THE HELMET THREAD

[h00ktern]

I have some input that no one has yet to mention:

I'm essentially an old bald fart, and I wear a 7idp Carbon Project 23 in S. Florida. I don't notice the heat as much as I thought I would. I do worry that all those vents are going to leave me with matching sunburn patches that I will need to hide with a baseball cap when I get back from a day time ride 

[conecones]

6 hours ago, Paul A said:

Have Demon wrist guards with the Velcro strap cut off.  Leather gloves fit over the wrist guards. 

Makes it easier to put on/off when fingers are needed for touch screens.

 

Full grain leather motorcycle suit is worth the cost.  They fit properly, are comfortable, all over proper protection, properly secured to remain in place.

Lazy Rolling gear seems to be inadequate then.

EUC speeds are so high that motorcycle level protection seems required.

_____________

Am glad he was able to walk away.

He was very fortunate in this particular event.

The next crash may not be so fortuitous.

A small bit of road rash may not be the extent of injury next time.

A helmet that is only certified for skateboarding is immensely inadequate.

The gear is fine. The take away is poor judgement as noted in the video. No amount of fancy expensive gear will make up for that.

I think you're reading too much into the certifications - a helmet that is not DOT rated does not automatically make it "immensely inadequate". The predator is a proven product based on years of actual use - this data is more useful than some lab test cert. Professional road cyclists hit over 80km/h wearing spandex and 200g helmets. Chin protection is just not as big of a factor as you might think - it is actually very hard to fall directly on your chin because it is so close to your neck (acting as a fulcrum) the whiplash you get when going down causes hardest impact to the forehead/back of head. There is a reason half lids are acceptable for motorcycle riding on the road, but not the case offroad - in this case you need the chin protection because of trees/rocks/falls at height - furthermore those helmets with huge chin bars should be paired with a neck brace or it could cause more damage than good.

To put out a bit of an obtuse argument - I would actually support overall gearing up LESS in the EUC community - I often see people way over-geared as a way to make up for skill or confidence, thinking spending more money will save them from injury. Wearing less gear will teach responsible riding behaviour faster than anything. Ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.

[Paul A]

The use of off road helmets, with the extended chin bars, on the road is strange.

The non contact space between chin bar and chin, might be problematic in a higher speed frontal impact.

The head is not fully restrained.

If the head and neck moves forward within the helmet on impact, the chin strap is going to inflict severe blunt force trauma on the trachea/windpipe.  Akin to decapitation.

 

Road helmets do not have the extended chin bar and space.  The padded chin bar is in contact with the chin.  Upon impact, there would be little forward head movement within and relative to the helmet.

 

The extended, jutting out chin bar might perversely be increasing the likelihood of contact with road, and injuries.

Designed and suitable for off road conditions, perhaps not as apt for higher speed on road conditions.

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, conecones said:

There is a reason half lids are acceptable for motorcycle riding on the road

Keep in mind that an EUC fall is different than one on a motorcycle—it happens very very very quickly and you will almost certainly pitch forward. If you don't have time to turn your head, or if you don't catch a foot and start a body turn, everything is pushing your face toward the ground. A good solid chin bar is a good idea, even when you're not going 40+ mph.

I do sort of agree with you that our gear can instill an elevated sense of immortality and for some people less might actually be more. But for me; old, slow to heal and allergic to rehab… I'm good with trying to buy insurance with high cost high "spec" gear. So far, it has served me well and I swear by it. Without my 'good' gear there's no way I'd be riding at all. Not even the MTen.

[litewave]

On 5/14/2022 at 6:55 PM, Paul A said:

Different models/design of Demon wrist guards.

Would not be able to cut straps off Andrew's.

 

 

 

Look again.

The wristguards that Andrew was wearing in the video are Flexmeter Wrist Guard Double Sided D3O, which, in my opinion, are the gold standard in the EUC community. Your photos are not the same as the ones he was wearing. The straps most definitely can  but should not be cut-off. I would invite you to call or email Demon Customer Service and quote their response before giving this advice to the forum. I have owned six pair and have used that model for more than five years. I have crashed many times with these wristguards with absolutely no physical damage to my lower arms wrists or forearms because the straps were tightly secured.

