I have never seen that. The prices quoted are usually including shipping (for euc's) but NOT including tax / customs:

 

59bd1018756ae_ScreenShot2017-09-16at13_49_38.thumb.png.88ba773dc7eb80b28e1f94ad78f65a65.png

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7 hours ago, mezzanine said:

The appeal of the Tesla is in the motor size and battery, but I like that it seems to borrow from Inmotion styling, with a thinner design than the other Gotways. 

That is only appearance (shared also with the MCM4). WIth 20cm body width the Tesla isn't at all thin (the V8 has 15cm, numbers taken from here)

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1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

???

 

I have never seen that. The prices quoted are usually including shipping (for euc's) but NOT including tax / customs:

 

59bd1018756ae_ScreenShot2017-09-16at13_49_38.thumb.png.88ba773dc7eb80b28e1f94ad78f65a65.png

!!! :-)

When you buy from "our" favorite euc sellers....green traveling or Rockwheel store (and some others like fineone, walking store, daibot )....transport and also customs are included.

i already have bought 3 wheels there...others here in the forum also!

custom free goes for EU, states, Canada etc

but not for Norway or Suisse...non Eu states or Russia...

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6 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

If I had to choose between the V8 and KS16S I'd probably have to pick the KS16.  The majority of people seem happy with it plus you aren't limited as much by the custom shaped battery pack that isn't that easily swappable as far as I have seen.  The ACM 1300 might be a good choice, but a few people seem to be reporting a few issues lately ( @JD Scott @Acturbo).  Maybe they got B grade units which would explain their discounted pricing?

The Tesla looks amazing, but it hasn't been real world tested by every day riders so the jury is still out.  Gotway's history for problem free wheels isn't the greatest, but lately I think (hope) they have improved over time through trial and error.  If you don't mind a bit of DIY repair if needed, it certainly might be a good wheel to try.  The MCM4 was well received, and you rarely hear problems with it although @Duf reported some higher speed mild oscillation issues which he didn't like IIRC.

Buying from Jason ensures you are covered with excellent service so the extra cost can be insurance well spent.  I think he quoted $1450 for the Tesla which is only about $150 over buying from China directly.  There may be import fees and taxes though so factor in another $200-300?  You might be able to save some money clearing customs yourself or using a third party brokerage company and not relying on Fedex/UPS's expensive services to do it for you.  If purchasing from China, I believe DHL is reasonable as well as Fedex.  I believe DHL has a handy online pay in advance system for shipments you plan to receive.

On a side note, @RooMiniPro is selling a second hand Ninebot One E+ carbon fibre edition he got from @yourtoys7 in Ontario which might be a good starter wheel.  These were originally sold for $450 USD ($500 for the carbon IIRC?) new so there might be some wiggly room for pricing.  Landed cost was closer to $800 CDN.

In the United States there are no taxes or import fees. Hopefully the same is true in Canada.

I've watched @Stan Onymous switch the battery battery pack in under 10 minutes. He seems comfortable with the process.

The thing with the V8 is that it's a cool wheel that offers a different ride than the KS16S. Based only on range I would pick the KS16S. Based on 'fun' I might pick the V8. But if it were my only wheel I'd go with KS16S.

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3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Do you know these stories of oracles from antiquity, being maximally ambiguous and formulating carefully and circuitously, so their predictions could be read either way (in hindsight) and so would always come true and they would appear wiser and wiser as time went on? This is right from the Oracle of Gotway, courtesy of its high priest, the most venerable Martinos Backestotolos:efee612b4b:

--

In seriousness, I don't expect the Tesla to have new issues (still guessing they're reusing ACM boards, somehow the existence of 67.2V Teslas muist be explained), I expect it to fry on high currents just like the ACM/msuper V3 simply because the cables are the same, but if something new comes up, I won't be too surprised as well. Hopefully it will be a good wheel (despite the small battery).

