Begode Master 134V 2400WH Suspension

[chanman]

43 minutes ago, goatman said:

Battery Mooch did a test of the p45b here and you can click on the links in the thread to compare with the 40T and P42a

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=116190

Interesting data, although I'm not sure how much straight out of -10C freezer is reflective of typical riding conditions, the voltage rise as the cell warms up is interesting to see. Some argument for the premium price of the P42A pack if your riding weather resembles a freezer, although I'd still take the 40T over the 50E.

Edited May 29, 2022 by chanman

[goatman]

temps matter if you work outside all day and  your wheel sits outside for 10 hours in the winter

p45b is 900 mah more than a 40t, thats an extra 3.6ah

where i live a lg m50lt, p42a and 40t all cost $10 cad

18650 battery store a p42a, 50E and m50lt are all the same price and they cost $1 more than a 40 T

i could throw one of the good lg m50t cells i have in the freezer and do the same test

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by goatman

[chanman]

Presumably the larger quantities wheel manufacturers are ordering see a different price than us consumers and our 100 cells tops orders. Currently the P42 pack is offered at a significant premium for the master over the 50E back by AlienRides, which i assume reflects the prices Begode is charging, and presumably their costs of getting the packs. Somewhat scummy if indeed they cost the same for Begode and they're charging us more though.

Edited May 29, 2022 by chanman

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, chanman said:

Presumably the larger quantities wheel manufacturers are ordering see a different price than us consumers and our 100 cells tops orders. Currently the P42 pack is offered at a significant premium for the master over the 50E back by AlienRides, which i assume reflects the prices Begode is charging, and presumably their costs of getting the packs. Somewhat scummy if indeed they cost the same for Begode and they're charging us more though.

The LG M50LT cells have been pretty popular with euc's manufacturers for the last little while. I just can't see them not using Samsung or Molicel if the wholesale prices were the same. We are not just talking about Begode. Kingsong an Inmotion did the same.

For example, both the Inmotion V12 and the Kingsong S22 come standard with M50LT cells. My Begode T3 also came with M50LT.

Now, that is not to say Samsung and Molicel did not just lower their prices. And if this was the case, it would take a little time for the manufacturers to catch up.

Edited May 30, 2022 by techyiam

[goatman]

they probably got the m50t's dirt cheap 

LG should not be cheaper than samsung or molicel, alot of lg 18650 cells were better than samsung

not all tesla cars burst into flames but some do when something goes haywire

like those crap bms' they were using, where the balance leads were breaking

when i put the 18650 packs in my msp, i could feel the sides of the shell squish inward towards the bms when squeezing the wheel with my legs so

pulled the sides off again and put a bunch of silicone blobs on the battery heat shrink where the bms was but not in the area where smd's were, layed some saran wrap over it so the silicone wouldnt stick to the shell and put the side back on and let it dry over night. now i didnt have to worry about damaging the bms.

i just wish they would come out with  cell monitoring

or even clear heat shrink with the led's that blink red when the balancing circuit is active

but we are talking about 4p wheels. 6p or 8p wheels i wouldnt use 40T or P42a or P45b

atleast with high power cells if one pack goes down the other cells can take the load

you could put a 70amp breaker on each 2p pack so it wouldnt trip if the other pack went down but it would trip with a dead short

 i dont want controllers that talk to the batteries, its just one more thing they will screw up

ewheels didnt take on whatever the recall is because Begode knows how to build batteries, its because they dont

 

 

[The Brahan Seer]

Here is the Samsung 40T datasheet. It is happy from -20°C to 60°C. But best performance is at 23°C.

SAMSUNG-INR21700-40T-Datasheet.pdf

[Kutvis]

Been riding my old MSP HT down to -19c/-2f. Have some extra padding to protect against Drift. I get roughly 70% of summer time range. My record in thick powdersnow is 19500W power taken by Gotway software.. What ever it is in real life in amps. At that time I had full battery and temps were roughly -13c.

I believe all new batteries will manage, especially on master plastic casing if the batteries are protected against cold drift

[Freeforester]

Are we sitting comfortably? Time for that minor Film Noir Français classic: 

 

[Marciart]

Do you think the Heidenau K66 - 90 / 90-14 can be installed?

[Freeforester]

U-Stride’s take on Andrew’s Master crash:

 

[Tawpie]

Sometimes I think it'd be nice for YT personalities to run their scripts through a light technical review. They'd be able to avoid the obvious misstatements that don't enhance their credibility.