On 5/14/2022 at 6:55 PM, Paul A said:

The following statements indicate the design, intended use and applications, might not be adequate for EUC high speeds.

• the worst, and quite common longboard skateboarding impacts are slap downs to the back of head.

• INTENDED USE: The Pass helmet with visor is intended for downhill skateboarding or downhill biking use only. The visor is intended to provide protection from wind, dirt, mud, sun and impact. Do not use this visor on road when driving.

• APPLICATIONS: The TSG Pass helmets are designed for use in non-motorized recreational sports such as skateboarding and pedal cycling. All TSG helmets fully comply with international safety regulations.

Uh, longboards and downhill mountain bikes have been hitting 60+ mph for years. According to Wikipedia, the current land speed record for longboarding is 91.17mph.

EUCs are still (much) slower and are just now getting close to 50mph.

As for the TSG Pass helmets, ASTM's F1952 Downhill Standard is more than up to the task.

I have reached out to Predator Helmets to inquire about the safety certification and rating for the DH6 product line. I will update this post when I get a response.

UPDATE

I received a response from Predator Helmets (MattK) less than 30 minutes after I emailed him. What a class act. Here is the response:

• The DH6-Xg has CE EN1385 the Europe standard for bicycle.  It also meets the USA standard for bicycle CPSC.  The CE standard is generally good as far as impact, coverage, etc... but the CPSC has a tougher impact standard than the CE.  As I remember ASTM F1952 is an easy standard to pass, but does have a chin guard test that is also passable even with injection molded ABS chin guards like on many recent lower price mountain bike helmets and some other crossover helmets like Ruroc, Nobleman - which fracture more easily when impacted - so to me are not real full face helmets.  Most high end helmets(like our DH6 series) use polymer resins reinforced with carbon or fiberglass that are stronger - especially in narrow sections like chin guards. Predator DH6-Xg has CE EN1078 For Europ Bike/skateboard and CPSC(legal bicycle requirement for USA and Skateboard for California and a few other USA states) Other popular EUC helmets do not meet CPSC.  I can only guess that their product did not pass it so chose to get other lower impact-test standard certifications.

10 hours ago, Eucner said:

EN1385 is not the European standard for bicycle helmets. It is "Helmets for canoeing". The bicycle standard is EN1078.

Despite all written distraction, Predator DH6 is not F1952 certified. The level of knowledge in this response is not at the level to be expected from professional helmet company.

 

UPDATE2

I received a follow-up response from Predator Helmets (MattK) after I shared the post above from EUCner. Here is the response:

• my mistake, 1385 is the CE for whitewater which we use on a number of our helmets.  I meant 1078 which is the CE bike/skate -  as noted at the bottom of my email to you.  should have proofread it first!  

Edited May 16, 2022 by litewave

[Paul A]

The cutting off of straps was in reference to a model/design that is different to Andrew's.

_______________________

 

One of the primary concerns in the design of a long board, downhill helmet is aerodynamics.

The helmet is designed for a long board rider in a tucked position.

The long board rider head is in a horizontal position. 

An EUC rider is upright, head vertical.

The shape of the helmet, notably the extended, jutting out chin bar, is for the purposes of reducing air drag/minimize air vortices.

The extended, elongated chin bar, may be more hazardous, as expounded in a previous post.

 

The requirements of down hill long boarding, and subsequent design might not be optimal for EUC riding.

Motorcycle helmets may or may not be more suited to EUC riding.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjBgsqUjeL3AhUR8XMBHQnEAvUQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedirect.com%2Fscience%2Farticle%2Fpii%2FS1877705810002808%2Fpdf%3Fmd5%3D88fe7df3f8c252fc07c09cec6aca1c6b%26pid%3D1-s2.0-S1877705810002808-main.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2CVJPxtp-w7L9PUYVBCnRw

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by RagingGrandpa
(split)

[Eucner]

4 hours ago, litewave said:

I have reached out to Predator Helmets to inquire about the safety certification and rating for the DH6 product line. I will update this post when I get a response.

