redfoxdude Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, zeroSIXzero said: Anyone WITH the Master who can do some measurements? First of all I would like a top photo and measurements of the seat. Width, length and so on. But also battery pack? And width between the packs for at new headlamp. Also curious, for potential headlight alternatives/mods. A measurement I'm really interested in as well is the actual used stroke of the shock. I understand that it takes a 190mm eye-to-eye shock, most of which have a 50mm stroke, but what I want to know is how much of the stroke is really used. I suspect it's closer to 40mm (This would explain why we need such high pressure in the stock shock, or high rate springs for coils). If anyone could measure how much stroke is actually used, that would be awesome and help a lot with figuring out coil spring rate calculations. Edited May 17, 2022 by redfoxdude 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 had a confirmation that master final beep is now set at 80% output, in the future can be set to 75% with app 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kutvis Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 On 5/17/2022 at 12:41 PM, zeroSIXzero said: Anyone WITH the Master who can do some measurements? First of all I would like a top photo and measurements of the seat. Width, length and so on. But also battery pack? And width between the packs for at new headlamp. I would also be interested on battery casing and seat measurements. Planning on PUR-foam paddings (sound isloation mat) + tape with velcro. Would be lovely to manufacture these while waiting the wheel Set for batteries Widen the area for pads. Create extra bumper for crash. Create extra protection for the suspension Isolation for cold weather riding. "Seat" Extra bumper attached on top of seat, this will protect original padding + lights from crashes Light lid Raise seated riding height Protection for the suspension More stuff to burn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Taras Posted May 20, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) text teardown:https://ecodrift-ru.translate.goog/2022/05/21/begode-master-razbiraem/?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp video (switch on eng subs): Edited May 20, 2022 by Kingsong Russia 5 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post meepmeepmayer Posted May 20, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2022 Half of this wheel makes me want to buy it RIGHT NOW, and half of this wheel makes me think I'm not paying 3000 for that crap. The buzzer inside the battery packs that warns of overheating and errors is pretty cool!! 2 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enaon Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: The buzzer inside the battery packs that warns of overheating and errors is pretty cool!! was this on the ecodrift's teardown video? Edited May 20, 2022 by enaon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Taras Posted May 20, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, enaon said: was this on the ecodrift's teardown video? no.. look to the end of text version Edited May 20, 2022 by Kingsong Russia 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: Half of this wheel makes me want to buy it RIGHT NOW, and half of this wheel makes me think I'm not paying 3000 for that crap. There's some really nice work in there! The top casting is quite something... it's still a sugar cookie, but impressive. So is their solution to getting heat out of the dPak-7s—I'm pretty sure the soldered standoffs are soldered because they're part of the thermal path to the casting. 18 mm of shock travel (4:1 ratio) must be why they had to have a custom shock. And why it rides so well, but bottoms out so readily. It is a mystery why they raised the pedals so high and left so much structure hanging down below. I'm pretty sure catching the hanger is what threw ChanceH, it looks like a hanger-clip will be something to be very aware of. Steer for the middle of the pothole, not the edge! Edited May 20, 2022 by Tawpie 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 54 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: The buzzer inside the battery packs that warns of overheating and errors is pretty cool!! I like that the beeper can alert of overheating (not sure how common) and solder breaking for one cell group to the BMS, without having to fail later on during charging with unpredictable results. An key feature missing for these alerts (assumption based on the fact it was not demonstrated) is cell group over-volting condition, as it has now been observed on 900 Wh packs up to 4.5V Some good ideas, apparently still missing communication capability with the mainboard to prevent riding on error conditions. But the beeper might do the trick in some cases. 6 MOSFETs with the reference G050N13. Is it HYG050N13NS1? Datasheet: http://www.szhxmos.com/uploads/soft/2101/HYG050N13NS1P.pdf 135V/200A on a 33.6V pack, I'm not sure I understand. With 6 of them and from the PCB we can see, is it still only about charging or also capable of controlling output power? (I'm guessing not) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Guesses on why the varistor on the control board? Those things degrade with use so if it's there to deal with routine events, it won't do so for very long. Seems an odd component to cold solder to the board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enaon Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Kingsong Russia said: no.. look to the end of text version nice, so it has a buzzer and temp probes, it should have a "thanks for the gift LiTech" sticker. Edited May 21, 2022 by enaon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfoxdude Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 7 hours ago, Tawpie said: 18 mm of shock travel (4:1 ratio) must be why they had to have a custom shock. And why it rides so well, but bottoms out so readily. They said 25mm, maaaaybe 27mm if they're pushing it with compressing the orings. 18mm being the distance from 30% sag to bottom out. The suspension is apparently 75mm, so it's approximately a 2.8:1 ratio, still really high. I suspect this was the cost of getting the linkage so compact in the frame. I wish it was a lower ratio like King Song's, as I'm also concerned about the forces involved in the Master's linkage. Those bushings are gonna be stressed. Maybe custom linkages will start to be a thing. They also confirmed what I had been suspecting from some estimations I was working on - the suspension's linkage has a roughly linear response. So yeah, an air shock with small volume is probably the best way to avoid bottoming out. Also need to remember that it's a short travel, you can't have soft and plush AND lots of bottom out resistance with a short travel. I don't do huge jumps, so it's probably enough for someone like me, but worth considering for folks. It's super cool to see Begode's developments here! Not all the safety stuff we want and need, but baby steps. