(New) Gotway " Extreme Bull " Commander leaked datasheet

[ugoaps]

10 minutes ago, Paul A said:

 102 kph.  How many riders are realistically going to go that fast?

It is the freespin speed, not the real one. Even so I think the real one will be around 80kmh, crazy

[DjPanJan]

More safety margin more love ! 

[RagingGrandpa]

55 minutes ago, Paul A said:

 102 kph [freespin]

100V, C30 motor, 18" tire

We've seen this configuration 5 times already, and we know how fast it goes (~100kph freespin; daredevils can ride 80kph bursts).

The newness is the C38 option with 3kWh+

[Mango]

Any truth to Kuji Rolls having a cutout on the Commander at 30mph? If so, I wouldn’t be surprised.

Gotway/Begode spin off Extreme Bull seems a play to limit liability. Another Gotway Nikola recently caught fire after a ride (just sitting not charging).

[Paul A]

Kuji having a cut out on the Commander?

Nikola catching on fire?

Is there a link/source to info?

[Rawnei]

36 minutes ago, Mango said:

Any truth to Kuji Rolls having a cutout on the Commander at 30mph? If so, I wouldn’t be surprised.

Gotway/Begode spin off Extreme Bull seems a play to limit liability. Another Gotway Nikola recently caught fire after a ride (just sitting not charging).

You're asking us, yet you're the one bringing the rumor over here, where did you hear it?

[Paul A]

burned out gotway nikola 100v 1800 Wh, сгорело моно колесо

Sep 21, 2021

Click the 'cc" on youtube video to have English subtitles.

 

[That Guy]

On 10/9/2021 at 9:54 PM, Mango said:

Any truth to Kuji Rolls having a cutout on the Commander at 30mph? If so, I wouldn’t be surprised.

 EUC Rumour Generator: is it true that ______ (add a name) had a cutout on ______ (add an EUC)? 

[mrelwood]

24 minutes ago, That Guy said:

 EUC Rumour Generator: is it true that ______ (add a name) had a cutout on ______ (add an EUC)? 

EUC rumor generator addendum:

I was told that ______ (add simply any piece of fiction that reflects your hopes or fears, or for example something that you think might be harmful for anyone).

Edited October 11, 2021 by mrelwood

[Paul A]

Perhaps check Kuji's facebook, instagram, etc., or message him.

Seems member was trying to alert others to possibility of Commander cutting out and seeking confirmation of his information.

Member was correct about Gotway Nikola recently catching fire.

 

 

[mike_bike_kite]

Did anybody manage to sit through the whole video? I have the same wheel but I still only managed to get to 3 minutes in before the continual flashbacks drove me insane. Was there any more information other than the wheel was charging at the time and that he ended up with a small burn on his finger?

[DjPanJan]

Back to topic:

Not expect anything form e-rides they "reviews" is joke mostly time. But i like this motor sound. Sad is CST knobby choice Wrongway(Adam) say is not good compare to kenda knobby because turn behavior because diferent center patern on CST knobby.(i talk about use on street/asphalt)

I hope in some incline or overheat test in near future and range test too.

Well say in this video no real reson buy C30 version over sherman but C38 have potencial fill market gap for riders like me who want torque sherman version.(I personaly not ride over 30Mph all season speed limit set to 43km/h on sheerman is enouch for me) 

[Jason McNeil]

On 10/9/2021 at 5:54 AM, Mango said:

Any truth to Kuji Rolls having a cutout on the Commander at 30mph? If so, I wouldn’t be surprised.

I can confirm this, it was a HS/C30 type. Begode just received his machine back for evaluation, of course there was the immediate deflection response of 'it's just this one machine, here's a video showing 68MPH under no-load'...  

We told our shipping agent to hold sending 2x HSs out until BG have a satisfactory explanation. Marty has received a HT/C38, with caution about the earlier cut-out event on the HS.   

Edited October 11, 2021 by Jason McNeil

[Marty Backe]

14 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

I can confirm this, it was a HS/C30 type. Begode just received his machine back for evaluation, of course there was the immediate deflection response of 'it's just this one machine, here's a video showing 68MPH under no-load'...  

We told our shipping agent to hold sending 2x HSs out until BG have a satisfactory explanation. Marty has received a HT/C38, with caution about the earlier cut-out event on the HS.   

Did the control board actually fail or was it a cutout that allowed him to continue riding?