UPDATE

I received a response from Predator Helmets (MattK) less than 30 minutes after I emailed him. What a class act. Here is the response:

• The DH6-Xg has CE EN1385 the Europe standard for bicycle.  It also meets the USA standard for bicycle CPSC.  The CE standard is generally good as far as impact, coverage, etc... but the CPSC has a tougher impact standard than the CE.  As I remember ASTM F1952 is an easy standard to pass, but does have a chin guard test that is also passable even with injection molded ABS chin guards like on many recent lower price mountain bike helmets and some other crossover helmets like Ruroc, Nobleman - which fracture more easily when impacted - so to me are not real full face helmets.  Most high end helmets(like our DH6 series) use polymer resins reinforced with carbon or fiberglass that are stronger - especially in narrow sections like chin guards. Predator DH6-Xg has CE EN1078 For Europ Bike/skateboard and CPSC(legal bicycle requirement for USA and Skateboard for California and a few other USA states) Other popular EUC helmets do not meet CPSC.  I can only guess that their product did not pass it so chose to get other lower impact-test standard certifications.

EN1385 is not the European standard for bicycle helmets. It is "Helmets for canoeing". The bicycle standard is EN1078.

Despite all written distraction, Predator DH6 is not F1952 certified. The level of knowledge in this response is not at the level to be expected from professional helmet company.

[Paul A]

https://www.predatorhelmets.com/products/dh6-xg?variant=31669915091076

DH6-Xg

Meets CPSC bicycle standard and is CE-1078 certified for bicycles and skateboards

__________________

 

The standard for downhill helmets is F1952.

 

The letters of "DH" in the Predator model name DH6-Xg might be potentially misleading consumers into thinking it has passed the higher standards required for downhill safety certification.

 

The aerodynamic shape of the

DH6-X6 suggests that it is a downhill helmet.

 

A downhill helmet meeting the higher F1952 standard would justifiably be higher in price.

 

The DH6-X6 is not certified to the higher F1952 standard.

________________

 

https://helmets.org/f1952standard.htm

 

Summary: ASTM's F1952 Downhill Mountain Bicycle Racing helmet standard is significantly more stringent than the CPSC bicycle helmet standard.

 

A helmet needs much more coverage to meet F1952, and is tested at higher impact levels. Chinbars are not required, but are tested if they are present.

 

[Eucner]

16 hours ago, litewave said:

UPDATE2

I received a follow-up response from Predator Helmets (MattK) after I shared the post above from EUCner. Here is the response:

• my mistake, 1385 is the CE for whitewater which we use on a number of our helmets.  I meant 1078 which is the CE bike/skate -  as noted at the bottom of my email to you.  should have proofread it first!  

It is even less assuring when the corrective response is also sloppy. In the bolded texts, it looks like the writer doesn't understand what those numbers and acronyms means, and how they are linked together.

[The Brahan Seer]

On 5/14/2022 at 7:30 PM, The Brahan Seer said:

Why this might be the best EUC helmet...

 

I've been testing out this helmet (VOZZ 1.0) and it's been very interesting. The Pros: 1) It weighs 1800g which sounds like its really heavy but in use feels much lighter than my 1450g. Why? I don't get any neck fatigue when using it. When glancing over the shoulder or turning your head the wind flows over the sides and bottom very easily. 2) You can put it on and off wearing your gloves. 3) You can keep your glasses on too. 4) Has a very good field of view especially looking down (for a motorcycle road helmet). 5) Does not fog up as easily as others and comes with Pinlock if required. 6) Very well made and feels very comfortable. 7) Ventilation is good. 8) Does not have a chin strap. 9) Easier to put over some EUC handles?

Cons: 1) Wind noise is a bit loud. 2) Some might not like the helmet support touching the chin. 3) Potential cost; unless you can get it cheap which seems possible atm. 4) life expectancy of hinges/chin guard. 5) Replacement cost. 6) Looks. 7) Weight will put people off and is still much heavier than downhill types. 

