Begode Master 134V 2400WH Suspension

[chanman]

1 hour ago, Wolverine said:

He mentioned that there were concerns that this wheel will cutoff if one battery or one bms fails, but this is not really the case. All of those batteries are always connected to the motherboard, so if one bms fails you are still able to discharge the batteries (read no cutoff), all thought you won’t be able to charge it.

 

I haven't seen anything to indicate this, we know the packs are in series, which would imply that one bms failing would be a problem. Even if the other 3 packs are somehow able to discharge you're operating at 3/4ths voltage suddenly, which if you're at high speed already is an instant overlean.

[techyiam]

10 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

I just can't help thinking that if its a performance wheel you want performance suspension and no road sports motorcycle or car suspension is soft. 

You do realize that unlike a motorcycle, there is no handlebar to hold on to, or unlike a race car, you don't get strapped down with a 6-point seat belt. On an euc, you don't just get a jolt, you may get bucked off at the same time.

I do understand that you wouldn't want an under damped suspension system, but there is nothing wrong with a complaint suspension that is not over damped.

Edited May 16, 2022 by techyiam

[SamSuffit]

6 hours ago, PourUC said:

I ride motorbikes. I can garuntee that none of my gloves will fit over a set of wrist braces. I have all kinds from thin summer gloves, to heated winter gloves. The best you can do is mtb gloves under near a set of wrist braces. Unless you specifically buy gloves which don't fit you that is.

Maybe you can try this: https://www.gyroriderz.com/products/gants-gyroriderz-avec-proteges-poignets-integres-2-0?lang=en&variant=31578219937846

[UniMe]

wow.... Adam is such a skilled rider.

Pedal dipping in turns... that's my RS HT all the way.

Street tire, slightly lower pedals, that's an EUC that would inevitably get me into trouble in the city... zoom zoom!!! It's 50kmh everywhere here...

[supercurio]

2 hours ago, chanman said:

I haven't seen anything to indicate this, we know the packs are in series, which would imply that one bms failing would be a problem. Even if the other 3 packs are somehow able to discharge you're operating at 3/4ths voltage suddenly, which if you're at high speed already is an instant overlean.

Nuance tho, what would be required is one pack to fail, not one BMS.

Begode BMS are only handling charging and balancing, the output side is more like a dumb pack.

It doesn't mean that it can't fail, but it's a loss less likely.

Edited May 15, 2022 by supercurio

[chanman]

BMS can I believe cut off the pack if bad things (tm) are detected, maybe begode's is dumb enough not to do that though. Regardless the point seemed to be that the somehow the connection to the motherboard allows for individual pack discharge despite being wired in series, which I find unlikely, most likely the connection to the board is data only for BMS reporting or the like.

[TheseusMinor]

If I was in charge, I'd revamp the design of all Begode wheels to look like the Master. The Tesla would look like the Master with only one headlight, no suspension and space for speakers. The RS would look like the Master with two headlights and no suspension. ...and so on; and also limit their offerings to be no more than a handful of distinct-category wheels with the consistent design language from the Master.

[Unipilot69]

The Extreme Bull X-Men (X-Max) or whatever they decide to name it is an open design RS. AliExpress has them listed. Maybe they will hit all of the "local" distributors this year.

[The Brahan Seer]

16 hours ago, techyiam said:

You do realize that unlike a motorcycle, there is no handlebar to hold on to, or unlike a race car, you don't get strapped down with a 6-point seat belt. On an euc, you don't just get a jolt, you may get bucked off at the same time.

I do understand that you wouldn't want an under damped suspension system, but there is nothing wrong with a complaint suspension that is not over damped.

This is a very good point.  I suppose its down to preference a lot too. I like my S18 suspension to be pretty hard and haven't had any issues with coming off.  I haven't tried the Master, maybe it will surprise me and my concerns are non founded. Is the risk from being bounced off from poor suspension greater than being bucked off by good? But I guess a lot of the performance of the suspension is also down to the skill level of the rider which has a lot more physical impact than on bikes and cars.

[RagingGrandpa]

Helmet certifications are a complex topic not directly related to Begod...
Further discussion split to our Helmet Thread. Please continue helmet stuff there.

 

On 5/14/2022 at 1:03 PM, Paul A said:

Predator helmets appear to be for skateboards.  Chin bar may not be sufficiently strong enough for high speed impacts.

DH6-Xg

In stock

$395.00

• Meets CPSC bicycle standard and is CE-1078 certified for bicycles and skateboards

[DavidB]

On 5/15/2022 at 1:13 PM, techyiam said:

I think you might be right. I do see now that he lost control also immediately after going over a transverse crack in the road where weeds have grown in. It does seem plausible that the bump could have caused the Master to pedal dip, and consequently alarming Andrew to panic and bail. Interesting that the Master being a relatively cushy wheel wasn't enough to circumvent the pedal dipping.

Gutsy guy. A relatively new rider to be exploring the speed limit of a 134V wheel on a road that is not super smooth, and perhaps not having a good underlying understanding of the pwm margins of the inverters on the Master, and the related battery pack discharge characteristics?

bump caused the Master to pedal dip, and consequently alarming Andrew to panic and bail.