:laughbounce2: :cheers:

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1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

!!! :-)

When you buy from "our" favorite euc sellers....green traveling or Rockwheel store (and some others like fineone, walking store, daibot )....transport and also customs are included.

This is from "green traveling" ....

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6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

@mezzanine The 1500 USD/EUR number is a fantastic guideline. Went exactly like this for me, "How much might these things cost, I'd be willing to spend up to 500 on my first one" to "Ooooooh.... looks like more towards 1000!" to "Ok, but definitely not above 1500!" to "Well.. so that's it" (1650€ ACM 1300 in January). It's either that, or a smaller (14 inch) or lower capacity wheel. You'll have to decide which you prefer and if you could be happy with a V8 for example (not sure if they can even still be bought, they renamed it and added 500 to the price so now is no longer competitive).

Given free choice, I'd say the 16S is perfect for you. Safe and no issues with great quality, good speed and range unless you're a long distance freak, and that trolley handle most of all. If you want to use the thing for commuting, shopping etc I can tell you the ACM is not at all fun to carry when not riding, even lobbing it into a shopping cart (whether its dirty or not)... it isn't really made for that. There's an external trolley handle for it though, so that's an option, and the ACM might have the advantage of a comparably good price.

Or maybe the Tesla will be a good choice, but looks like you may either have to wait or get one as soon as possible for a good price. Nothing wrong with doing the latter, I don't expect it to have (new) issues and if you buy from a more or less local dealer (recommended for first wheel) even that would be just hassle at most, but no real problem. So your initial idea wasn't bad at all (if you like the Tesla's looks).

It's also about your gut preference which wheel you'd be happy with (this includes looks) and hopefully you will have all the options available in your nordic EUC desert;)

@Hunka Hunka Burning Love Very cute how you take your fellow Canadian under your wings (also :laughbounce2: at your new location).

I've essentially only done one ride on snow, but it was deep, slushy, crusty snow on an inclined mountain road and that worked perfectly. Snow isn't slippery at all (I also know this from years of bicycle commuting experience). But I can also confirm (hard) ice is slippery, and you'll basically have to fall if you hit it (much like on a bicycle).

Another winter consideration, road salt probably isn't very good for a wheel.

 

The description you make in the first paragraph about your progression in awareness of the financial cost involved made me nod my head in agreement.  In a perfect world, I would buy from Jason, but I'm working on the assumption I'd get hit hard on duties crossing the border.  He deserves all the support possible for what he's done for the community and provides tremendous value to his customers.  Canada has no such equivalent and I'm sadly on a tighter budget than most.

I agree that the KS16S would be the ideal choice, but am leaning towards the V8 for $1000.  My expected usage is mostly commuting and short-distance riding.  I want to be aware of what I'm losing in the trade-off, though, and whether I'm underestimating what I will want in range and power.  This is where the guidance has been especially helpful because I would have underestimated how your desire to ride can increase once you experience it. 

It looks like I'll be able to pick up a cheap airwheel x3 in the next day or so locally to learn on and get a feel for things with.  That may change things a bit as I wasn't expecting to get it.  Should help me in making a decision on a purchase. 

 

   

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Trust your gut feeling. Do you expect to do more commuting and shopping etc. rides, or go explore and want to do longer (range and time) rides? Usually you'll aready know.

Also I'm a range enthusiast, other people are perfectly happy with their V8 battery but for me it would be useless so I'm biased (e.g.@WARPed1701D had the decision between V8 and 16S and went for the V8, I think also for price and because it was enough, so there are other opinions).

I'd say if price is a big concern, maybe buying from Ali is better. GT16 is a possibility, and maybe other models that would not be possible when paying Canadian local prices.

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3 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Trust your gut feeling. Do you expect to do more commuting and shopping etc. rides, or go explore and want to do longer (range and time) rides? Usually you'll aready know.

Also I'm a range enthusiast, other people are perfectly happy with their V8 battery but for me it would be useless so I'm biased (e.g.@WARPed1701D had the decision between V8 and 16S and went for the V8, I think also for price and because it was enough, so there are other opinions).