Conclusion: If you are looking for a motorcycle helmet with better field of view and the protection it affords give it a try, it might surprise you.

[conecones]

On 5/15/2022 at 1:15 AM, Tawpie said:

Keep in mind that an EUC fall is different than one on a motorcycle—it happens very very very quickly and you will almost certainly pitch forward.

 

20 hours ago, Paul A said:

The requirements of down hill long boarding, and subsequent design might not be optimal for EUC riding.

Motorcycle helmets may or may not be more suited to EUC riding.

I think these are very important points. Not only are EUC falls unique, I would argue ALL falls are unique - you almost never fall the same way twice. A classic example is the low side vs high side motorcycle crashes where there is a huge difference. Even if we try to use a common denominator (i.e. speed) to determine suitability of a particular helmet design/certification, it is very hard to come to a clear conclusion. We can really only be sure of one thing: wearing a helmet is better than not wearing it. The question of "how much better" one is over another, is something I think is not really worth splitting hairs over on a technical standpoint (not enough relevant data). 

This is where a personal risk assessment is needed to determine what gear is best - something that is best for your case is going to be different for another. I favour helmets with highest field of view while sacrificing on protection. Of course there's others on the opposite side of this scale. The reason I am comfortable wearing a half lid (snowboard helmet) while lane splitting with cars on the road is that I am familiar with riding in traffic, and I do this as a daily 30km commute where I get cut off multiple times on each ride. People have often suggested mirrors for riding in heavy traffic (helmet or wrist mount) and I reject this idea because of the following: if I do not have enough clear room in front of me to safely do a head turn, then I am simply not going to switch lanes at this time. With a mirror, there is a higher chance you can miss something and it promotes behaviour that will elevate your risk. In the back of my mind, I know that truthfully no amount of gear is going to save me if a car runs me over, so I go with the mantra of "I can't avoid something I didn't see".

[Paul A]

Yes, wearing a helmet is better than not.

 

The ASTM F1952 standard includes testing of the chin bar.

 

TSG Pass Pro helmets have the ASTM F1952 downhill certification.

Predator DH6-Xg helmets do not have the ASTM F1952 downhill certification.

And yet, the TSG Pass Pro helmet seems to be cheaper.

 

 

https://www.ridetsg.com/shop/pass-pro-solid-color----bonus-visor-/79025-30-173/

TSG Pass Pro                299.95 Euros  approximately $312 USD

 

https://www.predatorhelmets.com/products/dh6-xg?variant=31669915091076

Predator DH6-Xg         $395 USD

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Paul A

[Paul A]

Predator vs TSG Pass: What's the Best PEV Helmet?

May 6, 2022

Jimmy Chang

63.2K subscribers

 

Video copied to commence at time mark 4.50.

 

Jimmy:

"If you're concerned that the TSG Pass might be too small, then you might want to consider the Predator, because it's one size fits all.  It comes with all the different padding that you need, if you need to size up or size down

 

Andrew:

"One thing to note about the TSG Pass helmet, they're all the same size.  So whether you get a small, medium or large, it's not like you're getting a bigger helmet, you're getting the same helmet, just different pads."

_______________________________________________________

 

The helmets do not come in different sizes.

It is one size fits all.

The helmets are using different thickness sponge padding to fill in the spaces between the head and the helmet.

The head is not fully, properly restrained, with all over direct contact with the protective foam shell.

 

Is it actually a loose fit?

The sponge padding only giving the sensation that the helmet is fitted properly?

In a frontal impact, is the head going to be restrained to remain properly within the helmet, or continue forward until it hits the chin bar?

Is the chin strap going to strangle the neck of a forward moving head?

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Paul A

[Paul A]

Helmets should probably not be one size fits all, with sponges to fill in the gaps.

___________________________________________

 

https://www.bikebiz.com.au/blog/articles/how-can-i-be-sure-that-my-helmet-fits-properly-and-why

How to fit a helmet properly and why

Until Science Fiction becomes reality and body swapping can occur, you only get one brain.

This is why it is so important that you have a proper fitting helmet in case you have an accident and hit your head.

