Begode Master 134V 2400WH Suspension

[Paul A]

Have Demon wrist guards with the Velcro strap cut off.  Leather gloves fit over the wrist guards. 

Makes it easier to put on/off when fingers are needed for touch screens.

 

Full grain leather motorcycle suit is worth the cost.  They fit properly, are comfortable, all over proper protection, properly secured to remain in place.

Lazy Rolling gear seems to be inadequate then.

EUC speeds are so high that motorcycle level protection seems required.

_____________

Am glad he was able to walk away.

He was very fortunate in this particular event.

The next crash may not be so fortuitous.

A small bit of road rash may not be the extent of injury next time.

A helmet that is only certified for skateboarding is immensely inadequate.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Paul A
Clarification

[techyiam]

Regarding Jimmy Chang's Begode Master video, I can't seem to catch when the wheel cut out. It appears to me the pedals tilted forwards, and Andrew panicked, and decided to stepped off the left pedal causing the wheel to turned sideways momentarily, and ultimately started a tumbling sequence.  It is easier to follow if the play back speed is set to 0.25.

Timed stamped at 7:32.

 

 

[Paul A]

Different models/design of Demon wrist guards.

Would not be able to cut straps off Andrew's.

 

 

The following statements indicate the design, intended use and applications, might not be adequate for EUC high speeds.

the worst, and quite common longboard skateboarding impacts are slap downs to the back of head.

INTENDED USE: The Pass helmet with visor is intended for downhill skateboarding or downhill biking use only. The visor is intended to provide protection from wind, dirt, mud, sun and impact. Do not use this visor on road when driving.

APPLICATIONS: The TSG Pass helmets are designed for use in non-motorized recreational sports such as skateboarding and pedal cycling. All TSG helmets fully comply with international safety regulations.

 

The videos showed impacts to side/back of head.

The elongated, extended out from body contact, chin bar at the front of the head, may not be sufficiently strong enough.

The space also allows for great movement of the helmet upon frontal impact.

 

[supercurio]

3 hours ago, EMA said:

we are talking about two different things

the reason of the crash is simply ignoring beeps, once you reach 100% of the motor you'll fall , it's not a question of power or battery in this case, it's lacking of speed/rpm to hold your lean.

having a different battery %, capacity or higher discharge cells will only change the speed you'll fall 

I see what you mean, and I understand why it seems like he was ignoring the beeps. However (and I might be wrong) my interpretation from the video is that it was more to feather around the beeps, not to fully ignore them.

You can see in the video of the crash that there are beeps, which stop briefly and then more beeps, which I've noticed is often how it sounds when trying to riding at max speed very close to the beeps - slightly below but also sometimes slightly above for a second or so.

If you do that on a Sherman you're usually just fine. But what works safely with 240x 10A cells with PWM alarms at 70% doesn't lead to the same safety with 128x 10A cells at 80% PWM at higher riding speed.

Regarding running out of RPM or torque, it's hard to tell without data. I doubt that he rode last the freespin at the given voltage, and the torque demand at 45mph+ for a rider this size is very significant due to aero drag, therefore: probably both (lack of torque due to motor current being limited by the small difference between EMF and battery voltage). But then it's where voltage sag, and how it evolves under load has a big impact IMHO.

[Paul A]

2 hours ago, conecones said:

 

To put out a bit of an obtuse argument - I would actually support overall gearing up LESS in the EUC community - I often see people way over-geared as a way to make up for skill or confidence, thinking spending more money will save them from injury. Wearing less gear will teach responsible riding behaviour faster than anything. Ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.

Quite possible.

Human behaviour/hubris might be large component.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H

3 September 1967, in which the traffic in Sweden switched from driving on the left-hand side of the road to the right.

...the change made a marked surge in perceived risk that exceeded the target level and thus was followed by very cautious behaviour that caused a major decrease in road fatalities. Indeed, fatal car-to-car and car-to-pedestrian accidents dropped sharply as a result, and the number of motor insurance claims went down by 40%.[citation needed]

 

These initial improvements did not last, however. The number of motor insurance claims returned to "normal" over the next six weeks and, by 1969, the accident rates were back to the levels seen before the change.[14][15][16]

 

https://one.nhtsa.gov/Research/Light-Vehicle-Antilock-Brake-Systems-(ABS)-Research-Program

Antilock brake systems (ABS) have been introduced on many passenger car and light truck make/models in recent years. Brake experts anticipated that the introduction of ABS on passenger vehicles would reduce the number and severity of accidents. 

5. The apparent increase in single-vehicle accidents involving ABS-equipped vehicles may be due to changes in driver behavior due (i.e., risk compensation) to their perceptions of the benefits provided by ABS.

Drivers of ABS-equipped vehicles may operate their vehicles at higher speeds due to the perception that ABS increases the vehicles handling and braking performance.

This increased vehicle speed could result in more run-off-road, single-vehicle accidents, particularly on curved roads.

[EMA]

7 hours ago, supercurio said:

I see what you mean, and I understand why it seems like he was ignoring the beeps. However (and I might be wrong) my interpretation from the video is that it was more to feather around the beeps, not to fully ignore them.

