Ninebot One Z : Z6-Z8-Z10

[Lukasz]

15 minutes ago, RoberAce said:

confirmed, it is limited

This picture has specific perspective distortion.  Have a look not only on the pedal level, but also look lower, where tire touch the ground - Z10 is "more down" (or closer to the camera) than V10 , also - they are standing but not exactly straight,  and it is really hard to see what is the real pedal height difference.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Lukasz

[Adel]

3 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

This picture has specific perspective distortion.  Have a look not only on the pedal level, but also look lower, where tire touch the ground - Z10 is "more down" (or closer to the camera) than V10 , also - they are standing but not exactly straight,  and it is really hard to see what is the real pedal height difference.

You just have to compare each pedal height to the sidewalk level and your see that the V10f is about 1.5 inch higher from the sidewalk than the z10.

[kasenutty]

That's a crappy picture, but even that picture before it zooms in shows the Ninebot pedals being an acceptable height. They're not as high as the V10 but they look fine to me. 

[Adel]

 

Another video to enjoy seeing Z10 and v10f riding. Unfortunately no info.

 

 

[RoberAce]

I can not understand why too many stealth about, why these guys Z owners no tell the truth, it seems a Thriller movie

[Jason McNeil]

8 hours ago, Chriull said:

Unfortionately @EcoDrift does not make dyno rig tests anymore (he wrote something like not possible anymore with new KS and GW having too much power anyways...)

Great post! We need a decent non-inertia dyno for doing comparative Wheel testing performance, monitoring the temperature of the board/motor/wires/battery-pack given a static continuous load. It really shouldn't be all that difficult; I recall seeing a video from the German Distributor who had a nice setup with artificial pivoting feet to simulate a riders action. An intelligent undergrad EE surely should be able knock something out in a couple days. There's a few commercial solutions, but they're catered for either the multi-HP Moped/Scooter market, or for testing <250W eBikes for EURO compliance—Wheels fall into the center of these two extremes.

Over the next few months, we're going to be growing out the AZ service center, there's a plan to hire an entry level EE intern to take on projects like this. 

 

8 hours ago, Chriull said:

V10 is "limited" by the 30A fuse to a max of 84*30=2520W "system" input power down to 20 cells * 3V * 30A = 1800W for empty batteries. So in average 2160W. Additionally they should have left some headroom for the fuse, so it can not introduce an additional hazard.

Reliably informed the production V10Fs have a 40A fuse, agree there should be more, right up to the point what which the board goes up in smoke. The KS18S has 2x 40A in parallel. GW claim that their boards cannot possibly support fuses of any kind, because the peak power loads are just too great. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Jason McNeil

[fryman]

4 hours ago, Adel said:

 

Another video to enjoy seeing Z10 and v10f riding. Unfortunately no info.

 

 

Z10, looks like they integrated the trolley and mudguard together.  Nice!

[fryman]

 

[US69]

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

Reliably informed the production V10Fs have a 40A fuse, agree there should be more, right up to the point what which the board goes up in smoke. The KS18S has 2x 40A in parallel. GW claim that their boards cannot possibly support fuses of any kind, because the peak power loads are just too great. 

Actually the 18s has 2x30amp(60) on the board....AND additional 3x40amp on a mini pcb sitting on the paralell wire of the battery packs, with each 40Amp fuse protecting one battery pack....

So i  would call that what Gotway has said a bit of nonsens, as they use the same battery cells and these cant give more amps because they are sitting in a Gotway ? 

 

 

 

[Chriull]

2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

... I recall seeing a video from the German Distributor who had a nice setup with artificial pivoting feet to simulate a riders action

Quote

 

Should be helpful to get in contact with @EcoDrift, why he decided to stop his tests exactly. Also electro-sports.de did not too many tests - or at least i did not find many from them.

Could be some nice input for your project!

With every dyno test people start to talk about putting a 90 kg load or similar on the EUC to simulate the riders weight, which is nonsense. There is just some force needed so enough friction is between the tire and the rolls. The burden is introduced by the resistance of the rolls.