[EMA]

not so easy but you can do it

[Hansolo]

easy in fact

[EMA]

29 minutes ago, Hansolo said:

easy in fact

another good way too 

[AtlasP]

18 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Sometimes I think it'd be nice for YT personalities to run their scripts through a light technical review. They'd be able to avoid the obvious misstatements that don't enhance their credibility.

Obligatory: "70% how you look, 20% how you sound, 10% what you say". This might as well be the YouTube slogan.

Edited May 31, 2022 by AtlasP

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

Obligatory: "70% how you look, 20% how you sound, 10% what you say". This might as well be the YouTube slogan.

I think ifixit.com is using this fact to lure unsuspecting DIYers to try to repair their own phones and buy ifixit tools. Their iphone battery replacement videos are getting to be more show than go (useful details).

[DavidB]

On 5/24/2022 at 7:56 AM, redfoxdude said:

Thanks! Can't help but feel like Begode just designed it this way for the compact look, but didn't really consider what the leverage ratio implies for folks that weigh more than their test riders. The linear curve could be more forgivable if it actually utilized the full stroke of the shock to take advantage of the progressive rate of the air spring, but it's Begode 
I also saw some of the alternative linkage design ideas being tossed around, with lower leverage ratios and more progressive rate (maybe?). I'd potentially be interested in getting something like those fabbed to really reduce the forces involved in the linkage, and get a progressive rate for improved bottom-out resistance with coils.
I wonder if anyone has measured the curve of the S20/22? Would be neat to see, too.

Redfoxdude Where did you see "some alternative linkages"?

Interestingly, when I heard Wrongway! Adam say the EX20s seems more progressive in his YT review I plotted it out and found it to be just as linear as the Master. In fact even more linear but the big difference was ratio of 2.6 leading to 2.33:1 compared to the Master 3.33 to 3.0:1 ratio.

So basically the Master links have ~28.5% more leverage over the shock than the EX20S links. So I guess that is why 250psi seems not enough on the Master while 200psi is maybe a little too much (I've read) on the EX20S. Ditto for shock travel. The Master shock uses only 24mm whilst the EX20S uses 28.5% more.

Maybe the best way to improve the Master suspension is to reduce the linkage ratio to something like the EX20S.

 

[redfoxdude]

27 minutes ago, DavidB said:

Redfoxdude Where did you see "some alternative linkages"?

Interestingly, when I heard Wrongway! Adam say the EX20s seems more progressive in his YT review I plotted it out and found it to be just as linear as the Master. In fact even more linear but the big difference was ratio of 2.6 leading to 2.33:1 compared to the Master 3.33 to 3.0:1 ratio.

So basically the Master links have ~28.5% more leverage over the shock than the EX20S links. So I guess that is why 250psi seems not enough on the Master while 200psi is maybe a little too much (I've read) on the EX20S. Ditto for shock travel. The Master shock uses only 24mm whilst the EX20S uses 28.5% more.

Maybe the best way to improve the Master suspension is to reduce the linkage ratio to something like the EX20S.

 

On the Master Telegram group =) https://t.me/begode_master/10528

That makes sense that the EX20S would feel more progressive - the air shock will provide a progressive ramp in spring rate at the end of the travel, which the EX20S can reach, but the Master cannot. They apparently use the same shock, and the EX20S can essentially fully compress the shock, while the Master only compresses it to about half of the stroke.

Edited June 1, 2022 by redfoxdude

[Tawpie]

I stumbled across this... it's the best I've seen that explains what's happening in the linkage and shock.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Tawpie

[Wolverine]

[Rawnei]

Wow with all those improvements from Begode it seems like early batch buyers got bamboozled.

[UtahRider]

So EWheels mentions delivery in about 2 months from now. So is that August not July delivery?

[techyiam]

1 minute ago, UtahRider said:

So EWheels mentions delivery in about 2 months from now. So is that August not July delivery?

Or, it could be 2nd batch delivery?

[Kutvis]

1st batch of Master was shipped April 15 by retail seller info. Same shipment as the KS20, should arrive.. In June but I doubt this as sea cargo could take up to 3mnth even before the Korona.

[UtahRider]

Hmm, I need to order something from EWheels tomorrow and will see if I can get clarification.