[Jon Stern]

14 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

I can confirm this, it was a HS/C30 type. Begode just received his machine back for evaluation, of course there was the immediate deflection response of 'it's just this one machine, here's a video showing 68MPH under no-load'...  

We told our shipping agent to hold sending 2x HSs out until BG have a satisfactory explanation. Marty has received a HT/C38, with caution about the earlier cut-out event on the HS.   

Perhaps a more important question is, is Kuji okay?

[supercurio]

18 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

I can confirm this, it was a HS/C30 type. Begode just received his machine back for evaluation, of course there was the immediate deflection response of 'it's just this one machine, here's a video showing 68MPH under no-load'...  

We told our shipping agent to hold sending 2x HSs out until BG have a satisfactory explanation. Marty has received a HT/C38, with caution about the earlier cut-out event on the HS.   

Thanks for the info @Jason McNeil, I hope Kuji is okay.

It sounds like @ThaBlackCobra 's Monster Pro's inexplicable "just this one" machine failure with no identifiable root cause yet with devastating consequences.

This is the pattern, because although failure leading to a crash is not a Gotway/Begode/ExtremeBull exclusive, it seems that on other brands the cause of failure is identifiable.
Either because some component burned or because there's a black box recording telemetry, allowing to identifying error in the software (Inmotion).

Since this OEM has a history of inexplicable failures, I would strongly recommend to require them to add a logging capability on the board which stores all high-resolution sensor input and algorithm output over a period of few hours.
Data storage IC with the capability needed are readily available for micro-controllers.

This would most likely help them fix a couple long-lasting nasty bugs unaccounted for, but that have done a lot of damage over the years.
And in case there's another type of failure, it will go a long way to help figure out that hall sensor input was erratic for a second or anything like that.

Edited October 12, 2021 by supercurio

[Paul A]

What is the legality if Kuji or one day another rider dies from a cut out?

Loss of control, fall under the wheels of a bus/truck, recorded by surveillance video..

Is the liability on the overseas Chinese manufacturer?

Is the importer deemed to be liable? 

Installing battery packs custom manufactured to specifications may be taking on the onus of product liability...

[Planemo]

18 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Is the liability on the overseas Chinese manufacturer?

Haha good one!

18 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Installing battery packs custom manufactured to specifications may be taking on the onus of product liability...

But you do have a point with that one...especially if it is deemed the fault was to do with the packs... 

[RagingGrandpa]

Backe is Back!