I must say to me it did look like Andrew bailed. The fact Andrew and Jimmy said the wheel was still on when they found it did suggest it wasn't a cut-off yet that is what 99% of the comments on YT state. I have seen others thrown from wheels on straight roads due to wobbles not cut-off. Anyway it was an interesting video for many reasons.

I am glad Andrew was not hurt. He seems a big guy so the wind drag with him standing at 45mph/73kmh would be considerable. Adam (Wrongway) looks significantly smaller/lighter and tends to sit at speed in his Master video so he would not have the same issue.

I was also surprised Jimmy was poking the naked exposed post-crash control board with his fingers. He is normally so safety conscious. I certainly would not be doing that. 134volts is a fair wack.

Clearly both the S20/22 and Master show more thought needs to go into crash protection. The prototype handle of the S20 was so brittle whilst the Masters light housing is so strong it cracks the frame/control board housing. A rubber bumper would seem in order for both. Ditto for the rear. The nice part it should be an easy add-on with a design concept like this.

It will be interesting to see which batteries win out now that there are options. There seems a lot of conflicting claims as to which is best but when riders with different packs ride together they will quickly figure out which ones work best for the Master. I see Molicel now have P45B (low impedance) which are lighter and have 7% more capacity than P42A whilst they also have 22% lower internal resistance and fast charging (3C). No doubt they will regen way better than the LG50T so you may go further with less Wh.

Having less battery and fast recharging (whilst having a coffee break) is surely the way to go. My personal view is EUCs are getting too heavy. 100lbs of angular metal (EX20S) at 50mph will kill a pedestrian on impact.

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by DavidB
spelling

[Tawpie]

24 minutes ago, DavidB said:

Masters light housing is so strong it cracks the frame/control board housing

I'm thinking the cartwheel has it landing upside down on the "seat" area and that's what is cracking the frame. The pictures I've seen show the crack starting aft of the stanchion/slider. But it's six of one, half dozen of another… the cast frame isn't up to the forces encountered in a cartwheel crash.

[DavidB]

8 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I'm thinking the cartwheel has it landing upside down on the "seat" area and that's what is cracking the frame. The pictures I've seen show the crack starting aft of the stanchion/slider. But it's six of one, half dozen of another… the cast frame isn't up to the forces encountered in a cartwheel crash.

I made the assumption based on the lights being smashed down towards the tire. There are some curious decisions. The pads are so thick and cushy but the rubberised protection on top is thin. Surely some thicker dense EVA on top of the MB would help.

I still like the concept. It could evolve into something really nice V2 etc eg height adjust pedals, better lights etc

 

[Paul A]

 

[Paul A]

 

[chanman]

Bail vs cut off is sort of a moot point if the bailing is due to the wheel dipping forward hard to the point where it's unlikely to be recoverable. Either way its an overlean resulting in crash. Looks to me like pretty severe forward pedal dip in the video, but I'm not experienced enough with pushing the limits (and I don't intend to be) to say whether it would be recoverable.

[Freeforester]

10 hours ago, DavidB said:

the Masters light housing is so strong it cracks the frame/control board housing.

Might be one area where soft screws are welcome? If the fixings for the lights were designed to give before the frame, this would be possibly rather more welcome than a frame replacement. Possible to have nylon or other plastic type screws or rivets there, one pair to affix, the others to permit the light to retain its adjustability?

[Paul A]

Duf comments that the Master battery dropped from 90% to 60% for 7 miles.

Time mark 7.50

[gon2fast]

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

battery dropped from 90% to 60% for 7 miles

Not good, but keep in mind that the 100V MSX 1230wh model set a new standard that some are still trying to implement. A year from now who knows what we will be picking apart, hopefully not long range 134V options.

Edited May 17, 2022 by gon2fast

[zeroSIXzero]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:18 AM, BleepBloopBlop said:

The new BMS on Begode packs are current limited on charging. 

Wich Begode BMS?.... the Begode one or the Litech one. They are different.

[EMA]

4 hours ago, Paul A said:

Duf comments that the Master battery dropped from 90% to 60% for 7 miles.

Time mark 7.50

means nothing without data...

WrongWay done 97km with 31kmh avg  <-- 

[Miko.cz]

17 minutes ago, EMA said:

means nothing without data...

WrongWay done 97km with 31kmh avg  <-- 

exactly, but all these ranges (including WW) are a bit limited info without - weight, terrain, terrain profile, temperature, rider style aggresivity, wind, some EUCW record etc.

[EMA]

31kmh avg is pretty high for a 97km trip, in a mixed city environment means you are cruising at 45-50kmh . it's really promising imho

[Miko.cz]

I agree it is, generaly. Im saying its just not a simple. A lot of YT just say the final number without other data. I see it on my small 680Wh battery in KS-16S, same mixed track to cottage and destination can be reach with 29% of battery left or even unable to finish the route.

[zeroSIXzero]

Anyone WITH the Master who can do some measurements?

First of all I would like a top photo and measurements of the seat. Width, length and so on.

But also battery pack? And width between the packs for at new headlamp.