 

A guy with an over-piled trailer didn't check his blind spot as he changed lanes into mine.

In an effort to avoid him, I hit the brakes and swerved, clipping his left tail light on the way.

I ended up landing on my head and right shoulder, breaking my right collar bone.

I also sustained a head injury causing me not to remember what actually happened.

I ended up with a concussion and 24 hours of amnesia.

 

Why?
My helmet was plastic, and too big for my head.

When my helmet hit the ground, my head wasn't in it properly, and my head hit the helmet once it was on the ground.

This caused a double impact.
When the helmet hit the ground, the EPS lining absorbed the initial impact, but not the impact from my head hitting the helmet.

From that day on wards, I have always put money into a proper fitting, great quality helmet.

 

Make sure your helmet fits you properly.
The below steps will help guide you.

1. Measure your head size.
Pass a tape measure around the crown of your head, about an inch above your eyebrows. This should be the biggest part of your head.

2. Check the size against a sizing chart like the one below from Shoei Helmets.

3. Remember that measuring your head with a tape measure, doesn't always translate to the actual helmet.

4. Try the helmet on.

5. Have a think about how the helmet is feeling.

*Can you fit a finger between the helmet and your temple? You shouldn't be able to.

6. Take the helmet off.
The helmet will be as difficult to get off as it was to get on. If it's easy to get n and off when it's new, it's too big and you should try down a size.

[Skeptikos]

Wow a lot of misinformation appeared in this thread over the last couple of days. Let's try to get things back on track.

 

@litewave Has the Predator DH6-X been battle-tested?

I'd say not really. It's probably been used for downhill longboarding, where crashes usually involve falling onto a flat road. Bicycle- and skateboard-certified helmets are fine for hitting flat asphalt (even at higher speeds), but they aren't meant for harder crashes that could occur when you hit a car for example, so it isn't what I would recommend for riding at higher speeds in traffic.

When you hit the road at 50mph, it's the same as hitting the road at 15mph, you just slide longer afterward. So don't let yourself be impressed by the speed of a crash. For a fall onto the road, what matters is the height of the fall.

Is the TSG Pass "skateboard-certified"?

Yes, but it's extremely misleading to describe it that way given that it's also certified for downhill mountain bike racing, which is a higher standard. Since the DH6-X doesn't have the downhill certification, the most sensible assumption is that it has less impact protection than the TSG Pass.

@Paul A Is a full leather motorcycle track suit a good choice for EUC riding?

No. I won't go into detail because no one takes this recommendation seriously anyway. For higher speeds look for CE class AA garments, for <40mph class A is fine.

@conecones "Chin protection is just not as big of a factor as you might think"?

I also don't think anyone takes this seriously, just saying it's misinformation for the record.

"half lids are acceptable for motorcycle riding on the road"?

They're acceptable in the sense that it's legal to ride in one. But you can also legally ride in flip-flops. Everyone in motorcycling knows full face helmets are safer.

@Paul A Are offroad helmets bad on the street?

It depends. They're not very aerodynamic at highway speeds (which most unicycles are not going). And they don't have faceshields, which are a nice feature for street riding. But the pointy chinbar allows more air to flow to your face, which some people may prefer.

The idea that off-road helmets are dangerous in a crash and could decapitate you is so bizarre and absurd, that it should totally discredit the unserious person who wrote it.

 

But more than anything else, I'm a bit angry to see misinformation coming directly from a helmet maker.

@Matt Kelly: Is ASTM F1952 not a real full face standard?

Of course it is. The chinbars are specifically tested to show that they won't deform too much when hit with an impact. If the chinbar doesn't break or flex too much when impacted, then your chin will be fine. The concept that this testing isn't "real" is totally absurd and outrageous. The claim that it's not "real" chin protection if the helmet isn't carbon or fiberglass is ridiculous.

It sounds like Matt's confusion has led Predator to make a helmet that has a very strong shell, which is great for protection from penetration, but to neglect impact protection. For street riding I definitely prioritize impact protection. Even the basic motorcycle standards require much more impact protection than the TSG Pass has. For street riding, the Predator's lower level of impact protection is mediocre at best, and having a strong shell doesn't make up for that. It's not the helmet you want to be wearing if you hit a car.

