Begode Master 134V 2400WH Suspension

[EMA]

1 hour ago, Wgm said:

Just got my master from boat shipping.  First batch issues already.   It worked fine until I charged it full.  Now it wont turn off all the way.  The screen and headlight flashes.   Any idea how to fix?

 

did you try another power button ?

[Bizra6ot]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Nice! Say what you want about Begode, but they iterate hard and fast.

Now if they could fix the brittle top box of the Master (waterproofing included) and add some proper lights...

In progress 

 

"No new headlights?

 

Fei Che Biao:

Will improve. Give us some time "

[GoGeorgeGo]

4 hours ago, supercurio said:

@Paul A it makes me wonder if a non-suspension wheel would have broken down much more parts @GoGeorgeGo's incident.
Rim first, pedal hangers, axle if any? Whereas a good chunk of the energy was dissipated by the shock and its attachment point when it broke.

I would bet money a non suspension wheel would have dented the rim really good in that collision. Im so shocked the rim is okay after that. 

At first i was thinking that part needs to be stronger , or more springy. But then i realised if it bent, it would be hell to remove. Getting a cutter up inside where its located would be impossible without dismantling the whole thing (which is pretty easy to do but still no thanks)

But also if it was a lot stronger, the rim would have been toast, or maybe i bend a puece of the linkage, or maybe the pedals crack, who knows what might have broken if that part was really strong.

So i considering it was a significantly hard impact, it has only happened once in over 1000 miles of riding, and that part is really simple to replace and probably very cheap. I kinda think its designed properly and im just going to put in another stock piece. I like the idea of the rod snapping over other possible catastrophic failures.

Especially since it rode fine even after snapping and the wheel rides fine even without the suspension piston being operable. 

Also the fact that it snapping doesnt throw you off the wheel is kinda a big deal to. A bad rim bend, a pedal cracking, a tire popping, things that can send you to the pavement are a lot worse than just bottoming out and basically being on a non suspension wheel for the rest of the ride

[Wgm]

1 hour ago, EMA said:

did you try another power button ?

What do you mean exactly?  Like another physical button?  Power button turns it off and on fine, it's just after it goes of it flashes and I have to hit the lift switch button right when it goes dark to keep it off.

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, Paul A said:

If nobody purchases a first batch wheel......would manufacturers produce a second batch at all?

This is only for the interim initially. The surviving manufacturers will be nudged to respond favorably. 

Wasn't the Begode EX not well received. And they discontinued it, and came out with the EX.N? People complained about issues, and the suspension, and they responded. They ditched the EX. That is right, the second batch of the EX was not to be. Depending on interpretation though, some may say it kind of morphed into the EX.N.

Another example was with the Hero. After the debut of the S20, the preorders were piling up for the S20 but not for the Hero. People complained that the Hero's msrp was too high, and the specs underwhelming. Note that prior to the release of the Hero, people constantly berated Begode wheels for poor build quality. As it turned out, the build quality of the Hero was noticeably better than Begode wheels before it. Begode responded by lowering the msrp but also cheapened the Hero a bit. Additionally, they introduced the Master.

If people stopped placing orders on new wheels that haven't been fixed or improved, and explained why online, the manufacturers will take notice. However, it is important to communicate to them as to why people are not preordering. Otherwise, the manufacturers may do something else instead when responding. If people only place orders on new wheels that have shown to be issues free, that is what we will get.

Let me start by using myself as an example.

I have been planning to get a 2nd gen suspension wheel since they were announced last year. I was expecting a long wait (mind you not this long), so I bought a gap filler by buying a V12. At the time, I thought it was a safe bet based on all the online accolades. Big mistake. As a gap filler, it turned out to be a lemon. However, on hindsight, as a commuting wheel, it turned out well, if I were to exclude the headaches I had to deal with. But unknown to me at the time, this type of bad experiences is pretty normal in the euc world. Ironically, the Begode T3 just simply works with no complaints, albeit not as comfortable nor refined. It also isn't an early batch wheel. Well, so to speak. I think it is a second batch T3, but it is version 3 of the Gotway Tesla line.

OK, back to new wheels. 

First comes, the S22. I like this wheel, but I won't consider it until the slider system is replaced with a proper one (low stiction and not exposed to the elements), and the 126 V system is further developed to fulfill its promised 126V system performance potential. 

Next would be the Master. It is almost there. Second batch is sounding promising. Most likely I will get the second batch, if not later.