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 (edited) That's ridiculously low travel, much lower than the 80mm most people were expecting, changing dampener like some people already did/plan to do will mostly be a waste of money and wont improve this factor. "The reverse side of the wing is used for an information sticker, where you are warned that life is pain." 😂😂 Edited May 21, 2022 by Rawnei 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 (edited) Btw that buzzer on the battery packs is very interesting, but a thought occurred to me how will it work in practice? If there is a problem will it just beep in eternity until you get sick of it and throw the wheel out of the window or will you have some way to shut it off? Only work when wheel is on or what? So many questions. In the video it just beeps forever when he de-solders a contact and the pack is not plugged in, the thought is good but this is going to drive people insane when it happens. Edited May 21, 2022 by Rawnei 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 On 5/21/2022 at 9:32 AM, redfoxdude said: They said 25mm, maaaaybe 27mm if they're pushing it with compressing the orings. 18mm being the distance from 30% sag to bottom out. The suspension is apparently 75mm, so it's approximately a 2.8:1 ratio, still really high. I suspect this was the cost of getting the linkage so compact in the frame. I wish it was a lower ratio like King Song's, as I'm also concerned about the forces involved in the Master's linkage. Those bushings are gonna be stressed. Maybe custom linkages will start to be a thing. They also confirmed what I had been suspecting from some estimations I was working on - the suspension's linkage has a roughly linear response. So yeah, an air shock with small volume is probably the best way to avoid bottoming out. Also need to remember that it's a short travel, you can't have soft and plush AND lots of bottom out resistance with a short travel. I don't do huge jumps, so it's probably enough for someone like me, but worth considering for folks. It's super cool to see Begode's developments here! Not all the safety stuff we want and need, but baby steps. where this 25mm shock travel comes from ? any link pls ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 24 minutes ago, EMA said: where this 25mm shock travel comes from ? any link pls ? It's from the ecodrift teardown, and it's the travel of the dampener https://ecodrift-ru.translate.goog/2022/05/21/begode-master-razbiraem/?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 On 4/14/2022 at 4:53 PM, Chriull said: At a first glance a https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/power/mosfet/n-channel/ipb044n15n5/ has very nice parameters - but did not really look into details by now, nor looked at other such mosfets or d2pak-7 package limits. Edit: this is just a randomly picked mosfet - no idea which mosfet is used for the master You guessed right! Looks great to me: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanman Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 (edited) @RagingGrandpa mind sharing that MOSFET spreadsheet? I'm sure several of us would find it quite interesting and like to contribute. Or is that everything in the screenshot? Edited May 23, 2022 by chanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 48 minutes ago, chanman said: mind sharing that MOSFET spreadsheet? Sure. More entries are welcome:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Kg6yJ7cREt_L2POUE-OQA5hls5Zguwtz/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=103589734469719588261&rtpof=true&sd=true 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeforester Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DavidB Posted May 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2022 (edited) Redfoxdude was interested in the travel. Someone on the Master telegram group measured it and found it to be pretty linear. Kind of defeating the whole linkage idea and explaining why it bottoms out. Max suspension travel was 75mm with about 5mm taken up by rubber O ring, so probably 72mm (?) with O ring compression. Max shock travel was (with stock linkage) quite small at 24mm. I plotted it out for a visual. y-axis suspension travel, x-axis shock travel. (Raw data: shock/suspension 03mm/ 10mm, 06mm/20mm, 09mm/30mm, 12mm/40mm, 16mm/50mm, 20mm/60mm, 24mm/70mm) Eco drift was wondering why they didn't use the EX20 suspension which they felt was better. Edited May 24, 2022 by DavidB 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfoxdude Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Thanks! Can't help but feel like Begode just designed it this way for the compact look, but didn't really consider what the leverage ratio implies for folks that weigh more than their test riders. The linear curve could be more forgivable if it actually utilized the full stroke of the shock to take advantage of the progressive rate of the air spring, but it's Begode I also saw some of the alternative linkage design ideas being tossed around, with lower leverage ratios and more progressive rate (maybe?). I'd potentially be interested in getting something like those fabbed to really reduce the forces involved in the linkage, and get a progressive rate for improved bottom-out resistance with coils. I wonder if anyone has measured the curve of the S20/22? Would be neat to see, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Begode is a moving feast. It was interesting reading the Ecodrift comments on their EX20 and Master breakdowns. Basically the same parts but extra screws in somethings and less in others. Even with same model, just different batches. What I like most is these designs are not too difficult to mod if thats what you want. Although, some things are a puzzle. Painted stainless steel plate between sliders above wheels. Why not plastic? Fraction of the weight and really an not an exposed part. Also steel plate above the shock under seat when there is already alloy cross brace. I guess for reinforcing, You'd think they could just make the ally thicker and fill the gaps but maybe the cast alloy cracked in those trips down those 50 degree hills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EMA Posted May 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2022 considering the low shock travel we'll need to add some air volume spacer in the shock to make it work better 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Freeforester Posted May 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2022 From Kevin: 1 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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