 

[US69]

52 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Also electro-sports.de did not too many tests - or at least i did not find many from them.

this white Ks18a! is btw my wheel ?

electro-sport has done me a favor and tested it ?

yes, thats more or less a private setup and is a lot of effort todo this tests! But plans have been to setup a dyno even to simulate bumps and road imperfectihons

[Rehab1]

24 minutes ago, US69 said:

this white Ks18a! is btw my wheel ?

electro-sport has done me a favor and tested it ?

yes, thats more or less a private setup and is a lot of effort todo this tests! But plans have been to setup a dyno even to simulate bumps and road imperfectihons

I was not aware that was your wheel. I would really like to see a rig fabricated that can test bumps and road imperfections. After studying electro-sport's test rig from videos and l should have just copied their design instead of fabricating my 'accident waiting to happen' contraption last year.

[steve454]

41 minutes ago, US69 said:

this white Ks18a! is btw my wheel ?

electro-sport has done me a favor and tested it ?

yes, thats more or less a private setup and is a lot of effort todo this tests! But plans have been to setup a dyno even to simulate bumps and road imperfectihons

I think I remember the mudflap you designed.  Looks good!  

[Boogieman]

On 4/25/2018 at 12:46 PM, Scatcat said:

I rolled up to a police van in Gothenburg to chat a little. The reason was to ask if my reflective strips, lights and ringer was enough to qualify as legal, and to ask if the pulsating light of my extra 1000lm-light was within the law. We had a nice chat, he commended me on the safety gear, but advised that while not illegal, strong pulsating lights are frowned upon...

At no point did he ever mention that there was any problem whatsoever with the vehicle as such. But then he couldn't really now the max-speed either...  

My guess is that as long as we don't behave like idiots, the police will look the other way. At least until some nosy politician gets busy suggesting regulations no-one asked for.

Cool, most police men/women are really nice and helpful, i have even gotten a free "taxi ride" home with them ? where  they were very friendly and supportive after a foreign taxi driver had tried to scam us and then spray me.

I have just had one really bad occasion where a motor bike police was waiting behind a bush at a stop sign for a "victim". He started with that i did not do a full stop, even though i had the foot on the ground and a lot of other stuff that i nerver had to pay in the end since he was wrong on a lot and behaved very threatening (so i filed a complaint and he got shit in the newspaper on his behaviour *sweet revenge*, i was pretty young at the time his colleagues that arrived even removed him from me and "took over" in a correct manner and almost excused his behaviour).

If the latter (agressive) type catches a wheeler in 40km/h+ on the bicycle trail I am pretty sure problem might arise, but luckily i haven't seen that kind of police in 20+ years so i hope only the good guys are left ?

Good move to ask them, saves a lot of googling time and some free advice on top ?

Swedish politicians...hmmm... Especially current government.....i only have one word to describe them

Kakistocracy

[Boogieman]

On 4/25/2018 at 5:46 PM, Scatcat said:

When you're done @Marty Backe, maybe you could send it to me for some "Scandinavian testing"...?  

And while it's in Sweden and when ScatCat is done with it, I could try it... just to confirm if its easy enough to ride for a total newcommer on EUC's ? Dont mind a few scratches heh ?

Edited April 26, 2018 by Boogieman

[Boogieman]

8 hours ago, Adel said:

 

Another video to enjoy seeing Z10 and v10f riding. Unfortunately no info.

 

 

I Saw that video as well, we just about to post it since it had important info.

Video at 0 min 30s

MAX SPEED 46km/h

2 * batterypacks  (at 83/84% in video)

With regards to ninebots speed on the ninebot mini plus, the app show 19-20km/h when gps show 16km/h. That is

3-4km/h or allmost 20% off.T Topspeed decrease as battery drops

So if its

Worst case 80% of 46km/h, we are looking at 37km/h top speed

2nd best case 3km/h error (fixed) we are at 43km/h

Best case, they fixed speedometer and its 46km/h at 83%, could mean 50km/h @ 100%

Don't know if this had been posted, but specs and prices seem to be here on pre order

http://shoph5.ninebot.cn

5k, 8k, 10K yuan

Edited April 27, 2018 by Boogieman

[em1barns]

6 hours ago, Boogieman said:

Don't know if this had been posted, but specs and prices seem to be here on pre order

http://shoph5.ninebot.cn

5k, 8k, 10K yuan

Yes, it was posted last August by Ninebot already. Come on, follow a bit ?