And lastly, the V13. This wheel is still on my radar. For me, it could have been my 2023 wheel purchase. However, if the new replacement driver boards for the V12 turned out to be also faulty, I will black list them. This show of utter incompetence is not acceptable to me. I am losing confidence in their technical expertise. This would probably mean I won't be buying the V13. But once they show that they can build reliable wheels, I will be back.

Since Begode acted like scoundrels in the LiTech debacle, I am hoping Kingsong can quickly turns things around to give me another choice.

[Planemo]

12 hours ago, DavidB said:

Hmm... not sure about the linkage design on the telegram link

Given that there are good reviews on the EX20S suspension I was wondering what it would be like on the Master. So I made a model about 92% the size of the EX20S links from some images from Begode

 

 

Then I measured the suspension travel to shock travel and plotted it out. Worked out pretty good with a 165mmm shock (as intended). 88mm suspension travel using 38mm (all the range on a DNM Airshock) of shock travel. Naturally the ratio was the same as the EX20S of 2.59 to 2.31:1

I don't know if a 165mm would be up for it but the measurements work out nice.

 

The video link by Tawpie on the Airshock negative chamber was great.

 

I admire your suspension investigation. Very few look at the data you have, especially re ratios.

Personally I would like to see more than 38mm shock travel on euc's. I understand the difficulties in doing this though. Many MTB's are around 3:1, which gives a lot more leeway in terms of available tuning.

Ratios and shock/wheel travel aside, coil is still my preferred choice. After all, negative was only implemented to reduce stiction (and is a very real problem), which doesnt exist with coil.

[jrhz06]

1 minute ago, Planemo said:

I admire your suspension investigation. Very few look at the data you have, especially re ratios.

Personally I would like to see more than 38mm shock travel on euc's. I understand the difficulties in doing this though. Many MTB's are around 3:1, which gives a lot more leeway in terms of available tuning.

Ratios and shock/wheel travel aside, coil is still my preferred choice. After all, negative was only implemented to reduce stiction (and is a very real problem), which doesnt exist with coil.

I believe that the S22 shock has 76 mm travel, not sure about the ratio.

[Tawpie]

8 minutes ago, jrhz06 said:

I believe that the S22 shock has 76 mm travel, not sure about the ratio.

S22 wheel travel is marketed at 130mm. Marketing also says the linkage is progressive, but I don't recall anyone confirming that with measurements. 

[GoGeorgeGo]

12 hours ago, Paul A said:

Maybe items likely to break should be included in original purchase package.

I think that would be a great idea if the part was actually designed and planned to react that way on purpose and wasnt just a random stroke of luck that it acted in such a way 🤣

I dont really think they intended for it to ever break even though in practice it may be an intelligent design

[Paul A]

GGG, great observations.

Better to have a cheaper, easily replaceable sacrificial part that broke cleanly, rather than one that bent, as reasoned very well.

If it wasn't by design, then perhaps it should be.  Other manufacturers might copy the idea.

It did require a lot of force and bottoming out to break the part.

Think BG should thank you for the astuteness.

[EMA]

"New material technology, better heat conduction of main board"

 

That's what the 2nd batch board is all about 🖖🏻

[conecones]

11 hours ago, EMA said:

"New material technology, better heat conduction of main board"

 

That's what the 2nd batch board is all about 🖖🏻

That's a relief. If they don't change the electronics then it would mean it's been reliable so far.

[Hansolo]

Very long video....

FR & EN subtitles available

 

 

[Paradox]

 

[Flying W]

Way to win! That was awesome 👌 

[Rollin-on-1]

On 6/2/2022 at 6:41 PM, Tawpie said:

S22 wheel travel is marketed at 130mm. Marketing also says the linkage is progressive, but I don't recall anyone confirming that with measurements. 

The shock itself is 76 mm.  The full travel of the suspension is supposed to be 130 mm due to the mechanics of the linkage.  But, I agree - I haven't seen anyone do the measurement on the full suspension travel yet.  At least not rhat I can recall.

[BlckRck2014]

Having rode the master for a day on chunky singletrack, I felt the travel was so much more than anything stated. Im sure its what the specs say, just that to the rider it doesn't feel short. 

[Wgm]

Yes, Master destroys s18 suspension with way less friction.  A little bouncier but I pumped to 300 and weigh 210 without gear.  And yes it bottoms out on bigger drops or stairs, not curbs tho which is all I rly need.   Not even much sag so I think I can reduce psi. 

