16x 16x Issues Thread

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Jon Stern said:

With 1.05 (and the Bluetooth update) I get frequent pedal tilts with and without BT music enabled in the app (I tested this yesterday at Jason McNeil's suggestion).

With 1.01 and the BT fix the wheel was very rideable, with pretty much zero random tilt so long as I didn't play music. Now, I'm reluctant to ride this wheel, even though I'm on vacation and had been looking forward to doing so.

Jason looped in @Micheal Shen to our e-mail thread, so I'm hoping to get a response from KS very soon.

I hope something can be done to fix it soon, because I don't have much use for a 52lb, $2k paper weight.

Why?

Edited August 28, 2019 by Patton250

[Jon Stern]

1 hour ago, prasket said:

Thanks for the update Jon. I added your comment to the OP. I wonder if we should start a `16x - BLE Pedal Tilt` thread?

I just got back from a 19 mile ride after re-installing the BT patch (just in case 1.05 over-wrote it). I then recalibrated as the pedals started off it a bad tilt.

For reasons probably completely unrelated to my actions, I got a lot less random tilting than yesterday, but it still wasn't right.

I'm not sure what the variables modulating this are. In both cases I was riding starting from a full charge.

[stephen]

5 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

I just got back from a 19 mile ride after re-installing the BT patch (just in case 1.05 over-wrote it). I then recalibrated as the pedals started off it a bad tilt.

For reasons probably completely unrelated to my actions, I got a lot less random tilting than yesterday, but it still wasn't right.

I'm not sure what the variables modulating this are. In both cases I was riding starting from a full charge.

Does this happen with most 16x or just some, its a bit worrying tbh because if there's forward tilt first reaction is that your going to have a face plant and need to be prepared if these little forward tilts keep happening it might delay things if you ever did faceplant , hope they fix this issue as i want to use the speaker also

[Jon Stern]

1 minute ago, stephen said:

Does this happen with most 16x or just some, its a bit worrying tbh because if there's forward tilt first reaction is that your going to have a face plant and need to be prepared if these little forward tilts keep happening it might delay things if you ever did faceplant , hope they fix this issue as i want to use the speaker also

Some of us seem to be getting random tilts, many others aren't, especially since the Bluetooth patch.

[Julius Plaras]

I am experiencing issues where it seems like it wants to go its own way sometimes. I take it to commute in NYC and so far being on bike line or street has been a bit terrifying because some parts are just unpredictable. People have told me that it's normal and to not fight it but wtf how do you do that when you are going above 15+ mph?

[chrisjunlee]

6 hours ago, Julius Plaras said:

I am experiencing issues where it seems like it wants to go its own way sometimes. I take it to commute in NYC and so far being on bike line or street has been a bit terrifying because some parts are just unpredictable. People have told me that it's normal and to not fight it but wtf how do you do that when you are going above 15+ mph?

First wheel? After 50 miles, you'll get used to it to the point of not noticing it, or rather your muscles figure it out. 

[Julius Plaras]

11 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

First wheel? After 50 miles, you'll get used to it to the point of not noticing it, or rather your muscles figure it out. 

Definitely not my first wheel. Started riding since 2012. Just took the 16x to an old park with a walkway that had cracks and bumps and it definitely felt like it wanted to go with the curves and against my will. I'm 167 with psi of about 40. I've tried 25 psi but it just felt like I was riding on a flat.

[meepmeepmayer]

The terrain following behavior seems to be just the tire (it has a relatively wide and flat profile where it touches the ground). I think that's what you are experiencing. Change the tire to a "rounder" one, e.g. people switched to the stock Nikola tire which doesn't have this effect (or only a tiny bit).

But many people started liking this 16X behavior after a few 100 miles, so see if that works for you too.

[Rehab1]

22 hours ago, Julius Plaras said:

I am experiencing issues where it seems like it wants to go its own way sometimes. I take it to commute in NYC and so far being on bike line or street has been a bit terrifying because some parts are just unpredictable. People have told me that it's normal and to not fight it but wtf how do you do that when you are going above 15+ mph?

I get the same ‘in the groove’  pavement challenges from my 16X as well. I’ve adjusted the PSI countess times and prefer 22-25.

I’ve just learned to compensate and subconsciously decrease my speed anytime a wobble variance is sensed. 

[Rehab1]

On 8/28/2019 at 4:31 AM, stephen said:

Does this happen with most 16x or just some, its a bit worrying tbh because if there's forward tilt first reaction is that your going to have a face plant and need to be prepared if these little forward tilts keep happening it might delay things if you ever did faceplant , hope they fix this issue as i want to use the speaker also

I have not experienced the BT tilt but am keenly aware it may rear it’s ugly head at any moment. I prefer wearing a pint sized BT speaker fastened to my belt until I’m absolutely convinced the cross frequency is resolved. 

[Tom D]

7 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I get the same ‘in the groove’  pavement challenges from my 16X as well. I’ve adjusted the PSI countess times and prefer 22-25.