[Chriull]

 

12 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Great post! We need a decent non-inertia dyno for doing comparative Wheel testing performance, monitoring the temperature of the board/motor/wires/battery-pack given a static continuous load.

Static continous load should be not to hard to realize - an e-motor with a power inverter and a power resistor.

Very nice would be a computer controlled electronic load so controlled load changes (oszillation bug) can be tested. Best combined with a power motor driver, so braking perfomance/behaviour can be tested, too. Considering the tight thermal situation of the wheels a big fan simulating the airflow should be a "fair" measure for tests...

Problem is that electronic loads >5kW are in a price range starting somewhere about €6000. Definitely something a undergrad EE cannot design... Maybe some power resistor switched by relais could be a sufficient solution. (4 "wisely" choosen resistors make a multiple of different loads -?up to 16?)

I would make the mounting/fixture directly on the pedal mounts (with the 6 screws to the left and the right side) - i would definitely not use the different test rigs fixtures seen by now on a regular basis by employees.

Also the whole frame should be made by a professional company - or it's your responsability if some loosened steel bars fly around...

Quote

It really shouldn't be all that difficult; I recall seeing a video from the German Distributor who had a nice setup with artificial pivoting feet to simulate a riders action.

I just watched the videos again - there he had the strange idea to simulate a riders weight of 75/90 kg by putting this weight on the pedals... But could be that such a force is needed to get a good friction between the metal rolls and the tire?

Also some stepper motor with gearbox to control the leaning angle would be a great addition to have comparable results/simulate "real" hill climbs/get preprogrammed profiles. With not perfect road conditions one has continous accelerations/slow downs which are a much higher burden for the wheel then just going up a perfectly asphalted incline with constant speed.

Quote

An intelligent undergrad EE surely should be able knock something out in a couple days.

With the design, ordering time of the parts, some trial and errors/refining the design i'd give him some weeks.

Maybe a couple of days for the first detailed design.

Quote

There's a few commercial solutions, but they're catered for either the multi-HP Moped/Scooter market, or for testing <250W eBikes for EURO compliance—Wheels fall into the center of these two extremes.

Over the next few months, we're going to be growing out the AZ service center, there's a plan to hire an entry level EE intern to take on projects like this.  

Would be interesting if automated predelivery burn in tests would pay off for you as reseller? With some 10-15% return rate(defect on arrival/first use) for some models iirc this could be reasonable?

In a perfect world every EUC manufacturer should have a room full of such test rigs to do at least random production sample burn in tests...

[houseofjob]

S. China batch unboxing:

IG post of Z10 tire v motorcycle tire

forget if anyone posted this electroway IG Z test vid:

 

[Rehab1]

28 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

S. China batch unboxing:

The Z10 is definitely a beast with it’s wide stance and off-road tire. The short demo video gave me the impression the wheel is not very agile during sharp turns. It did navigate over bumps well. Maybe the rider was just not accustomed to the characteristics of the Z10 yet.

[Harold Farrenkopf]

So when will we see it in the USA or Canada? Or be able to buy it ourselves from China? Waiting is so hard!

[Marty Backe]

16 minutes ago, Harold Farrenkopf said:

So when will we see it in the USA or Canada? Or be able to buy it ourselves from China? Waiting is so hard!

EWheels will be selling it.

[Adel]

4 hours ago, houseofjob said:

S. China batch unboxing:

Great, more pictures which is nice, but where the info and evaluation of the Z. How come none of these guys seem to give any feedback on performance and capabilities ?

[houseofjob]

1 minute ago, Adel said:

Great, more pictures which is nice, but where the info and evaluation of the Z. How come none of these guys seem to give any feedback on performance and capabilities ?

3 reasons I can see:

1. The great China firewall that censors/blocks most western social media + internet.
2. Language barrier
3. S. China initial Z stock seems somewhat software restricted to appease regulations

[Adel]

Hers a video on low battery test on the Z10, unfortunately I don't know the language. Maybe someone on the board who speaks the language can give us the feedback ?