Quote

Transcript
yo brother
it's time for us to start talking the
real man
we've been sugarcoating too much we've
got to start calling everything out for
what it is
[Music]
well
a new wheel is in the house and this is
the gatway commander very excited to get
this wheel
this is courtesy of jason at e wheels
thanks again jason i really appreciate
it he's giving me the first crack at
this wheel just flown in from china
so i am really excited about this
uh
so in this video
i'm just going to be
giving you my
first impressions of the wheel
i'm going to
look it over closely
show you everything
in 4k resolution
give you some close-up views of the
different elements of it
and
open it up take a look inside see what
we see
and go from there
so
okay so
the box was open at some level anyway
because we have uh
e wheels they always throw on wrist
guards which i i think is great
particularly for new riders who just
you know when i started riding i didn't
wear wrist guards for believe it or not
i think about a year
things have changed
extreme bull
user manual warranty guide
and uh
looks like you would get what you get
from gatway except uh
all i see is extreme bow
mud guard let's see how that works
charger
well
that's the
typical gatway
3 amp charger
just like with the monster 3 600 watt
hours of battery
when are they gonna
go up a level to uh
like on the
sherman at least give us a five amp
charger i think five amps should be
standard nowadays
okay let's see
okay so
it has uh
it comes with
power the power pads i'll share those
little bits and the wheel
if i can get this out
uh
[Music]
nothing like a new wheel
always exciting
i think back to when i got my first
wheel
about five and a half years ago now
it was uh
it was so cool
so i'm curious about whether this
has a safety
where it's locked
all right yeah because i didn't think
this had a lift switch
so unlike all the gatway wheels you know
we have to unlock them when you get them
and it's got this uh
so it's got the
led display up top
i'll show you this closer in a little
bit but uh
i can already already tell it looks like
it's going to be hard to hard to see
this thing in the
in the daylight
so it'll probably be most useful when
you are stopped but we'll see
one first
impression i get
when i lifted this
out of the box i'm turning this off
is that
where you you lift it okay like in the
sherman you've got the roll cage right
this isn't a row cage but
these edges are sharp
so
it digs into your hand when you're
lifting it up now of course you're not
going to be walking around like this
for very long right but right now
it's hurting my hands much more than the
muscles in my arms in terms of lifting
it
so
that part is not the best ergonomically
let me get up on the stand we can take a
closer look
okay let me give you a little 360 view
you can see the
leds
there's a nice nice look to it they're
kind of plain but um
looks like there's six
six or seven different modes it's just
like a it's it's a godway wheel i mean
use the power button
to cycle through
each of them
or you can do it with the app
i've connected with euc world
and i can configure the whole wheel
with eoc world
and i just configured it as a monster
pro
close up of the tire which is a cst
knobby
it's the same one that's on my exn
and it is
i'm going to have to adjust it
as i rotate you might
be able to see
it's not exactly true
looks like it's about a sixteenth
there's a sixteenth offset
as i go around
so i have to let the air out and squeeze
it and fill it a few times to
hopefully get it seated on the rim a
little bit better
other than that i really like this tire
on my um ex-n so i think i
should like it here
i couldn't really give you a good view
inside the wheel but uh
it's uh looks nice and clean inside and
obviously it's in it a single axle it's
not a hollow bore
motor which i think we all knew about
but there is no evidence of any kind of
a heat sink
inside the shell
so all the electronics are up here and i
can hear
i think i hear a fan i'm not sure
something whirling away inside
so i'll be opening up this to
see what it looks like
so i'm guessing there's no
electronics inside
on the panels but
i will be taking a closer look
show you the headlights again
i'll see how they behave
whenever when i ride this at night
though
those are the modes just like a typical
gatway well
the side panels are
very flat not perfectly flat there's
little
indentations for this
uh but uh
for all practical purposes they're flat
so that's gonna be uh nice for people
wanna
everyone likes to mount their own types
of
of uh
power pads
so i like that
the plastic's got a nice uh i don't know
it's got a nice feel to it it feels
it feels
it feels better than
than all the guyway wheels i have
something about this plastic
yeah i don't know it's got a nice feel
to it
everywhere they have
this commander they have this tape
over it and i don't know if that was
meant to be
permanent but i think it looks awful so
i'm going to remove it
[Applause]
i suspect this is for like if you
remember the nicola had these kind of uh
lettering on it you
you think godway would learn from that
the stuff would just fall off
but this tape looks uh
looks awful
so i'd rather have this and maybe have
it fall off
uh it feels like it's adhered nicely so
i'm going to remove this and
all of these uh
areas
and the petals
they feel nice
nice and solid
and
they're spiked petals
not too aggressive
not too many i guess i'll just have to
see how it feels when i'm riding it
so
branded commander
now they are magnetic
here and something in here
but uh
they're not very strong
so we'll see
as i'm using it whether they want to pop
off particularly on trails when i'm
walking sometimes when it's rocky
but
not too bad
interesting placement for the speakers
on the back
and you can see the
rear light and if i rotate the tire
so that'll be the effect i'm sure
pretty much like the guy way probably
when you turn they'll go that way
and as soon as it stops it switches back
to
that kind of display
and i'm at about less than 20 battery so
that's probably why there's only two so
i'm guessing there'll be five of those
when it's fully charged
and this maybe
maybe ventilation
for the inside we'll see
all right let's put this mud flap on
feels
pretty stiff
i like the veteran
the sherman mud flap
hopefully it's not so stiff i can't get
it in
you
ah he's always fun
so
so
i got it
all right well we'll see how that lasts
as i use it
here is the display
and uh you see how hard it is to read
into this in the screen
well
that's just as hard to read um
visually
i can see the battery
i can see three
i have no idea what's being displayed
here
charging ports
you got two
that's nice
and this cover
it seems nice
probably it'd be better if it were not
uh directly up but this rubber cover
looks like it's uh
fits very nicely so
i don't think any water would get in
there if it's raining it's a nice fit
here is the trolley handle
feels nice i'm 511 and uh
really nice
i think it's maybe a slight it feels
it was a little hot higher than the
sherman
otherwise pretty much just like the
sherman
and the highest level and it's locking
so that's nice
and guys i gotta tell you you know
i haven't i've not ridden it yet
but these pedals feel huge
i measured them
they're 11 inches
long they stick about five six inches
bigger than any uh
any got wipe
wheel i'm not sure if i'm trying to
think the
in motion v11 had really big pedals
they might have been this big it's hard
to say but these these are huge
they feel great it could be interesting
uh riding with them
okay time to open this up and uh
i think you could
probably take these pen off without
taking the
pedals off but these two screws here i
can't ease i can't really get to them
well enough with any of my screwdrivers
so i'm just going to take the pedals off
it's pretty easy to do
[Music]
it has
separate spacers so that's the
