Begode Master 134V 2400WH Suspension

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, redfoxdude said:

1 hour ago, redfoxdude said:

Eevees said they were bottoming out a 750lb spring just by standing on it

 

Seems madness that Begode would design a linkage with so much leverage ratio that a 750lb spring bottoms out with just the weight of a rider on it. Thats insane.

[techyiam]

17 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Seems madness that Begode would design a linkage with so much leverage ratio that a 750lb spring bottoms out with just the weight of a rider on it. Thats insane.

On second thought, perhaps they decided on a shorter shock stroke (thus more compact shock), and a stronger spring, as oppose to a longer stroke and a weaker spring.

[Tawpie]

BG has fielded a high pressure design (high 'spring' force) before, didn't the EX suspension run at something like 1200 psi?

[Planemo]

16 minutes ago, techyiam said:

On second thought, perhaps they decided on a shorter shock stroke (thus more compact shock), and a stronger spring, as oppose to a longer stroke and a weaker spring.

That would mean crazy air can pressures though, way over the usual for 'MTB' type air shocks. I don't think it would bode well for the seals/stiction levels given the internal diameters used.

10 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

BG has fielded a high pressure design (high 'spring' force) before, didn't the EX suspension run at something like 1200 psi?

High pressure is needed when dealing with narrow bore, long travel shocks (like the V11 also). No way around it when using such small bores.

Edit: and don't get confused between PSI and spring poundage

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Planemo

[Tawpie]

It seems to me that pedal strikes when the suspension compresses are part of the deal when riding gnarly single track. It doesn't matter if the hanger hit the rock or the actual pedal, when a suspension compresses the pedal height is reduced. That's just part of the 'cost' of suspension—you may very well compress yourself into a rock and will want to adapt and pick your lines accordingly. Kind of similar to riding a lower-height non suspension wheel... you care about slightly different things in the path ahead.

[Hansolo]

FR & EN subtitles available
Organized with GYROROUE SHOP a test session to discover the BEGODE MASTER in the Bois de Vincennes. (Paris France)

 

 

[Whalesmash]

1 hour ago, Planemo said:

Someone mentioned that a shock with a piggyback reservoir wont fit, is that confirmed?

Unconfirmed, but judging from the geometry of the suspension, it doesn't look like it will work. If you put the piggyback with the top towards the rear, it would smack into the bar in the lower linkage. If you put it the other way around with the top facing forwards, it would probably smack into the bottom of the motherboard tray. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Whalesmash

[conecones]

2 hours ago, Planemo said:

Seems madness that Begode would design a linkage with so much leverage ratio that a 750lb spring bottoms out with just the weight of a rider on it. Thats insane.

I agree, this doesn't seem to add up. If we assume the Master uses the same shock as the Hero (190x50) and the same travel (80) then the avg. leverage ratio is much lower than a typical MTB shock, where 50mm shock travel = 120-150mm wheel travel for a leverage ratio of 2:1 to 3:1. On the Master/Hero this leverage ratio would be about 60% of the MTB setup, which would mean you would need less air pressure/spring weight, but since all of the rider weight is on the shock on an EUC vs a 40/60 front/rear shock distribution on a bike, they should almost cancel each other out. This should theoretically bring the Master shock spring rate back to something similar to a MTB setup for the same weight rider..?. 

Are there Hero owners who are also saying the stock shock is bottoming out too easily?

[EMA]

the linkage ration on the master should be 1.6  80mm travel / 50mm shock travel, MTB usually are 2.x or more

more linear than progressive that's why heavy riders need lot of air to not bottom out

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, Whalesmash said:

Unconfirmed, but judging from the geometry of the suspension, it doesn't look like it will work. If you put the piggyback with the top towards the rear, it would smack into the bar in the lower linkage. If you put it the other way around with the top facing forwards, it would probably smack into the bottom of the motherboard tray. 

How about with the reservoir upside down?

10 minutes ago, EMA said:

the linkage ration on the master should be 1.6  80mm travel / 50mm shock travel, MTB usually are 2.x or more

more linear than progressive that's why heavy riders need lot of air to not bottom out

Linear/progressive spring curves should not be confused with travel.

Could have two identical travel bikes, but with completely different leverage curves.

If anything, a reduction in leverage ratio should reduce the required air pressure/spring rate, not increase it.

Out of interest, how much travel does the S18 have?

 

[Tawpie]

52 minutes ago, conecones said:

Are there Hero owners who are also saying the stock shock is bottoming out too easily?

shibby_time took the Hero *with a replacement shock* to some mtn bike jumps and had to lock out the suspension because it was bottoming out and gouging up the landing area. He was fine with it on the street in stock form. But the way he rides... it's a lot to expect.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Tawpie

[Whalesmash]

2 hours ago, Planemo said:

How about with the reservoir upside down?

I don't imagine one would have very much luck with that orientation either. If the reservoir is pointing down, it would either hit the lower linkage bar in the rear (adjustment pointing rearwards) or smack into that metal mudguard that covers the tire (adjustment pointing forwards). I'm basing most of this off of the pictures from Jimmy's blog here: https://eucguide.com/the-begode-master-review-a-suspension-electric-unicycle-with-power/

[MadVlad]

so it sounds like we need a good replacement street tire and a good alternative shock.

[Tawpie]

35 minutes ago, MadVlad said:

so it sounds like we need a good replacement street tire and a good alternative shock.

Tires are tires and different for everyone (interested to hear what folks think of the K66 on Master!), but assuming the shock can handle the pressure, a better shock pump might be all you need.