"Other popular EUC helmets do not meet CPSC"?

The popular EUC helmets all have US bicycle (CPSC) or motorcycle certifications. This claim is complete nonsense.

The sad conclusion here is that the guy running Predator is not trustworthy when it comes to his own company's safety gear. 😬

Edited May 17, 2022 by Skeptikos

[Eucner]

55 minutes ago, Skeptikos said:

For a fall onto the road, what matters is the height of the fall.

The height is the most important and coefficient of friction comes in second. The impact force is a vector sum of falling (vertical) and friction (horizontal) forces.

[Paul A]

4 hours ago, Skeptikos said:

The idea that off-road helmets are dangerous in a crash and could decapitate you is so bizarre and absurd, that it should totally discredit the unserious person who wrote it.

 

https://www.uchealth.com/en/media-room/patient-stories/kentucky-woman-walks-after-rare-internal-decapitation

Nov. 11, 2019

Kentucky Woman Walks After Rare Internal Decapitation

 

On the sunny evening of Friday, Aug. 16, 2019, Nicole decided it was the perfect night to practice riding her motorcycle.

 

The medical term for internal decapitation is occipitocervical dissociation, which is caused by rupture of the ligaments that connect the skull to the neck.

 

It is often a fatal injury, and in those who survive, severe neurologic deficits are common.

 

Emergent surgery is required to relocate the skull to the upper cervical spine and stabilize it with screws and rods.

____________

akin

/əˈkɪn/

 

adjective

1. of similar character.

   "something akin to gratitude overwhelmed her"

Edited May 18, 2022 by Paul A
Formatting

[Wolverine]

As previously stated on our forum, the EN1078 (bicycle), ASTM F1952 (DH) and ASTM F2032 (BMX) may not be sufficient for euc riding. Let me explain why.

When I started riding an euc, the maximum speed of my wheel was 20 km/h (12 mph). At this speed, a bicycle (EN1078) helmet was quite sufficient. The next electric unicycle was already traveling faster than 30 km/h (18 mph). I upgraded my helmet to ASTM F1952. After that I got an euc with a maximum speed of 50 km/h (31 mph). I didn't get a better helmet because I've believed the ASTM F1952 to be sufficient. The top speed of my next euc is definitely more than 50 km/h (31 mph). What has happened in the meantime? What has happened is that the maximum speed of the euc has increased, but we have not paid attention to the helmets.

Let's turn our attention to the most common standard used by riders - ASTM F1952. Recently, there have been uploaded many videos on the Internet showing that ASTM F1952 is not sufficient. Someone might say that one particular company makes bad ASTM F1952 helmets, but we have to take into account that this is a very popular helmet among euc riders and that's why we get more data from these riders.

The ASTM F1952 helmet user manual clearly states that the helmet is intended for downhill skateboarding or downhill biking use only. As it turns out, we use the helmet for the wrong purpose. But let's not stop there, let's dig further. ASTM F1952 is intended primarily for use downhill biking and longboarding. When googling, you will find out that competitive downhill MTB riders average speed is typically between 29-32 km/h (18-20 mph). Longboarding speed typically ranges from 9 km/h (6 mph) when cruising, to 80-104 km/h (50-65 mph) when downhill riding. Check in what position they ride - the head is as low as it can get. The head distance is a bit higher for MTB riders, but it cannot be compared to the height of electric unicycle riders. When I get on my V11, my total length is about 200 cm (78 Inch). Some electric unicycles have pedals even higher, and there are riders taller than me.

The previous information brings us nicely to the fact that ASTM F1952 is tested from a height of 200 cm (78 Inch). Since there are many different forces that affect the impact of the helmet with the ground, it is clear that the ASTM F1952 standard is not suitable for euc riding. And that's why we see that these types of helmets don't provide the protection that we need.