difference with the sherman
pedals for feel really nice though
really solid
by the way valve stem access is great
lots of clearance there so that's nice
again i
can't emphasize how nice this plastic
feels
it's a little things but uh
feels really nice
okay here we go
interesting
no tape
like we see in all the gatway wheels
and some kinks on wheels
there's a gasket
like the
sherman
newer shermans have this gasket it's
funny how
so much of this is like the sherman
really
same thing
yeah it's almost like wouldn't surprise
me they reverse engineered the sherman
at some point
you have two
square holes just like in the sherman
where the wires feed up into this area
the beeper the beeper by the way is not
an adjustable volume
beeper like the guyway wheels now
and
this oh this is the
this is the led these white panels are
the leds
all right that's cool
so michelle
huh it's really well done
it's a nice and
yeah the transition between this clear
plastic and a
matte plastic
i would call this more like a satin kind
of a satin finish
so um
yeah cool
so we have the
padding to keep everything in place
kind of standard
this looks like part of the shell this
rigid part here
looks nice uh this is the right side of
the wheel so it's again consistent with
galway wheels that's where the motor
wire comes out of the
motor
looks
nicely sealed
so i think the only ingress for water
would probably be the
the
trolley handle area
i'll take see if i can get a closer look
to see if it looks like it's sealed at
all
now this is interesting this
is definitely the beeper when you turn
the wheel on
but then
there are
transducers there's one here one here
and i'm going to assume they're on the
other side too so when i turn on the
wheel you're gonna hear that beep
and then it's gonna be a secondary tone
that comes from here
and the speakers
so speakers are bluetooth but then these
tones
hmm that's interesting what's driving
the why are those sounding versus the
beeper
we shall see
maybe and you can see the leds
lit up here
by the way before i put the side panel
back on here is the magnet
with uh
the ever present hot glue
the panels seem uh
they seem sturdy though
and by the way no ridges like in the
sherman
that could potentially cut into here
though when i look on this
wrap
the batteries
all i see batteries so the bms must be
on the inside
which
you would think is actually pretty smart
i've removed the four screws on each
side sherman has two that says four
and
let's see just like i'm sure i'm gonna
have to lift this up a bit
i'm just gonna
very gently so i can see this is
this is moving
so that's nice the sherman they started
putting adhesive here
which is kind of crazy i don't know
for
silicon to keep it water from getting in
i guess
makes a royal pain though to open it up
and that's that
i'm going to take this handle off so i
can
get this control panel out of the way
the sherman has two screws on each side
this only has one
so maybe a little less sturdy
oh nope it has
two on the other side okay so
maybe actually it's better than the
sherman
i've taken these apart
on the sherman so i feel pretty
comfortable doing this
there you go
let me uh give you a shot inside
all right and i turn it on so you can
see the
blinking
light i'm assuming that's for the
bluetooth
saying i'm alive
looks like there's two boards
here's the main board
so i see six so it's probably it's
probably 12 mosfets they're really into
labeling extreme bow i haven't seen
gatway anywhere
on this wheel yet
so it looks like
it's separated this board has the
sound board on it
and the
dc for the all the lights and stuff
uh
i've been
trying to heat this up with a
hot gun with a heat gun and i've been
running it 40 miles per hour for a long
time and i can't get it above 42 degrees
celsius
so i haven't been able to see if there's
a fan i'm assuming right here
these two little wires
going under this so i'm going to assume
that there's a fan down there
now i'm not going to
take this fully apart there's
other
other
channels out there that will do that
uh if they haven't already
so we'll get to later get to see how big
what kind of heatsink they got down
there but i see no evidence of the
heatsink from under from within the
shell
so the only access to air in here or
are some
line of little holes in the front and in
the back
oh i'm sorry in the front there's
two holes near the
lights in the back there's a
line of little holes
so i'm gonna assume that's where air
gets into this guy
i'm just gonna have to write it and see
um
see how it runs whether it runs hot like
the exn which is horrible
or not and
i i like this configuration i tell you
it looks really nice
so far
i would say this is of the same build
quality of the sherman
now to get this control board out looks
like there's one two
there's four screws holding it in
and
it looks like
looks like you probably get it out
without taking the shuttle part
you only know when you actually have to
do it but it's looking that way
they actually have some
um
channels
milled into the plastic that allow the
screw heads
to go down here
so it's definitely intentionally
designed so that's
that's good
i have feeling you could take this out
that
unlike the sherman
it looks like
it looks like there's plenty of uh
slop in the wheel
in the wires and i can't tell the the
wires look like they're the same gauge
of the sherman
i'd be surprised if they're not
so uh
i mean they're at least 12 gauge i'm
sure they're 12 gauge
uh so that's that i i think this is uh
it's looking pretty good
now one thing i'm going to point out
before i put this fully together in
terms of waterproofing
i wouldn't
it's really okay
a mist i suppose but
there's no gaskets in here and uh
i think the weak point would be
would be right around here
i think water could get in on a
rainstorm and then it's really hard to
see how
how the well this is protected but the
batteries are i wouldn't be too
concerned about any little drips getting
into here into the main body
but definitely i think water could get
in around this area
you know heavy rain so
i would not ride this in a rain with i
would do what what i do with the sherman
it was gonna rain i'd have a like a
rain hat
baggie or something that i could just
slip over the top of the shell
to protect it and these power buttons
always weak areas too
all right so there you have it
uh i'm really
impressed with the build quality this is
certainly built as nice as the sherman
and
i i love the quality of the the plastic
and the fit and finish
uh
i don't know this this might be up there
with one of the best gatway built wheels
in terms of fit and finish i love the
plastic i tell you it's really nice
clearly they you gotta give credit to
the veteran for coming up with the
original design and this
this is a copy
of at certain some level right the
the top the trolley handle
this is simulating the
rope cage but horrible design in terms
of they
these will just dig into your hands
these should have been rounded over
that's a knit though you're not going to
be hopefully you're not going to carry
this too much
seems
pretty well sealed against water on the
sides for sure
but i wouldn't ride this in the rain
based on some points and no gaskets
sealing up they put gasket here
they should have really put a gasket
here but they didn't so i would put a
i'd put a bag over the top of this if
you had to ride it and rain
so i'm going to put slime in the tire
i'm going to balance the tire because
it's not riding running quite true
i'm going to put
velcro
here and put clark pads on it i'm not
going to put
their pads on
and uh
and that's it and then i will start
writing it so the next video
on the commander will be me uh
writing it and giving you my first
impressions of the ride quality in terms
of hard soft medium
pedal dip acceleration braking
how hot it runs so forth
alright guys hope this was useful and
i'll talk to you later