You can see in the video of the crash that there are beeps, which stop briefly and then more beeps, which I've noticed is often how it sounds when trying to riding at max speed very close to the beeps - slightly below but also sometimes slightly above for a second or so.

If you do that on a Sherman you're usually just fine. But what works safely with 240x 10A cells with PWM alarms at 70% doesn't lead to the same safety with 128x 10A cells at 80% PWM at higher riding speed.

Regarding running out of RPM or torque, it's hard to tell without data. I doubt that he rode last the freespin at the given voltage, and the torque demand at 45mph+ for a rider this size is very significant due to aero drag, therefore: probably both (lack of torque due to motor current being limited by the small difference between EMF and battery voltage). But then it's where voltage sag, and how it evolves under load has a big impact IMHO.

it's clearly an hard acceleration, wheel beep a bit earlier, he stop accelerating and then push again, and that was before passing the camera...until the pedal dip 3s later

i agree with that a bigger battery/wheel has more buffer at the end but in this particular case nothing change, you don't have low voltage you have >80%  pwm output

 

[Bizra6ot]

For me it looks like he was on the edge and hit a bump, if you watch x0.25 in 4k + zoom on it all started exactly on the line of weeds that digs into the road and if you look at the other side of the road a few meters before you can see the same line including a pothole

[Freestyler]

10 hours ago, supercurio said:

If you do that on a Sherman you're usually just fine. But what works safely with 240x 10A cells with PWM alarms at 70% doesn't lead to the same safety with 128x 10A cells at 80% PWM at higher riding speed.

I wanted to add something to that, by adding the precise pwm limits for all begode wheels.

84v wheels have a max pwm value of 980 and they beep at 750. (76.5%)

100v wheels have a max pwm value of 1050 and they beep at 800. (76.1%)

Master (134v) have a max pwm value of 1050 and it beeps at 840. (80%)

 

Not only it has the least safety margin of all begode wheels, it is ridden at extreme speeds where conditions change rapidly.

A small lean at those speeds, will sag the batteries a lot (in order to overcome air drag), raising the PWM rapidly and eat your safety margin quickly.

If you want to ride the beeps or do crazy hard leans, going with high discharge batteries seems more appropriate to me as the voltage will be more stable / predictable. (for this 4p wheel)

I suspect we'll hear many crashes with Master.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Freestyler

[Freestyler]

One more thing: Darkness bot and Euc World hide the voltage sag by design in their effort to estimate a state of charge.

Begode wheels drop their speed linearly as the voltage drops though. They don't care about SoC.

see this post if you want proof directly from begode: 

 

What this means in practical terms? My mcm5v2 beeps at 47km/h with 100% battery.

At 10% battery the speed is reduced by 22.5% = 36km/h.

In between battery levels the drop is linear. So if you are at full battery and go ride a steep incline the voltage will drop by 30%.

The alarm speed is now calculated with 70% battery. It doesn't matter that after the incline the voltage will jump back up.

Using the formula above I've been able to predict my alarm speed within 1km/h for all battery levels and ride conditions.

 

Hiding the voltage drop in begode wheels is extremely dangerous and does not do you any favor in helping you learn your wheel.

I've seen some videos with master being driven at 90km/h with just 10% voltage drop.

That is just plain impossible. You'll never be at full battery when going at the wheels max speed unless it's a decline. (especially with high capacity cells)

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Freestyler

[EMA]

6 minutes ago, Freestyler said:

One more thing: Darkness bot and Euc World hide the voltage sag by design in their effort to estimate a state of charge.

i think this happens when using in app algorithm, not when using custom voltage which is way better

[Freestyler]

4 minutes ago, EMA said:

i think this happens when using in app algorithm, not when using custom voltage which is way better

I agree. The first thing I do for all my wheels in Euc world is to set custom levels.

For anyone who wants to find the minimum voltage for their wheel, consult this table: https://github.com/freestyl3r/euc-dash/blob/73172343cdd327d382b395b45b89bbb9beb759f6/js/begode.js#L8-L24 (black controllers data)

 

Multiply the number of cells in series with the minimum voltage per cell.

Example with RS: 3.25 minimum cell voltage * 24 cells = 78v. This is the tiltback voltage (0%).

The low voltage beeps start 1-2volts higher (79v or 80v can't remember).

Edited May 15, 2022 by Freestyler

[PourUC]

17 hours ago, Paul A said:

Why wasn't the rider wearing gloves?

Why did the rider ignore the beeps?

At these speeds, the gloves that fit under a wrist brace are more for wind protection than abrasian protection. They are all MTB gloves and thin. Sure it would help him a bit, but not much.

He probably didn't hear them.

[Paul A]

Maybe riders that want the high speeds without risks of cutting out, should consider electric scooters.