SPSC (Consumer product safety commission) has a chart on their website with helmet recommendations for different sports. It is as simple as it gets - If your device has a motor, it is recommended to use a motorcycle helmet. For example, DOT and ECE 22.05 testing height is 300 cm (118 Inch).

I am going to change my ASTM F1952 helmet to a motorcycle helmet. Dual-sport motorcycle helmets are hybrid helmets, with larger eye openings to allow goggles as well as a face shield for the street. I think this is the most sensible style of motorcycle helmet for most euc riders.

 

[conecones]

11 minutes ago, Wolverine said:

As previously stated on our forum, the EN1078 (bicycle), ASTM F1952 (DH) and ASTM F2032 (BMX) may not be sufficient for euc riding. Let me explain why.

When I started riding an euc, the maximum speed of my wheel was 20 km/h (12 mph). At this speed, a bicycle (EN1078) helmet was quite sufficient. The next electric unicycle was already traveling faster than 30 km/h (18 mph). I upgraded my helmet to ASTM F1952. After that I got an euc with a maximum speed of 50 km/h (31 mph). I didn't get a better helmet because I've believed the ASTM F1952 to be sufficient. The top speed of my next euc is definitely more than 50 km/h (31 mph). What has happened in the meantime? What has happened is that the maximum speed of the euc has increased, but we have not paid attention to the helmets.

Let's turn our attention to the most common standard used by riders - ASTM F1952. Recently, there have been uploaded many videos on the Internet showing that ASTM F1952 is not sufficient. Someone might say that one particular company makes bad ASTM F1952 helmets, but we have to take into account that this is a very popular helmet among euc riders and that's why we get more data from these riders.

The ASTM F1952 helmet user manual clearly states that the helmet is intended for downhill skateboarding or downhill biking use only. As it turns out, we use the helmet for the wrong purpose. But let's not stop there, let's dig further. ASTM F1952 is intended primarily for use downhill biking and longboarding. When googling, you will find out that competitive downhill MTB riders average speed is typically between 29-32 km/h (18-20 mph). Longboarding speed typically ranges from 9 km/h (6 mph) when cruising, to 80-104 km/h (50-65 mph) when downhill riding. Check in what position they ride - the head is as low as it can get. The head distance is a bit higher for MTB riders, but it cannot be compared to the height of electric unicycle riders. When I get on my V11, my total length is about 200 cm (78 Inch). Some electric unicycles have pedals even higher, and there are riders taller than me.

The previous information brings us nicely to the fact that ASTM F1952 is tested from a height of 200 cm (78 Inch). Since there are many different forces that affect the impact of the helmet with the ground, it is clear that the ASTM F1952 standard is not suitable for euc riding. And that's why we see that these types of helmets don't provide the protection that we need.

SPSC (Consumer product safety commission) has a chart on their website with helmet recommendations for different sports. It is as simple as it gets - If your device has a motor, it is recommended to use a motorcycle helmet. For example, DOT and ECE 22.05 testing height is 300 cm (118 Inch).

I am going to change my ASTM F1952 helmet to a motorcycle helmet. Dual-sport motorcycle helmets are hybrid helmets, with larger eye openings to allow goggles as well as a face shield for the street. I think this is the most sensible style of motorcycle helmet for most euc riders.

 

Where you ride should be a greater factor than what wheel you ride in determining what type of helmet to wear. High speed roadways with cars? Get the full face DOT helmet. Inner city mixed traffic with cars and/or bikes? A case could be made for any type depending on preferences of weight, visibility, riding style. Off-roading in the forest? Full face or half shell MTB helmet.

Speed is just one factor out of many. It's important of course but it would be smart to not base your decision entirely on this one factor.

[Cerbera]

OK, following the quickest delivery in the world, Sportsbike UK have just sent me a Scorpion ADX-2 (AT-960), and here seems like a good place to do a first impressions post...

It has certainly made an impression ! Initially I will be comparing it to the TSG Pass. Without doubt it is a fair bit bigger from the side...

...a hell of a lot wider than the TSG...

...and we can see why when we compare the padding inside...

