Begode Master 134V 2400WH Suspension

[techyiam]

16 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Wow with all those improvements from Begode it seems like early batch buyers got bamboozled.

I guess manufacturers get criticized no matter what they do. If they go out and fix the issues and improved on the first batch, somebody will say:

Quote

it seems like early batch buyers got bamboozled.

But if they don't improved on the batch then the manufacturers will be accused of not fixing the problems. 

In all the while, everyone who preorders first batches knows the risks. Even second batch is risky. How can anyone not know this. It happens to every new wheel.

On the contrary, I think it is great that Begode is standing strong behind what could turn out to be a great wheel. I hope that they continue to improve on it aggressively. Let face it, the first, and second batch buyers will continue to exist, and they would know that later batches will mostly likely be better.

Actually, what piss off early batch buyers is when the manufacturers don't fix the problems. If a manufacturer fixes the issues, and in addition make things nicer, I certainly wouldn't complain. I would do the opposite, and reward them with another purchase in the future. Of course it would be ideal if they get it right on the first batch. But unfortunately reality is very, very far from this.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by techyiam

[Kutvis]

9 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Are we still talking about eWheels? 

Nope, but EU reseller. As the info is given in emails instead of their web page I'll keep the details to myself for now.

Finnish riders know in our Discord

[Rawnei]

46 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I guess manufacturers get criticized no matter what they do. If they go out to fix the issues and improved on the first batch, somebody will say:

But if they don't improved on the batch then the manufacturers will be accused of not fixing the problems. 

In all the while, everyone who preorders first batches knows the risks. Even second batch is risky. How can anyone not know this. It happens to every new wheel.

On the contrary, I think it is great that Begode is standing strong behind what could turn out to be a great wheel. I hope that they continue to improve on it aggressively. Let face it, the first, second and batch buyers will continue to exist, and they would know that later batches will mostly likely be better.

Actually, what piss off early batch buyers is when the manufacturers don't fix the problems. If a manufacturer fixes the issues, and in addition make things nicer, I certainly wouldn't complain. I would do the opposite, and reward them with another purchase in the future. Of course it would be ideal if they get it right on the first batch. But unfortunately reality is very, very far from this.

 

That's your interpretation, another way to interpret it is that they need to improve testing so they would find all these things before customers get the product, one way of doing it is sending out demo wheels like other manufactures do.

[techyiam]

19 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

they need to improve testing so they would find all these things before customers get the product, one way of doing it is sending out demo wheels like other manufactures do.

You mean like Inmotion V11, and V12. Oh yeah, Kingsong S18 too. They got those right, didn't they, right out of the gate. I guess  my V12 has no issues at all.

And early indication is that the S22 will have the same exposed, high stiction sliders, and performance compromised 126V system. And the Veteran Abrams. Those were perfect. Those who complained must be delusional. 

 

[Rawnei]

8 minutes ago, techyiam said:

You mean like Inmotion V11, and V12. Oh yeah, Kingsong S18 too. They got those right, didn't they, right out of the gate. I guess  my V12 has no issues at all.

And early indication is that the S22 will have the same exposed, high stiction sliders, and performance compromised 126V system. And the Veteran Abrams. Those were perfect. Those who complained must be delusional. 

 

Lots of things on both V12 and S20/22 was found during demo period and fixed for production versions. V12 issue with mosfet was not found during demo period it was discovered a bit after production wheel was out, S22 sliders riders have complained but King Song choose not to change the design probably because it's such an integral part of the whole wheel. LaperKim don't send out demo wheels they work like Begode and test everything themselves.

You seem to look at things in black and white, like testing by riders in unnecessary because they wont find all flaws and all flaws found wont be fixed?

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

Lots of things on both V12 and S20/22 was found during demo period and fixed for production versions. V12 issue with mosfet was not found during demo period it was discovered a bit after production wheel was out,

As it turned out, the V12 issue was due to under spec'd mosfets. In Hsiang V12 review video, there was a rider who was doing a pendulum while holding onto something, and all of a sudden, the V12 cutout. Unfortunately, it was hastily dismissed. The designers at Inmotion actually deliberately chose to use an under spec'd part.

Fact, even now buyers are facing issues when buying new V11's. The V12's too. The reality is that buyers will continue to face issues when buying early batches, no exceptions. Maybe the Begode Hero is an exception. 

On top of that, EEVEES's data show the least warrant service they have to provide is for Begode wheels. The most, that would be Inmotion. Go figure.

 

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

S22 sliders riders have complained but King Song choose not to change the design probably because it's such an integral part of the whole wheel.

What is crazy is that Inmotion and Kingsong are screwing up at the fundamental design level. These are huge pitfalls. Not easy fixes.

 

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

LaperKim don't send out demo wheels they work like Begode and test everything themselves.

And guess what, their new wheels have issues like everyone else. 

And the point is, the reality is that no matter which company you go with, the likelyhood of later batches being better than early batches is extremely high.

So why would anyone think otherwise.

 

3 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Wow with all those improvements from Begode it seems like early batch buyers got bamboozled.

[DavidB]

17 hours ago, redfoxdude said:

On the Master Telegram group =) https://t.me/begode_master/10528

That makes sense that the EX20S would feel more progressive - the air shock will provide a progressive ramp in spring rate at the end of the travel, which the EX20S can reach, but the Master cannot. They apparently use the same shock, and the EX20S can essentially fully compress the shock, while the Master only compresses it to about half of the stroke.