 

And, we have a teardown!

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[div]

Nice to see some more detailed hands on impressions as well as the inside. If only it turned out to be reliable and not catch fire I would be quite interested.

(btw can’t remember to have seen this pic here, so in case:)

[AtlasP]

The LiTech packs appear clearly superior to what Begode/Gotway have been using. (See the details including pictures in my recent news roundup: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/17309-up-to-date-euc-comparison-table/?do=findComment&comment=389532 ) And more importantly, it appears they're being manufactured entirely by LiTech and shipped directly to Begode for installation into the wheels at the time of manufacture, so eWheels is not doing any manufacturing or modifications to anything themselves. Essentially eWheels just helped Begode get a new/different supplier of superior packs for a portion of their wheels.

Edited October 13, 2021 by AtlasP

[InfiniteWheelie]

 

[GothamMike]

On 10/10/2021 at 9:13 PM, mrelwood said:

EUC rumor generator addendum:

I was told that ______ (add simply any piece of fiction that reflects your hopes or fears, or for example something that you think might be harmful for anyone).

Elvis, Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie are living privately on a hacienda in the Amazon. The Brazilian Army shoots down any unknown aircraft in the region.

[GothamMike]

On 10/11/2021 at 9:56 AM, Jason McNeil said:

I can confirm this, it was a HS/C30 type. Begode just received his machine back for evaluation, of course there was the immediate deflection response of 'it's just this one machine, here's a video showing 68MPH under no-load'...  

We told our shipping agent to hold sending 2x HSs out until BG have a satisfactory explanation. Marty has received a HT/C38, with caution about the earlier cut-out event on the HS.   

My life and my personal well being are too important to trust the promises of a manufacturer with known quality issues. I don't need to go 5.3 KPH faster than my riding buddies.

[That Guy]

8 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

 

Hmm... Interesting to hear Marty's concern about the high temperature of the wheel. The same concern is hinted in this video (watch about 13:40) even before the ride:

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by That Guy