 

The weight difference is eminently noticeable, and my feeble little neck will probably take a while to get used to carrying the increased weight about, especially when the front is up, which might lead me to not do that much... however my first anxiety was immediately relieved when, unlike the last cheapy modular helmet I bought, the front flip here does stay in the up position, regardless of lumps and bumps in the road, and even if you jump up and down, so that is mark of high quality right out of the gate...

Likewise, the visors stay exactly where you put them as well, and are very firm in action.

I went for Medium size (57-58cm) and it fits me tightly but well, though there is a small amount of rotation possible when I pull the initially very stiff visor up and down unless I also hold the helmet still with other hand. I presume that will loosen slightly with time, and likewise the padding, which seems VERY tight around the face will slacken off too with use.

My ADX-2 came with a pinlock anti fog thing, but it wasn't fitted, so will have to do that later, or may wait for the chrome visor to arrive, which is coming separately for some reason.

Initial impression when on, and with all visors down, apart from the weight is how much reduced the visibility is from the TSG Pass - that feels like a very 'open helmet' if you see what I mean (even when closed), whereas this ADX feels closed in, and although I can see nearly the same left to right, there is a predictably massive reduction in up and down, so there is some element of letterboxing to the view that wasn't necessarily so there so much on the ADX-1.

However, for that slightly smaller viewing area we do gain compliance to latest 2024 EU regs, and a helm that is lockable in the up position, so legal to ride that way (if legality wasn't a moot issue anyway on an EUC). 

Looks wise - I'm a thin guy, so even with my armour on, there is still a touch of the 'matchstick' about me wearing the ADX, that isn't there with the TSG, which definitely looks cooler, but I am less bothered about looks than I am about not knocking myself unconscious by tipping head-first from 7 ft to the ground off a Master doing 50 mph.

So, in summary - it's the bleeding obvious really - the ADX offers a lot better protection than the TSG because it is bigger, heavier, more padded, and better certified, as we'd expect ! I remain somewhat on the fence about whether the TSG Still has a place for slow careful night rides (now it's all so nicely lit up!) whereas the ADX should feature in all my long daytime and rubbish weather trips and on those where I am doing 'the fastness'.

Glad I bought it, as it completes my armour-set to the new standard I felt was demanded by the Master, but no doubt it will take some getting used to. I am going to give it a week's worth of rides with just the ADX-2, then alternate between the 2 for a few days, so I can further compare and contrast...

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Cerbera

[Paul A]

29 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

whether the TSG Still has a place for slow careful night rides

 

Seems pointless in wearing the TSG now that the Scorpion is available.

The TSG looks like a toy in the side by side comparison.

 

TSG is around 980 grams.

The ADX-2 is nearly twice the weight at around 1834 grams.

 

The ADX-2 is certified to:

ECE 22.06 replaces ECE 22.05, the current road-legal motorcycle helmet safety standard.

Helmets for use on public roads must pass the safety test before they are put on sale.

 

A slow, careful night ride, can be interrupted by a vehicle hitting a person with a lot of force.

Nice choice.

 

[Robse]

The inside of the TSG looks like a cheap bikehelmet from "Lidl" ( = Wallmart / Poundland )    But i already knew that :-)

[2disbetter]

The visor thing (the white thing above the visor I mean) on the ADX-2... is it adjustable? What is the purpose of that? I think I am going to get a similar helmet because while I just got a TSG, I really do wonder how much that helmet will protect me in a crash.

[Paul A]

38 minutes ago, Robse said:

TSG looks like a cheap bikehelmet from "Lidl" ( = Wallmart / Poundland )

 

Walmart, Best Seller, Motorcycle DOT helmet.

 

 

 

[Paul A]

13 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

The visor thing (the white thing above the visor I mean) on the ADX-2... is it adjustable? What is the purpose of that?

 

 

Scorpion ADX-2 peak FAIL

On The Pegs

Jan 27, 2023

 

Everything is wrong about the peak: the angle, the thin material, how it vibrates even at 70km/h, how the vibration gets transfered to your forehead, how the screws get loose due to the vibration... Cutting corners scorpion, huh?!