Hmm... not sure about the linkage design on the telegram link

Given that there are good reviews on the EX20S suspension I was wondering what it would be like on the Master. So I made a model about 92% the size of the EX20S links from some images from Begode

 

 

Then I measured the suspension travel to shock travel and plotted it out. Worked out pretty good with a 165mmm shock (as intended). 88mm suspension travel using 38mm (all the range on a DNM Airshock) of shock travel. Naturally the ratio was the same as the EX20S of 2.59 to 2.31:1

I don't know if a 165mm would be up for it but the measurements work out nice.

 

The video link by Tawpie on the Airshock negative chamber was great.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by DavidB

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

And the point is, the reality is that no matter which company you go with, the likelyhood of later batches being better than early batches is extremely high.

Yes on this we agree and that's why I am saying there needs to be better testing, and same point you are making about big flaws it's the same on the Master, batch 1 buyers will be riding a wheel with a lot of flaws.

I don't think we should excuse any manufacturer from this, that's just a way of rationalizing the unfortunate reality we're facing that we are beta or even in some cases alpha testers of these wheels, it shouldn't be like that.

[techyiam]

53 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

I don't think we should excuse any manufacturer from this, that's just a way of rationalizing the unfortunate reality we're facing that we are beta or even in some cases alpha testers of these wheels, it shouldn't be like that.

We may not like what we are experiencing, but we are certainly not giving the manufacturers the squeeze to improve initial quality. For example, are you for certain that the first production batch of the S22 is going to be issue free. No right. But yet you have it on preorder. Can you tell me what is a better way to get through to the manufacturers that we no longer will tolerate poorly designed and poorly put together first batch wheels than to simply not buy them. With businesses, money and profits talk. Nothing else seem to matter.

However, this will never happen. There are too just too many people who are willing to put up with it.

[Paul A]

If nobody purchases a first batch wheel......would manufacturers produce a second batch at all?

[conecones]

The only item on the list of changes that we should be concerned about is the "New Motherboard Technology (Major Upgrade)". Does anyone know anything about this? Stuff like handles, pads, screws, fenders, shocks, are so minor in comparison and comes with the territory of buying a Begode wheel regardless of what batch.

[Tawpie]

50 minutes ago, conecones said:

"New Motherboard Technology (Major Upgrade)"

I saw a report that alluded to use of Aluminum to improve cooling.

[Tawpie]

5 hours ago, DavidB said:

Naturally the ratio was the same as the EX20S of 2.59 to 2.31:1

Thank you for this! The EX20S (and probably Master) linkages are pretty linear, so as was mentioned very early (somewhere), you're going to need to reduce the volume in the compression chamber if you're going to stop it from bottoming out. Or find a softer material for the bumper so the bottom isn't quite as sudden. @GoGeorgeGo broke his EX20S on a pothole, that had to be because the suspension bottomed out and there was nowhere for the impact force to go but onto that connecting rod.

[GoGeorgeGo]

19 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Thank you for this! The EX20S (and probably Master) linkages are pretty linear, so as was mentioned very early (somewhere), you're going to need to reduce the volume in the compression chamber if you're going to stop it from bottoming out. Or find a softer material for the bumper so the bottom isn't quite as sudden. @GoGeorgeGo broke his EX20S on a pothole, that had to be because the suspension bottomed out and there was nowhere for the impact force to go but onto that connecting rod.

1000% it bottomed out . I thought i destroyed my rim for sure lol

My bolt seems to be holding for now though while i wait for a replacement linkage rod 

[Paul A]

Maybe items likely to break should be included in original purchase package.

[RagingGrandpa]

9 hours ago, Rawnei said:

it seems like early batch buyers got bamboozled.

Like always!  

[Mango]

Coming soon…

https://www.instagram.com/p/CeTqDR_hESZ/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[supercurio]

@Paul A it makes me wonder if a non-suspension wheel would have broken down much more parts @GoGeorgeGo's incident.
Rim first, pedal hangers, axle if any? Whereas a good chunk of the energy was dissipated by the shock and its attachment point when it broke.

[Paul A]

Would be great to see Kuji back.

[meepmeepmayer]

11 hours ago, Wolverine said:

Nice! Say what you want about Begode, but they iterate hard and fast.

Now if they could fix the brittle top box of the Master (waterproofing included) and add some proper lights...

[Paul A]

SC, would seem likely from the reasoning.

Yes, a non suspension wheel would have all the impact force borne by the axle and rim.

Members on the forum may be able to share experiences of hitting pot holes and damage to verify.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Paul A

[Wgm]

Just got my master from boat shipping.  First batch issues already.   It worked fine until I charged it full.  Now it wont turn off all the way.  The screen and headlight flashes.   Any idea how to fix?

 

Update:. I just held the lift switch button for a second or two and it stopped flashing.  Hopefully this is resolved, but I'm guessing its just the start.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Wgm

[DjPanJan]

 

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Wgm said:

Any idea how to fix?

no idea... and I'd be reluctant to ride it (charge-to-full-causes-weirdness could be a battery problem). Some BG wheels would factory reset if you lift-spin it forward to shutdown, then power cycle (I think, check the inter webs) and then lift-spin it in reverse to shutdown. Possibly worth a try.

Call your reseller?

Edited June 2, 2022 by Tawpie

[Paul A]

Trying to DIY fix a problem might make things worse, permanently damage, injuries to self, void warranty etc.

Maybe have the retailer send out a replacement one that they have tested to ensure it works, have them pay for the return freight.

Perhaps onus should not be on the customer to fix a brand new wheel.