Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[PourUC]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

But you are, you are saying KS should magically invent new safety mechanisms that we don't already have and you argue for less options, I mean if they have a tilt-back that the user can select which speed they want it to tilt-back or disable it completely if they want, that would be a great option no? Same thing if the wheel can do 100kmh you don't personally have to go that fast but you will have plenty of margin for your personal style of riding.

The whole "I don't need this so you don't either" type of argumentation isn't constructive.

If the wheel doesn't go fast enough for you... don't buy it.

I am not saying Kingsong should magically do anything. What I have said isn't a hard concept to grasp. Increase operating voltage to lower operating current. Use the current headroom to increase the safety margin to reduce/eliminate cutoff.

I am not the one who invented the 126v rumour. So far, the 100v is the top and was apparently fine... all that I have said here is they will treat the wheel as if it's 100v in terms of performance and are using the extra voltage for extra headroom.

In regards to configurable tiltback... suxs. Kingsong ALEADY limit their wheels top speed. What I am suggesting isn't new as an idea. What is new is pushing it further than Kingsong do at the moment.

There isn't a shred of "I don't need this so you don't either". All I have done... once again. Is look at the 126v rumour and provided a reason as to why Kingsong have chosen it.

[RagingGrandpa]

Anyway...

[KNZ]

I love the subtlety of the 3, 2, 1 being an eagle flying in and landing. THE EAGLE HAS LANDED! I REPEAT. THE EAGLE HAS LANDED. 

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, PourUC said:

I am not saying anything crazy.

Perhaps not, but your terminology or wording was such that it seemed to be prone for misunderstandings.

There’s no such thing as “100V specs”. There can be powerful and less powerful, just like there can be fast and slow 100V wheels. As an example, look at the original Inmotion V8 and Gotway MSX, both 84V wheels.

Begode wheel’s don’t have a fixed speed tilt-back. They have a user-adjustable tilt-back just like all other wheels, but in addition it can be removed completely.

KS safety records broke unintentionally with the 16X, but I’m absolutely sure that they will never give the user an option to remove the top speed tilt-back. GW/BG users have made it blatantly clear that allowing the removal causes numerous crashes at the wheel’s maximum speed.

KS and GW/BG customer base has of course been extremely different for many years, and comparing their behavior or reasons for crashing doesn’t work very well. People who want to push the speed capabilities of EUCs have so far all had to buy a GW/BG/Veteran.

Imagine if the Nikola had consumed it’s power reserves at 28mph, and riding past that would be dangerously close to an overlean. The amount of pitchforks would’ve been obscene. Yet, KS has been able to keep selling the 16X very successfully for a few years already, without more than a handful of disappointed owners.

 I’m not expecting the S20 to introduce anything new to company policies and traditions, other than to make the fastest and most powerful wheel they have made so far. I also don’t think they’re going to do anything they couldn’t have also done with a 100V mechanism. The feeling of “Me first!” is rather strong with this one.

If the 126V rumor even pans out that is.

[fryman]

26 minutes ago, KNZ said:

I love the subtlety of the 3, 2, 1 being an eagle flying in and landing. THE EAGLE HAS LANDED! I REPEAT. THE EAGLE HAS LANDED. 

WHERE?!

[MrH]

2 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Anyway...

Appears that they are going with a coil suspension based on this picture.

[conecones]

The coil suspension is interesting...hopefully they did their homework and offers replacement springs with different weights. But when setup right, the reliability and long service intervals are great on coil shocks.

[Silver]

Sure looks like it's going to be a tall wheel

[shellac]

23 minutes ago, MrH said:

Appears that they are going with a coil suspension based on this picture.

That would be awesome and would seriously consider this wheel. No more pumping up the shock. 

But I’m curious, is there anything that would keep one from replacing the s18 shock with a coil shock? Do they come in the same form factor?

[Paul A]

Front and back video cameras with sound recording, removable TF card, would be good.

 

 

[Heyzeus]

7 hours ago, Rotan said:

There's not only the cutoff due to overpowering the whell, sadly having cutout for Mobo failure/burn is also a thing... it's rare but it happened, and supposedly if you plan to stick to your wheel for as long as it works, the day it will stop working it'll do so by giving up on you while you are riding, with any consequence possible.

