The Gotway Tesla 1020wh Model Open Box and Initial thoughts

[meepmeepmayer]

Why do the 67V models even exist? Who would choose 820 Wh 67V over 850 Wh 84V?

I really believe it's because they have some old parts (boards) and must use them somehow...

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Maybe they are targeting women, lighter riders, or anyone else who may not need the high speed or climbing ability.  If they can offer a range of pricing, they can appeal to a larger audience.  Otherwise, one might see the price of $1450, and say "Oh forget that - too much!"  If they see a 67V offering at $1100, they might consider it?  They also might not need a wheel that can go 80 km in one charge, but they might opt for a lighter one that can do 50 km at moderate speeds.

Perhaps think of it like how car dealers offer their vehicles.  Some have 4 cylinders, but you can buy the same model with an optional V6 as an upgrade.  Some come with leather, auto-park, sunroof, etc while others are more base models.  

[Tomek]

23 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

We're going ahead with a limited test order of the Tesla.

• It comes in seven battery configuration/variants, 3x of 67v & 4x in 84v
• Compared to the ACMs+, the wholesale/volume prices have increased quite significantly. The 1020Wh is more expensive than the 1300Wh ACMs+
• Our preorder price for the 1020Wh model is going to be $1,450 
• Ship date is expected around the first week of November

Any word on Msuper4 from your sources?

[mezzanine]

As a noob, I'm looking at different options for my first wheel and the Tesla is the highest-end model I'm considering.  I'm really weary about jumping onboard without more info about whether the Tesla will be problematic six months down the road like we've seen recently with other models. 

 

The appeal of the Tesla is in the motor size and battery, but I like that it seems to borrow from Inmotion styling, with a thinner design than the other Gotways.  I'm considering the Tesla because my goal is to purchase only one wheel and to hopefully get three years out of it.  The idea of buying a new release gives me some reassurance that it shouldn't be dramatically improved upon for a couple of years, whereas something like KS14c is a little longer in the tooth.

On the negative side, Gotway's history of problems is a big red flag.  I want to think that they've got things turned around, but by the time I get a sense for whether the Tesla is an improvement based on user feedback here, the pre-sale will be over and it will be priced way out of my range. 

 

 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

As a noob, I'm looking at different options for my first wheel and the Tesla is the highest-end model I'm considering.  I'm really weary about jumping onboard without more info about whether the Tesla will be problematic six months down the road like we've seen recently with other models. 

 

The appeal of the Tesla is in the motor size and battery, but I like that it seems to borrow from Inmotion styling, with a thinner design than the other Gotways.  I'm considering the Tesla because my goal is to purchase only one wheel and to hopefully get three years out of it.  The idea of buying a new release gives me some reassurance that it shouldn't be dramatically improved upon for a couple of years, whereas something like KS14c is a little longer in the tooth.

On the negative side, Gotway's history of problems is a big red flag.  I want to think that they've got things turned around, but by the time I get a sense for whether the Tesla is an improvement based on user feedback here, the pre-sale will be over and it will be priced way out of my range. 

 

 

If you buy from Ewheels at least you'll have some assurance that you'll get solid support if there are problems. If you're looking for near absolute assurance that there won't be problems then you should probably avoid Gotway and buy a KingSong instead. But if you're OK living a little more on the edge, you'll be able to enjoy one of the hottest wheels coming out.

[mezzanine]

3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

If you buy from Ewheels at least you'll have some assurance that you'll get solid support if there are problems. If you're looking for near absolute assurance that there won't be problems then you should probably avoid Gotway and buy a KingSong instead. But if you're OK living a little more on the edge, you'll be able to enjoy one of the hottest wheels coming out.

Appreciate your feedback, Marty.  I'm really on the fence right now stuck between a few options.  I'm in Canada and the details of importing a EUC from the states is unclear to me, in terms of potential customs charges.  There's a Gotway ACM 1300wh available through a dealer in Vancouver that would provide a purchasing option with the possibility of after-sales service.  It's still more money than I'd like to spend. 

I've been leaning towards a V8, which is more in my budget, but am concerned that I'll wish I had gone for a larger battery in a few months and am hoping to keep the one EUC for a long while. 

 

 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I don't think buying a new release guarantees much.  Just look at some of the ACM and MSuper wheels with new connectors and higher battery capacities that came out soon after the initial releases.  I think Marty bought the ACM 1300 wh, and soon after the 1600 wh was released?

Buying a wheel is like buying a first model year car - there's bound to be issues.  The KingSong KS16S apparently has a handle that ends up not locking on one side after a while so if you need to carry it by the handle, all the weight is being carried on one latch which is a little scary.    There is a DIY fix though I read.

