Begode Master 134V 2400WH Suspension

[Paradox]

They need to put a "This wheel is for display purposes only.  Any use will void your warranty" notice inside the box.

[Grimm10]

Has anyone looked at how some testers are riding this thing?  I don't plan on riding it like that. 

[meepmeepmayer]

Yea, the combination of 3000€ price and a top box built from crispbread (figuratively) that is clearly neither waterproof nor crashproof has really soured me on this wheel.

I was going to overlook the "only" 2400Wh, and the performance and looks and pedal height are perfect. But no, Begode have to do something dumb like they always do.

I just want a new wheel Just give it a closed metal box and some bumpers FFS.

[meepmeepmayer]

I would not be surprised if many people remove the kickstand, and future wheels won't have it. It seems no more stable than leaning the wheel against something, and serves no other purpose besides being leverage for transmitting forces into places where they can do serious damage.

I love the simplicity of the new build paradigm where it's just a bunch of separate boxes (for battery packs, the board, lights) on the outside of the motor+pedal assembly. The concept just needs to be done properly. All boxes robust and sealed, and with some proper (and replaceable) bumpers for protection.

Edited May 13, 2022 by meepmeepmayer

[conecones]

3 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I would not be surprised if many people remove the kickstand, and future wheels won't have it. It seems no more stable than leaning the wheel against something, and serves no other purpose besides transmitting forces into places where they can do damage.

The kickstand helps resist some of the torsion that would otherwise be transmitted directly to the suspension mechanism. In other words, it helps hold the two halves of the body together. In a non suspended EUC, the torsion is transmitted directly into axle/hollow motor, which is very beefy. I agree that the kickstand is annoying low, but it was placed there so it wouldn't interfere with the suspension action. If it was placed above the wheel's axle center, it would need to be extra long or the wheel will hit it.

[meepmeepmayer]

4 minutes ago, conecones said:

The kickstand helps resist some of the torsion that would otherwise be transmitted directly to the suspension mechanism.

Good point.

Do you think this could be achieved by a pair of good backing plates on the motor? Or maybe beefier sliders? There must be a better solution that does not endanger the wheel structure (I'm starting to think these kickstand do that in a crash).

[The Brahan Seer]

or having two sliders like the S18 or S20?

[Tawpie]

6 hours ago, MadVlad said:

if you hit it hard enough the frame is going to get bent

A rider on this forum's discord server actually cracked/broke the frame... it looks to be a casting.

[conecones]

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Good point.

Do you think this could be achieved by a pair of good backing plates on the motor? Or maybe beefier sliders? There must be a better solution that does not endanger the wheel structure (I'm starting to think these kickstand do that in a crash).

Backing plate or stronger sliders would help but they are likely too cost prohibitive. Maybe the cheapest solution would be to not make the kickstand out of pot metal?  I think there is some merit to this design of an additional "brace" to hold the body together - we see this in the S18 and S20 as well even though they have two sliders on each side. The only wheel we don't see this is the V11 which makes sense as that wheel suspends just the pedals rather than the wheel. Perhaps it would be best to mimic the S18 design where the brace/kickstand is lifted higher so it doesn't get caught as easily in a crash. It can be treated as a sacrificial "bumper" to guard against impact to the top of the body where the board is held.

[alcatraz]

U-stride recently said that apart from maybe the Nikola, no wheel is really made for crashing, and it seems to continue on with the latest generation.

The question is then, what can one do to reduce damage? Foam padding?

[alcatraz]

When is an egg/round shaped suspension wheel going to be released? That could perhaps take a heavier beating before it's unrideable.

[EMA]

it seems to me a hard accident, perhaps unfortunate in some way. this wheel has been crashed several times with almost no damage ...

I don't see any problems or something new, if you crash you can break something

standard shell covered wheels are way more robust, EX / EXN shell is king in that way.
we need to save weight and those new open design need to be tested imho, the plus is that they are "square" and easy for DIY 3D mod

 

 

[Grimm10]

Anyone here get a Master via regular means yet?  That is to say, without any connections to Sellers or having shipped by air?

I just wondered if there are any regular Joes that bought their wheel via a website.

[Whalesmash]

3 hours ago, Grimm10 said:

Anyone here get a Master via regular means yet?  That is to say, without any connections to Sellers or having shipped by air?

I just wondered if there are any regular Joes that bought their wheel via a website.

Mid June is the expected delivery date for my wheel off of AliExpress. I would expect the US retailers are getting the same batch at roughly the same time. 

[The Brahan Seer]

Pretty robust considering....

 

[gon2fast]

33 minutes ago, Whalesmash said:

I would expect the US retailers are getting the same batch at roughly the same time.

When I checked in with eWheels earlier this week they said that they expected their first Master deliveries sometime in July.

[Paul A]

Why wasn't the rider wearing gloves?

Why did the rider ignore the beeps?