 

THE KAABO WOLF KING 11 GT FEATURES;
✓ A Insane 2000W Motor
✓ All New 72V 50A Sine Wave Controllers
✓ Travel Further with a 180km Range
✓ Extreme Top Speed of 100+ km/h
✓ Full Colour 3.5" TFT Display Mounted on Handlebars
✓ Informative Display and Easy to Read in Sunlight 
✓ Added Safety With Front and Rear turn signals
✓ Now Boasts an IPX5 Water Resistance Rating
✓ Beefed Up Front Suspension Allowing for an Extra 50mm
✓ Increased Handlebars of 50mm Higher & 100mm Wider
✓ The Combined Large Handle bars and Deck Gives
Ultimate Control and Stability at High Speeds

✓ Ride Confidently with Puncture Proof Tubeless Tyres
✓ Full Hydraulic Brakes
✓ Dual Charging Ports for Faster Charging

 

[PourUC]

2 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Maybe riders that want the high speeds without risks of cutting out, should consider electric scooters.

 

 

 

Motorbikes already exist. It's going fast on one wheel that people want.

[Paul A]

Long cuff, leather motorcycle gloves might fit over the larger sized wrist guards.

Think the rider stated in the video that he heard the beeps but chose to continue.

_______

Leather Motorcycle Gauntlet Gloves with zippered cuffs.

Made from premium leather cowhide are these black lined gauntlet motorbike gloves ideal for winter
 

• These Premium Motorcycle gloves are made with cowhide leather
• Gauntlet style glove included with zipped cuffs
• Adjustable Velcro fitting at the wrist area
• Fully lined - made for the cold temperatures of the winter
• 

[Paul A]

When solid state batteries eventuate to significantly increase speed and range......it probably still won't be enough.  

Might be that whatever the limit reaches, some will still deliberately exceed it.

 

[PourUC]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Long cuff, leather motorcycle gloves might fit over the larger sized wrist guards.

Think the rider stated in the video that he heard the beeps but chose to continue.

_______

Leather Motorcycle Gauntlet Gloves with zippered cuffs.

Made from premium leather cowhide are these black lined gauntlet motorbike gloves ideal for winter
 

• These Premium Motorcycle gloves are made with cowhide leather
• Gauntlet style glove included with zipped cuffs
• Adjustable Velcro fitting at the wrist area
• Fully lined - made for the cold temperatures of the winter
• 

I ride motorbikes. I can garuntee that none of my gloves will fit over a set of wrist braces. I have all kinds from thin summer gloves, to heated winter gloves. The best you can do is mtb gloves under near a set of wrist braces. Unless you specifically buy gloves which don't fit you that is.

[fryman]

I'm questioning if we should be riding this fast.  Did you see how far the wheel flew? Imagine this happening in the city. 

[Paul A]

Leather gloves fit over this model of Demon wrist guards.  The guards are metal. 

Just need to cut the Velcro straps off.  The elastic covering with thumb holes, work fine without the straps.

 

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, Bizra6ot said:

For me it looks like he was on the edge and hit a bump, if you watch x0.25 in 4k + zoom on it all started exactly on the line of weeds that digs into the road and if you look at the other side of the road a few meters before you can see the same line including a pothole

I think you might be right. I do see now that he lost control also immediately after going over a transverse crack in the road where weeds have grown in. It does seem plausible that the bump could have caused the Master to pedal dip, and consequently alarming Andrew to panic and bail. Interesting that the Master being a relatively cushy wheel wasn't enough to circumvent the pedal dipping.

Gutsy guy. A relatively new rider to be exploring the speed limit of a 134V wheel on a road that is not super smooth, and perhaps not having a good underlying understanding of the pwm margins of the inverters on the Master, and the related battery pack discharge characteristics?

Edited May 15, 2022 by techyiam

[The Brahan Seer]

There has been discussion on this under protective gear, you can always use wristguards over motorcycle gloves. I have posted a picture of mine in this forum previously.

Getting back on topic. Probably the biggest concern I have for the Master is the suspension. Other vlogs has also mentioned the torsion effect the Master experiences at higher speed as an issue and not having many options to upgrade or refine this is a problem...

 

[Wolverine]

I was surprised that Adam seemed very pleased with this unicycle. The teardown video is under work, so there may be things that aren't that good, but we’ll see about that. He mentioned that there were concerns that this wheel will cutoff if one battery or one bms fails, but this is not really the case. All of those batteries are always connected to the motherboard, so if one bms fails you are still able to discharge the batteries (read no cutoff), all thought you won’t be able to charge it.

 

[techyiam]

19 minutes ago, Wolverine said:

Adam seemed very pleased with this unicycle.

More like over-the-moon on both motor and suspension performance, aside from big hits (big drops or jumps). I was very surprised by how much he liked the Master for off-road trails, given how many reviews gave the thumbs up to the S22.

Edited May 15, 2022 by techyiam

[EMA]

another impressive review for the master, even more considering is coming from Adam.

this kind of suspension is amazing for standard riding 
 

[The Brahan Seer]

Its great that he liked the wheel and is genuinely impressed with its performance. I so much want to really like it too. I just can't help thinking that if its a performance wheel you want performance suspension and no road sports motorcycle or car suspension is soft.