I'd say guesstimate how long of a commute you'd likely need a wheel for, write down a budget amount you want to spend, figure out how fast you want to ride at, factor in your weight and riding conditions (hills, flats, etc) and narrow down your choices from there.

For example, I've been quite happy with my Ninebot One E+ for the past two years.  I ride about 17 km per run which is fine for me.  I do wish I could go farther and faster so I'm considering some options.  You can always sell off your starter wheel so you don't necessarily need to buy the be all end all wheel from the get go.  Some people find out that wheeling isn't for them, but they spent a ton on a GW Monster or Msuper.

Keep in mind that these are illegal to ride in places like Vancouver, and people have received $600 fines ( @musk  @Hatchet @Merrittous MonoWheel Where ya be man?) for riding on the sidewalk there so spending a huge amount on a wheel might be a little risky for some whereas say a $800 Ninebot isn't a huge investment.  

[who_the]

2 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

There's a Gotway ACM 1300wh available through a dealer in Vancouver that would provide a purchasing option with the possibility of after-sales service. 

Before you buy, ask to open the case and check the build date and motor connectors. If the build date is early May, ask if the board has been reflashed with updated firmware that resolves a dangerous oscillation issue with Gotway wheels around those build dates. Also check the connectors off the control board to the motor, you'll want these to be the new style "bullet" connectors rather than the old style soldered/sheathed connections. If you can't be sure about both issues, I would suggest another vendor or wheel.

[mezzanine]

Just now, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I don't think buying a new release guarantees much.  Just look at some of the ACM and MSuper wheels with new connectors and higher battery capacities that came out soon after the initial releases.  I think Marty bought the ACM 1300 wh, and soon after the 1600 wh was released?

Buying a wheel is like buying a first model year car - there's bound to be issues.  The KingSong KS16S apparently has a handle that ends up not locking on one side after a while so if you need to carry it by the handle, all the weight is being carried on one latch which is a littlr scary.    There is a DIY fix thought I read.

I'd say guesstimate how long of a commute you'd likely need a wheel for, write down a budget amount you want to spend, figure out how fast you want to ride at, factor in your weight and riding conditions (hills, flats, etc) and narrow down your choices from there.

For example, I've been quite happy with my Ninebot One E+ for the past two years.  I ride about 17 km per run which is fine for me.  I do wish I could go farther and faster so I'm considering some options.  You can always sell off your starter wheel so you don't necessarily need to buy the be all end all wheel from the get go.  Some people find out that wheeling isn't for them, but they spent a ton on a GW Monster or Msuper.

Keep in mind that these are illegal to ride in places like Vancouver, and people have received $600 fines ( @musk ) for riding on the sidewalk there so spending a huge amount on a wheel might be a little risky for some whereas say a $800 Ninebot isn't a huge investment.  

 

Yeah, I took notice when I saw the thread about the guy who got fined huge in Vancouver.  I'm in Canada in Ontario and am still not 100% clear on how the local authorities will respond to the wheel. 

It's hard not to get sucked into the advice given by the veterans that you'll typically wish you'd bought a wheel with more power and battery down the line.  My original belief was that I would use the wheel mostly for commuting and running errands around the city, but I've become more open to the possibility that I may enjoy riding and want to find reasons to extend my trips. 

I wish there were more options in the $800-1000 range with power.  Probably in a year from now there will be more options in my price range, but I find I'm stuck in a kind of nether-region between the V8/KS14c and the huge $$ jump to get into the ACM/KS16S territory. 

I think I'll end up with the V8, but I'm trying to reconcile myself to the battery.  If it was just a bit bigger... 

 

 

 

[mezzanine]

5 minutes ago, who_the said:

Before you buy, ask to open the case and check the build date and motor connectors. If the build date is early May, ask if the board has been reflashed with updated firmware that resolves a dangerous oscillation issue with Gotway wheels around those build dates. Also check the connectors off the control board to the motor, you'll want these to be the new style "bullet" connectors rather than the old style soldered/sheathed connections. If you can't be sure about both issues, I would suggest another vendor or wheel.

Yeah, what you're suggesting has gone through my mind as something I'd have to investigate if I was to get more serious about buying it.  I appreciate the guidance.  Not sure it's a great wheel for a beginner with these potential issues, but there aren't a lot of options if you want the battery size.   I'm pretty sure this seller has had this wheel up for sale for at least six months, if that timeline makes the likelihood it would be affected any more clear.   