I do think you want to be cautious with the shock replacement... I was thinking about shibby_time being able to garf up the landing area on the Hero with a 'different' shock—it had to be that the shock allowed the suspension to compress so much that the pedal hangers or some other body part made it to the ground. It's the only way it could have left the gouges it did. You want to make sure the shock hits a hard stop before the pedal hangers get "too" low... usually you rely on the bumper on the shock piston but you have to make sure the piston travel matches what the linkage was designed for. Too much travel in the piston and you might also have other problems with how the linkage works.

And if you put a coil over on it, you have to be mindful of coil binding.

Just saying that it might not be as simple as "if it fits, it ships".

Edited May 3, 2022 by Tawpie

[MadVlad]

21 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Tires are tires and different for everyone (interested to hear what folks think of the K66 on Master!), but assuming the shock can handle the pressure, a better shock pump might be all you need.

I do think you want to be cautious with the shock replacement... I was thinking about shibby_time being able to garf up the landing area on the Hero with a 'different' shock—it had to be that the shock allowed the suspension to compress so much that the pedal hangers or some other body part made it to the ground. It's the only way it could have left the gouges it did. You want to make sure the shock hits a hard stop before the pedal hangers get "too" low... usually you rely on the bumper on the shock piston but you have to make sure the piston travel matches what the linkage was designed for. Too much travel in the piston and you might also have other problems with how the linkage works.

And if you put a coil over on it, you have to be mindful of coil binding.

Just saying that it might not be as simple as "if it fits, it ships".

yeah I hear that

[Tawpie]

Another thought... why did BG go to the trouble of having a custom shock designed for EX20S and Master? Here's my guess: max payload exceeds what the cheap MTB shocks can deal with unless you use the leverage in the linkage to reduce the load.

Think about it. An 80 lb wheel with a 200 lb rider is a 280 lb payload on a single shock. MTB rear shocks are designed assuming they will share the load between two wheels, and honestly a 280 lb static load on the rear bike shock seems like it would be rare. Drop the payload a foot or three and the shock has an awful lot of energy to absorb. At the very least you're at the high (expensive) end of what is available in a rear bike shock.

It could be that the linkage design is such that a custom shock was required.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Tawpie

[MadVlad]

16 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Another thought... why did BG go to the trouble of having a custom shock designed for EX20S and Master? Here's my guess: max payload exceeds what the cheap MTB shocks can deal with unless you use the leverage in the linkage to reduce the load.

Think about it. An 80 lb wheel with a 200 lb rider is a 280 lb payload on a single shock. MTB rear shocks are designed assuming they will share the load between two wheels, and honestly a 280 lb static load on the rear bike shock seems like it would be rare. Drop the payload a foot or three and the shock has an awful lot of energy to absorb. At the very least you're at the high (expensive) end of what is available in a rear bike shock.

It could be that the linkage design is such that a custom shock was required.

This worries me because Im really hoping there is some alternative we can use like a Fox or RockShox. Not liking the idea that only the factory shock is viable. Still, something tells me that the high end MTB shocks will work if you dont do really big jumps, and since I mostly want the suspension for street riding, aka bad roads and sudden potholes ... thats fine by me.

Does anyone know what size tires will fit on this thing? I see that apparently some motorcycle tires will work and some bicycle tires? But the sizings are all over the place...

[redfoxdude]

1 minute ago, MadVlad said:

This worries me because Im really hoping there is some alternative we can use like a Fox or RockShox. Not liking the idea that only the factory shock is viable. Still, something tells me that the high end MTB shocks will work if you dont do really big jumps, and since I mostly want the suspension for street riding, aka bad roads and sudden potholes ... thats fine by me.

The stock shock was pretty close for me, just needed a little volume reduction. I hope a Fox or RockShox works okay, too.

1 minute ago, MadVlad said:

Does anyone know what size tires will fit on this thing? I see that apparently some motorcycle tires will work and some bicycle tires? But the sizings are all over the place...

18x3.0, 2.75-14, 80/90-14. Hahaha tire sizes are something else, yes.
Lots of options here 

And there's this Master specific discussion here, but not a lot there yet.

All said, I did try a Master with the Michelin Pilot Street in 80/90-14, and it was quite nice! Much more nimble and controllable (but again I'm coming from riding the H666 and not knobbies). Didn't feel like it wanted to stay leaned or fall over on tight turns, I liked it. Really want to try the K66 though.

[redfoxdude]

I forgot to say, I took a closer look at the battery cables this weekend when I got another test ride. The high-temperature sleeve does appear to have an outer layer of silicone or something similar, and silicone sealant at the entry point to the top of the pack.
It seems reasonably "splash" resistant out of the box, but as is the usual for a Begode/GotWay, there are definitely ingress points around the Master overall. More attention to details like that would be nice, but it's Begode 🙄 Fortunately it looks like it shouldn't be too challenging to get some decent sealing, though that really shouldn't be our responsibility.

[gon2fast]

Which tire is this? 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by gon2fast

[redfoxdude]

Perhaps the Kenda K340? Hard to tell with such a low resolution, though.
EDIT: pretty sure it's the Kenda K340:

Edited May 4, 2022 by redfoxdude
Added comparison photo w/ enhancements

[gon2fast]

It does not look like a 340a or h666.

Thanks everyone.

Edited May 4, 2022 by gon2fast

[EMA]

2 hours ago, gon2fast said:

Which tire is this? 

 

100% sure is the kenda k340

[sffish]

 

[Freeforester]