Not an electrical engineer so I may be asking stupid questions here but what causes the mobo and components to fail primarily?

Is it vibrations creating micro cracks in solder, and other components and them just wearing out with time and oxidation?

 

If it is them just wearing out with time, I wonder if it's possible to detect how close to failure a mosfet, capacitor, motherboard circuits/pathways are by measuring the resistance across the power path.  If the measured resistance is xyz when brand new and after 4 years of use and oxidation the measured resistance has increased could one reliably find a number that indicates the parts are close to failure and pop a warning message that says the wheel is close to failure and disable it for anything but trolling until the issue is fixed.

7 hours ago, Rotan said:

This is in my opinion the one and only weak point of our beloved eucs, and needs to be addressed.

Right now the way you address that is by selling it used at the 2-3 year point and letting the eventual cutout be someone elses problem

It's a less than ideal solution indeed.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Heyzeus

[Paul A]

https://www.ansys.com/blog/top-5-reasons-solder-joint-failure

[RockyTop]

7 minutes ago, Paul A said:

https://www.ansys.com/blog/top-5-reasons-solder-joint-failure

Top 5 reasons? My #1 did not even make the list. The #1 reason that I find is improper cleaning of the board before soldiering. Almost all of the failures we find are internal corrosion. They use acid to clean the boards. They do not properly remove the acid. 10 years later the connection fails due to acid corrosion. The corrosion is between the solder and the wire. 

[Mango]

These motor power ratings are getting ridiculous as they are so arbitrary.

3300 watt motor

Still, the S20 looks enticing.

[Unbihexium]

2 hours ago, Silver said:

Sure looks like it's going to be a tall wheel

Oh man, that does look tall indeed, especially with that "hat" piece sitting so high up. From what I see so far, the anesthetic of this wheel reminds me of some kind of Gundam. If the new Begode Hero is pure communism, then this thing is pure anime. Gotta get me a helmet with cat ears to ride this thing. 

Kinda worried about what'll happen to the spikey bits in the back during a crash though, those don't look to be made of metal like the shock is. They also might hurt somebody or cause the wheel to bounce erratically when it hits the ground during a faceplant. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Unbihexium

[meepmeepmayer]

13 minutes ago, Unbihexium said:

If the new Begode Hero is pure communism, then this thing is pure anime.

[.....]

Fine, I GUESS I'll let somebody send me one and I'll review it. I'll send it back when I'm done, but can't make promises it will survive intact.

 

[MrH]

3 hours ago, shellac said:

That would be awesome and would seriously consider this wheel. No more pumping up the shock. 

But I’m curious, is there anything that would keep one from replacing the s18 shock with a coil shock? Do they come in the same form factor?

This person appears to have done so: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1393867080813545/posts/1512117578988494/

[Whalesmash]

3 hours ago, shellac said:

That would be awesome and would seriously consider this wheel. No more pumping up the shock. 

But I’m curious, is there anything that would keep one from replacing the s18 shock with a coil shock? Do they come in the same form factor?

Did mine a little around 6 months ago. It's a drop in replacement. I find that it responds to terrain quicker and smoother than the old air shock. The best thing is that there's no maintenance (unless you want to do major service on the oil chamber or something). The stock air shock leaked constantly on my model, and eventually the negative chamber died. I am looking forward to the S20's coil setup.

[Lukasz]

I use on my S18XL   FOX Float DPX2 and it MAKES the difference when comparing to the original one.  Coils springs are usually not the best solution unless it is high end shock - and we can not exepct that KS will install shock valued 1/2 of the wheel cost.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Lukasz

[Lukasz]

See here

 

 

[itsmark]

I am not so much worried about the performance of the shock as I am the amount of friction in the linkage and slider assemblies. I hope they learned their lesson with the s18 on that one.

[meepmeepmayer]

126V

Can't wait to see how the board looks for that.

[KNZ]

Oh man. 70kmh would be my ideal sweet spot. Please be true, please be true…

[Rotan]

If these specs are real, it's good.

It's the best by a huge margin and Inmotion and begode will have to work hard to stay relevant in the top end eucs... God, begode will be ashamed with their hero. 

I can see a few road runners disappointed by the max speed but for all the others, this definetly removes the cutoff by overpower.