[US69]

4 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

I wish there were more options in the $800-1000 range with power.  Probably in a year from now there will be more options in my price range, but I find I'm stuck in a kind of nether-region between the V8/KS14c and the huge $$ jump to get into the ACM/KS16S territory. 

I think I'll end up with the V8, but I'm trying to reconcile myself to the battery.  If it was just a bit bigger... 

As power aka amps needs a lot of parallel batterie settups...i dont think the 800bucks price point will be reached.

As "veteran" my tip for a wheel would be -at minimum- a V8...better a KS16S or ACM 1300wh! Yes, there have been several problems on SOME of the wheels...(V8 also) but in general on a good seller you will not have to deal with such easter eggs. 

My experience was that one week after i learned driving i upgraded my Ks14c from 340 to 680wh :-) So thinking about a "bigger" wheel-batterie from the start is a good idea.

 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I had a hard time wrapping my head around a more expensive wheel for the longest time.  I always wanted to stay sub $1000 and expected prices to drop down, and although they are slowly getting less expensive for some models, unless you are willing to wait a long time, you won't be getting the latest and greatest.  That plus sometimes they discontinue parts so buying older generation models may leave you stuck like owners of the KS18A.

I would say a reasonable price for a good wheel is under or near $1500 USD.  It is a heavy investment for what you are getting, but the fun factor and amazing range should not be underestimated.  You only live once, and you'll always make more money.  Why not have some fun while traveling on one of the most unusual methods of transportation?

People put down thousands for elecrtric bikes so paying a little extra for a nimble, long range single wheel cruiser isn't totally unreasonable.

[mezzanine]

2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

As power aka amps needs a lot of parallel batterie settups...i dont think the 800bucks price point will be reached.

As "veteran" my tip for a wheel would be -at minimum- a V8...better a KS16S or ACM 1300wh! Yes, there have been several problems on SOME of the wheels...(V8 also) but in general on a good seller you will not have to deal with such easter eggs. 

My experience was that one week after i learned driving i upgraded my Ks14c from 340 to 680wh :-) So thinking about a "bigger" wheel-batterie from the start is a good idea.

 

 

Yeah, I came in with some preconceived notions of what is acceptable to pay for a wheel and am gradually coming to grips with the recognition that it's going to cost more than I had hoped.  I'm still very much on the fence between ordering from China for the cost savings- Marty made a comment in another thread that warranty is pretty much useless with all these brands of wheels- or staying within Canada and going through a dealer, even though I have my doubts that there would be any effective after-sales service with me being on the other side of the country. 

This is why I was so curious about the Tesla because I figured with the introductory pricing I might get the performance I want and save a few hundred over comparable models like the ACM/KS16S.  The King Songs are nothing but a tease to me at this point.  I don't even know how I'd go about buying one within Canada.  Not sure they've got a dealer here and would be too expensive if they did.  The 16S would be perfect. 

[Marty Backe]

21 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

 

Yeah, I took notice when I saw the thread about the guy who got fined huge in Vancouver.  I'm in Canada in Ontario and am still not 100% clear on how the local authorities will respond to the wheel. 

It's hard not to get sucked into the advice given by the veterans that you'll typically wish you'd bought a wheel with more power and battery down the line.  My original belief was that I would use the wheel mostly for commuting and running errands around the city, but I've become more open to the possibility that I may enjoy riding and want to find reasons to extend my trips. 

I wish there were more options in the $800-1000 range with power.  Probably in a year from now there will be more options in my price range, but I find I'm stuck in a kind of nether-region between the V8/KS14c and the huge $$ jump to get into the ACM/KS16S territory. 

I think I'll end up with the V8, but I'm trying to reconcile myself to the battery.  If it was just a bit bigger... 

 

 

 

@Stan Onymous rides a V8 sometimes and he carries an extra battery pack that he can change in 10 minutes. That's an option but probably isn't cheaper than a 1300at ACM.

[Marty Backe]

3 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

 

Yeah, I came in with some preconceived notions of what is acceptable to pay for a wheel and am gradually coming to grips with the recognition that it's going to cost more than I had hoped.  I'm still very much on the fence between ordering from China for the cost savings- Marty made a comment in another thread that warranty is pretty much useless with all these brands of wheels- or staying within Canada and going through a dealer, even though I have my doubts that there would be any effective after-sales service with me being on the other side of the country. 

This is why I was so curious about the Tesla because I figured with the introductory pricing I might get the performance I want and save a few hundred over comparable models like the ACM/KS16S.  The King Songs are nothing but a tease to me at this point.  I don't even know how I'd go about buying one within Canada.  Not sure they've got a dealer here and would be too expensive if they did.  The 16S would be perfect. 