Begode said I will need new board for the  flashing after turning off I mentioned.  But I can still use.   70 miles of joy so far.  Pad layout sucks for acceleration and braking hard, better than most stock tho.  But the thing is so powerful that at my weight and a good lean they aren't super necessary outside from a stop.  Braking needs way more input than an s18.  

Love it so far coming from S18/MSX.  Rides super high and it's real freaking heavy, also tire not great for tight turns or high speed turning.  Otherwise fun fun fun 😊.  Super smooth once your going.  Just stinks for alot of stop and go we have in the Philly streets.  Feels like I'm mounting a donkey.

Be careful pulling off paper of double sided tape on pads.  Pulled the whole thing off the pads and had to get new tape.

Also, probably the most overblown bit is probably the pedal dipping, which is nothing near bad when turning in my opinion.  I also enjoy medium mode, gonna try soft.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Wgm

[No1up]

4 hours ago, Wgm said:

Yes, Master destroys s18 suspension with way less friction.  A little bouncier but I pumped to 300 and weigh 210 without gear.  And yes it bottoms out on bigger drops or stairs, not curbs tho which is all I rly need.   Not even much sag so I think I can reduce psi. 

Begode said I will need new board for the  flashing after turning off I mentioned.  But I can still use.   70 miles of joy so far.  Pad layout sucks for acceleration and braking hard, better than most stock tho.  But the thing is so powerful that at my weight and a good lean they aren't super necessary outside from a stop.  Braking needs way more input than an s18.  

Love it so far coming from S18/MSX.  Rides super high and it's real freaking heavy, also tire not great for tight turns or high speed turning.  Otherwise fun fun fun 😊.  Super smooth once your going.  Just stinks for alot of stop and go we have in the Philly streets.  Feels like I'm mounting a donkey.

Be careful pulling off paper of double sided tape on pads.  Pulled the whole thing off the pads and had to get new tape.

Also, probably the most overblown bit is probably the pedal dipping, which is nothing near bad when turning in my opinion.  I also enjoy medium mode, gonna try soft.

A really fast donkey.. 

[Wgm]

Is there a trick to increasing the friction on the pedals, they keep flopping down.  I maxed out the tightness in the one grub screw or whatever.

[redfoxdude]

5 hours ago, Wgm said:

Is there a trick to increasing the friction on the pedals, they keep flopping down.  I maxed out the tightness in the one grub screw or whatever.

That middle grub screw locks the axle in place, and the two screws at the ends of the axle have plastic friction discs that provide resistance for holding the pedal up. Since you have the middle one tight, I'd try tightening the ones at the ends.

Edited June 7, 2022 by redfoxdude

[CaptainPT]

On 6/2/2022 at 1:33 AM, Rawnei said:

Wow with all those improvements from Begode it seems like early batch buyers got bamboozled.

That’s what’s making me worried about buying an EX20S right now. I don’t want to get one now and then a month or two later it have improvements that I wont be able to get my hands on. 

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, CaptainPT said:

That’s what’s making me worried about buying an EX20S right now. I don’t want to get one now and then a month or two later it have improvements that I wont be able to get my hands on. 

Don't worry, just buy it, in a few months they will stop producing it and move on to the next model anyway. 😉😂

Jokes aside I understand completely where you're coming from.

[techyiam]

5 hours ago, CaptainPT said:

That’s what’s making me worried about buying an EX20S right now. I don’t want to get one now and then a month or two later it have improvements that I wont be able to get my hands on. 

In our wonderful world of EUC'S, history has shown that, time after time, later batches have almost always been better. But the conundrum here is that by the time a new wheel has matured, do you still want to buy it over a newer wheel. Case in point, at smartwheel.ca right now, the EX.N and the Master are priced at approximately C$3100, and C$3300 respectively. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by techyiam

[Unipilot69]

8 hours ago, CaptainPT said:

That’s what’s making me worried about buying an EX20S right now. I don’t want to get one now and then a month or two later it have improvements that I wont be able to get my hands on. 

At least with the design of the Master and EX20S they're plenty of ways to diy improvements. Since the release of the RS it seems Begode uses the same motors (C30, C38) for most of their new releases. Same goes for the control board (except the Master). My Monster Pro has the smaller bearings and the windings look like the same size as my RS. With the other models the rim sizes are the same.