A metal belt buckle....

 

Why isn't the lazy rolling jacket attached to the pants with a zipper?

 

 

 

Predator helmets appear to be for skateboards.  Chin bar may not be sufficiently strong enough for high speed impacts.

DH6-Xg

In stock

$395.00

• Meets CPSC bicycle standard and is CE-1078 certified for bicycles and skateboards

Edited May 14, 2022 by Paul A

[EMA]

4 hours ago, Grimm10 said:

Anyone here get a Master via regular means yet?  That is to say, without any connections to Sellers or having shipped by air?

I just wondered if there are any regular Joes that bought their wheel via a website.

end of may if i'm lucky, so... jun

[supercurio]

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Pretty robust considering....

One thing we can learn here is that on the Master with 50E cells, you must decelerate as soon as you hear the first beep.
If you keep a constant speed following the first beep like Andrew did, the battery voltage sags down so quick that the safety margin goes from 20% to 0 in a second, ending up in an overlean crash.

Would not be as bad with Samsung 40T or Molicel P42A.
Is the PWM alarm well calibrated in the Master? I'd argue that at least for the 50E version it is clearly not, riding beeps like he did is not uncommon on other fast wheels.

Edited May 14, 2022 by supercurio

[EMA]

4 minutes ago, supercurio said:

One thing we can learn here is that on the Master with 50E cells, you must decelerate as soon as you hear the first beep.
If you keep a constant speed following the first beep like Andrew did, the battery voltage sags down so quick that the safety margin goes from 20% to 0 in a second, ending up in an overlean crash.

Would not be as bad with Samsung 40T or Molicel P42A.
Is the PWM alarm well calibrated in the Master? I'd argue that at least for the 50E version it is clearly not, riding beeps like he did is not uncommon on other fast wheels.

a crash like this is simply caused by the end of motor rpm, nothing related to battery sag 

[Tawpie]

21 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Why wasn't the rider wearing gloves?

Generally, you have to go with very thin gloves to fit under flexmeters. Might not do much good (but probably better than nothing). And you probably can't use your phone.

22 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Why isn't the jacket attached to the pants with a zipper?

Lazyrolling gear doesn't come with zippers. Probably because it is already terribly expensive, wasn't intended for motorcycle speeds, and there are compatibility issues with the various pants. You can definitely add zippers, I'm convinced part of the reason my Rev'It gear is so expensive is that somebody had to figure out how to make all the parts zipper together.

24 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Why did the rider ignore the beeps?

Because… Begode. Or Icarus.

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Pretty robust considering....

Yeah, at that speed you're pretty much going to total any wheel .

But I don't think you ever want Master to cartwheel—that's the second cracked/broken frame reported in the last few days… first one was at 16 mph. Mind the beeps, cutouts could end up being very expensive.

[Silver]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Why wasn't the rider wearing gloves?

Why did the rider ignore the beeps?

A metal belt buckle....

 

Why isn't the lazy rolling jacket attached to the pants with a zipper?

I swear, no amount of gear is good enough for you people. Can't you just be glad he could walk it off. A bit of road rash is a small price considering he crashed at around 45mph

[supercurio]

1 hour ago, EMA said:

a crash like this is simply caused by the end of motor rpm, nothing related to battery sag 

Maximum motor RPM has a linear relationship with voltage, therefore yes it's directly linked to battery sag.

We don't have data for this crash but in the next one, you'll most likely see that:

Beeps occurred at 45 mph, 116V (fantasy numbers)

Rider maintained 45 mph; 1s later after draining 45A continuous from the pack, voltage went down to 102V

102V not enough to push enough current into the motor for the torque required to fight the aero drag: overlean crash (again fantasy numbers)

However if your pack is a lot less prone to rapidly increasing voltage sag with high continuous drain, such crash is less likely to happen.

Either way, the safety margin was demonstrated not being well calibrated for all voltages on the Master for the 50E pack.

[EMA]

32 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Maximum motor RPM has a linear relationship with voltage, therefore yes it's directly linked to battery sag.

We don't have data for this crash but in the next one, you'll most likely see that:

Beeps occurred at 45 mph, 116V (fantasy numbers)

Rider maintained 45 mph; 1s later after draining 45A continuous from the pack, voltage went down to 102V

102V not enough to push enough current into the motor for the torque required to fight the aero drag: overlean crash (again fantasy numbers)

However if your pack is a lot less prone to rapidly increasing voltage sag with high continuous drain, such crash is less likely to happen.

Either way, the safety margin was demonstrated not being well calibrated for all voltages on the Master for the 50E pack.

we are talking about two different things

the reason of the crash is simply ignoring beeps, once you reach 100% of the motor you'll fall , it's not a question of power or battery in this case, it's lacking of speed/rpm to hold your lean.

having a different battery %, capacity or higher discharge cells will only change the speed you'll fall 

Edited May 14, 2022 by EMA