I thought EWheels ships to Canada. Pretty sure Jason told me that fairly recently. He's your man for KingSong wheels. IM him via his website, he's very responsive.

[mezzanine]

6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

@Stan Onymous rides a V8 sometimes and he carries an extra battery pack that he can change in 10 minutes. That's an option but probably isn't cheaper than a 1300at ACM.

 

That's good news; I was under the impression that Jason had strongly advocated for an easily swappable battery with the V8 and then was dismayed when the production model was released and Inmotion hadn't made good on that promise. 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

If I had to choose between the V8 and KS16S I'd probably have to pick the KS16.  The majority of people seem happy with it plus you aren't limited as much by the custom shaped battery pack that isn't that easily swappable as far as I have seen.  The ACM 1300 might be a good choice, but a few people seem to be reporting a few issues lately ( @JD Scott @Acturbo).  Maybe they got B grade units which would explain their discounted pricing?

The Tesla looks amazing, but it hasn't been real world tested by every day riders so the jury is still out.  Gotway's history for problem free wheels isn't the greatest, but lately I think (hope) they have improved over time through trial and error.  If you don't mind a bit of DIY repair if needed, it certainly might be a good wheel to try.  The MCM4 was well received, and you rarely hear problems with it although @Duf reported some higher speed mild oscillation issues which he didn't like IIRC.

Buying from Jason ensures you are covered with excellent service so the extra cost can be insurance well spent.  I think he quoted $1450 for the Tesla which is only about $150 over buying from China directly.  There may be import fees and taxes though so factor in another $200-300?  You might be able to save some money clearing customs yourself or using a third party brokerage company and not relying on Fedex/UPS's expensive services to do it for you.  If purchasing from China, I believe DHL is reasonable as well as Fedex.  I believe DHL has a handy online pay in advance system for shipments you plan to receive.

On a side note, @RooMiniPro is selling a second hand Ninebot One E+ carbon fibre edition he got from @yourtoys7 in Ontario which might be a good starter wheel.  These were originally sold for $450 USD ($500 for the carbon IIRC?) new so there might be some wiggly room for pricing.  Landed cost was closer to $800 CDN.

[mezzanine]

51 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

If I had to choose between the V8 and KS16S I'd probably have to pick the KS16.  The majority of people seem happy with it plus you aren't limited as much by the custom shaped battery pack that isn't that easily swappable as far as I have seen.  The ACM 1300 might be a good choice, but a few people seem to be reporting a few issues lately ( @JD Scott @Acturbo).  Maybe they got B grade units which would explain their discounted pricing?

The Tesla looks amazing, but it hasn't been real world tested by every day riders so the jury is still out.  Gotway's history for problem free wheels isn't the greatest, but lately I think (hope) they have improved over time through trial and error.  If you don't mind a bit of DIY repair if needed, it certainly might be a good wheel to try.  The MCM4 was well received, and you rarely hear problems with it although @Duf reported some higher speed mild oscillation issues which he didn't like IIRC.

Buying from Jason ensures you are covered with excellent service so the extra cost can be insurance well spent.  I think he quoted $1450 for the Tesla which is only about $150 over buying from China directly.  There may be import fees and taxes though so factor in another $200-300?  You might be able to save some money clearing customs yourself or using a third party brokerage company and not relying on Fedex/UPS's expensive services to do it for you.  If purchasing from China, I believe DHL is reasonable as well as Fedex.  I believe DHL has a handy online pay in advance system for shipments you plan to receive.

On a side note, @RooMiniPro is selling a second hand Ninebot One E+ carbon fibre edition he got from @yourtoys7 in Ontario which might be a good starter wheel.  These were originally sold for $450 USD ($500 for the carbon IIRC?) new so there might be some wiggly room for pricing.  Landed cost was closer to $800 CDN.

 

Thanks for your feedback.  I think I'm cooling on the idea of going with a Gotway.  I can understand how they've been able to attain such a strong position in the EUC market despite their shortcomings simply by filling an underestimated niche for power and range. 

Yeah, I'm starting to get a clearer picture of the value of staying within the authorized dealer network.  Certainly if I was going to go with a Gotway, the value of having after-sales service would be well worth the extra money.  Still, you're looking at probably $500 difference and that's enough to make the difference for me. 

 

As far as I can tell, the only retail EUC I am aware of being sold right now in all of the country of Canada is a single Gotway ACM 1300wh.  It's actually a pretty good deal, at least in terms of price, at $1500 cdn plus taxes.  But then I ask myself if it's worth 50% more than the V8.  My logic being that I could get the V8 and upgrade in a couple of years instead of waiting three years to upgrade again. 