I'd say if price is a big concern, maybe buying from Ali is better. GT16 is a possibility, and maybe other models that would not be possible when paying Canadian local prices.

 

Picking up this airwheel x3 for $100 will hopefully be a worthwhile investment in helping me to make a final decision on a real wheel. 

The funny thing is that it's hard to know exactly what kind of rider I'll be.  I am definitely looking for practical transportation as my primary objective, but I've read so accounts of people going straight for the higher powered models once they get a taste.  

And I sadly have to agree with you about Aliexpress, at least as a Canadian.  Makes the idea of gambling on a Gotway a riskier proposition, I think.  Still thinking about getting in touch with the company out in Vancouver to ask them about their after-sales service on the ACM. 

I was really hoping the internals or QC would show signs of significant improvement with the Tesla after all the recent trouble, but that doesn't appear to be the case.   

 

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1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

Still thinking about getting in touch with the company out in Vancouver to ask them about their after-sales service on the ACM. 

I don't remember anyone mentioning ninebot one E+,

Spoiler

Novem distribution 

 it looks like there are 6 locations in Canada.  $1250 CAD

http://www.ninebot.ca/en/

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@ir_fuel

that is just the standard aliexpress phrase.

ask each of these sellers...In -some- of the wheels desscription page it is also mentioned. Custom is included! Europe packages go over netherlands and from there direct to your door.

 

More i cant say..i have 3 wheels bought from rockwheel store.

others here have also bought wheels from green or rockwheel. @Bambino /portugal and @D i c K (ie) from Belgium 3 weeks ago for example....

no one in the EU needs to pay customs, its included in the transport service.

in the french forum that is also well known...a lot of them ordered there gt16 for about 820bucks to their door :-)

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53 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

@ir_fuel

that is just the standard aliexpress phrase.

ask each of these sellers...In -some- of the wheels desscription page it is also mentioned. Custom is included! Europe packages go over netherlands and from there direct to your door.

 

More i cant say..i have 3 wheels bought from rockwheel store.

others here have also bought wheels from green or rockwheel. @Bambino /portugal and @D i c K (ie) from Belgium 3 weeks ago for example....

no one in the EU needs to pay customs, its included in the transport service.

in the french forum that is also well known...a lot of them ordered there gt16 for about 820bucks to their door :-)

Well, we'll see about this when my Mten3 arrives.

Normally the seller covering this is legally not possible, since you, as you are importing the product, are responsible for customs / taxes /etc. The seller in China can't even do that for you! 

But hey, all the better if it is true, it would save me 5% import tax + 21% VAT + some customs fixed handling fee (about 30 euro). I'm not going to say no on that :) On these products that is not a small amount.

But I'll believe it when I see it.

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1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

 

 

in the french forum that is also well known...a lot of them ordered there gt16 for about 820bucks to their door :-)

 

This deal isn't still available I'm guessing...?  Could be an interesting option for me as a V8 alternative in the same price range. 

Steve, the Ninebots are too limited for me to consider.  I'm fairly committed to at least a V8 and am playing with the idea of an ACM 1300wh. 

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6 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

 

This deal isn't still available I'm guessing...?  Could be an interesting option for me as a V8 alternative in the same price range. 

Steve, the Ninebots are too limited for me to consider.  I'm fairly committed to at least a V8 and am playing with the idea of an ACM 1300wh. 

Last time I checked, the ~1000wh GT16 was selling for over $1300 at the Green shop.

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Seriously hesitating myself. I want more power for off-road riding.

Wait for that Ninebot Z series to come to market

Wait for the KingSong KS18L to come to market (I really don't like the big KingSong box form factor)

Get the new Rockwheel GT16 (but that's 16")

Get Robocop protection and order a Gotway MSuper V3?

18" will be the best choice I guess.

 

Then again, might be better to just wait until spring 2018.

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