I'm slightly tempted to just wait and maybe get a KS16S come next spring.  I still don't know how realistic it will be to use the EUC in Canada in winter. 

 

 

[US69]

46 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Buying from Jason ensures you are covered with excellent service so the extra cost can be insurance well spent.  I think he quoted $1450 for the Tesla which is only about $150 over buying from China directly.  There may be import fees and taxes though so factor in another $200-300?  You might be able to save some money clearing customs yourself or using a third party brokerage company and not relying on Fedex/UPS's expensive services to do it for you.  If purchasing from China, I believe DHL is reasonable as well as Fedex.  I believe DHL has a handy online pay in advance system for shipments you plan to receive.

If buying from China-aliexpress: The prices on the website are including transport AND customs...so the quoted price is directly to your door....

BUT:

For a starter with first wheel ever, DEFINITLY go with a reputated seller who is nearby as possible! So if we just talk about 200bucks or so, always go with Jason, and you never have to scratch your head .....

[US69]

3 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

As far as I can tell, the only retail EUC I am aware of being sold right now in all of the country of Canada is a single Gotway ACM 1300wh.  It's actually a pretty good deal, at least in terms of price, at $1500 cdn plus taxes.  But then I ask myself if it's worth 50% more than the V8.  My logic being that I could get the V8 and upgrade in a couple of years instead of waiting three years to upgrade again. 

For china prices see post above....

And: Acm 1300wh and/or ks16s are worth the more money :-) you realize that when you always drive into the tiltback or have to plan your trips because of the limited battery :-) I also would call both wheels more safe in view of more parallel batterie systems...i have read some few threads about batterie depleting because the 2 parallel system on the V8 is stressed a bit....but perhaps this goes to much into detail.

[US69]

@mezzanine

i have just checked how much 1500 canadian dollar are for the Acm1300 at ridetheglide.ca.......1030Euro????

And as i saw you get a 5% down on checkout...also...means 1425canadian dollar...

go and get it....thats a price hit!  i would have at least to pay 1600euro in my country!

Get me one also ;-)

[mezzanine]

4 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

@mezzanine

i have just checked how much 1500 canadian dollar are for the Acm1300 at ridetheglide.ca.......1030Euro????

And as i saw you get a 5% down on checkout...also...means 1425canadian dollar...

go and get it....thats a price hit!  i would have at least to pay 1600euro in my country!

Get me one also ;-)

Yeah, I know!  I almost didn't mention it in case someone scoops it on me.  It would be closer to $1700 for me with taxes and shipping.  Is it really $700 better than a V8 when you account for the QC issues?  The threads in the Gotway subsection of the forum don't really inspire a lot of confidence...

I'm grateful for the guidance.  The Tesla is still interesting to me if I could get it for $1400 cdn shipped for the 850wh version.   

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Although some people ride in the winter over snow, I've never had much luck dealing with the lateral slide sensation so my wheel usually hibernates until spring.  Hitting ice patches is not much fun plus the road ice ruts are just too much even in a car sometimes.  I don't even feel like riding my bot when the weather is 6 C here.  The windchill gets too chilly...

Maybe consider reading up, researching some more, and thinking about buying in the spring.  That ACM 1300 deal does look pretty good plus there is that $75 off coupon to boot!  Maybe the Ninebot Z will be out by next year.  With the bigger tire it might be better for snow and ice?

[mezzanine]

Just now, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Although some people ride in the winter over snow, I've never had much luck dealing with the lateral slide sensation so my wheel usually hibernates until spring.  Hitting ice patches is not much fun plus the road ice ruts are just too much even in a car sometimes.  Maybe consider reading up, researching some more, and thinking about buying in the spring.  That ACM 1300 deal does look pretty good plus there is that $75 off coupon to boot!

I've been keeping an eye out for comments from folks who live in colder climates to get an idea of how much they use their EUC during the winter months.  A guy on youtube said he uses his Ninebot all the time, but I don't know how indicative that is.  I've been wondering whether I can use a wheel during the winter months when the roads/paths are clear.  I could grab a crappy Airwheel X3 locally here and try to hold myself off for the winter with an eye for picking up a used deal if one comes up.  Right now I'm feeling put off by the prices of the wheels I'd ideally want. 

 

 

 

 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Although this guy has proven to be a total choch , he does have some good riding videos.

This guy isn't your average rider....

Then there's @meepmeepmayer.... I don't know where exactly to classify him and his mountain cow seeking ACM... who has been known to ride in winter...

Maybe with a spiked tire it's better...