I’ve just learned to compensate and subconsciously decrease my speed anytime a wobble variance is sensed. 

My experience as well. The 16X will follow the groove or any raised crack. It's very disconcerting and the wheel fights against correction...not much, but enough to grab your attention.  I'm 185 geared up and have been playing with PSI for the last week.  Currently trying 33-35PSI.

[Vanzen]

16 minutes ago, Tom D said:

My experience as well. The 16X will follow the groove or any raised crack. It's very disconcerting and the wheel fights against correction...not much, but enough to grab your attention.  I'm 185 geared up and have been playing with PSI for the last week.  Currently trying 33-35PSI.

Same behaviour than the Z10 so ?

Really creepy at first, then I got used to, then I got utterly  bored with it, sold it, bought a MSX instead and never regreted it ...

So I know that I will never buy a KS16X ...

[mrelwood]

3 minutes ago, Vanzen said:

Same behaviour than the Z10 so ?

Really creepy at first, then I got used to, then I got utterly  bored with it, sold it, bought a MSX instead and never regreted it ...

So I know that I will never buy a KS16X ...

Don’t be so sure... The second (or at least some future) batch of 16X comes with the ChaoYang H-5167 tire, which pretty certainly does not share the Z10 like behaviour. Factory photos showed the new tire already a week ago.

[Julius Plaras]

I shouldn't have to change tires on a brand new $2000 gadget xD. It's a pain in the ass to change tires on these things from what it seems. 

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Julius Plaras said:

I shouldn't have to change tires on a brand new $2000 gadget xD.

I get why it may feel that way. But thinking about it further:

That could be said about any issue on any wheel. And every wheel has such issues, most more than one. Unfortunately the stance doesn’t change the fact that we are at early stages of a very niche hobby. To expect that there is literally a 100% perfect wheel, as it comes from the factory, for every rider, is rather naive.

I’ve had to modify every single car I’ve bought, to some extent. And even used cars tend to cost quite a bit more than a new EUC. And cars have been made for a 100 years. And the variety of models from every single car manufacturer is huuuuge compared to all available EUCs.

The #1 cost in an EUC is the battery. Then the motor that requires intricate coiling mechanisms, which I understand must be made mostly by hand. So even the crappiest 1600Wh wheel would cost well over $1000 with barely breaking even. Add design, electronics, proper manufacturing, tire, build, distribution, etc, and $2000 is no longer expensive for what we get.

1 hour ago, Julius Plaras said:

It's a pain in the ass to change tires on these things from what it seems. 

It takes longer than changing a tire on a bicycle, but that doesn’t make it a pita in my books. Unless you absolutely hate operating a screwdriver.

[ArqFG]

A little question guys, yesterday I pick up my 16x, (tired so no time to ride it), so I'm playing around getting to know the wheel/app,  (unlucky, upgrade it(to 1.06 any news on that?), etc), so it came the time to sleep so decided to charge it fot the next day(it came with 3x% battery), so i plugged into the wall and after a while (20min +/-) I decided to use the secund charger that came with it..   After a few hours wake up and go check if it's charged and on one charge I see a green light(I did check the V with wheellog) ... I let the other for about 40min and then got green.. ((did a V check again and was 100% 84v), so is it normal when you use to charger??? 

What about this new fw v... 

Let us know fellows👉

[Unventor]

6 hours ago, Julius Plaras said:

I shouldn't have to change tires on a brand new $2000 gadget xD. It's a pain in the ass to change tires on these things from what it seems. 

Then you shouldn't but first patch of any wheel as how the EUC business is right now and how it has been since I joined about 1.5 years ago. 

[Unventor]

4 hours ago, ArqFG said:

A little question guys, yesterday I pick up my 16x, (tired so no time to ride it), so I'm playing around getting to know the wheel/app,  (unlucky, upgrade it(to 1.06 any news on that?), etc), so it came the time to sleep so decided to charge it fot the next day(it came with 3x% battery), so i plugged into the wall and after a while (20min +/-) I decided to use the secund charger that came with it..   After a few hours wake up and go check if it's charged and on one charge I see a green light(I did check the V with wheellog) ... I let the other for about 40min and then got green.. ((did a V check again and was 100% 84v), so is it normal when you use to charger??? 

What about this new fw v... 

Let us know fellows👉

Yes I would expect something like that (short answer)

It is a long answer to this so instead I think you might want to read other threads about charging, top charging and balancing of batteries/cells. also if this is your first charge to the wheel, it is like to take a few "training cycles" of charging before battery settles in. It is how li-ion works. 

[Julius Plaras]

4 hours ago, Unventor said:

Then you shouldn't but first patch of any wheel as how the EUC business is right now and how it has been since I joined about 1.5 years ago. 

Yea well I've started with the first ever solowheel to airwheel x3 to ninebot e+ to 16s and non of them I've had any issues o.o. Call me lucky or not but a consumer shouldn't have to worry about buying first batch of new product and if they do then why buy from that company in the first place? Goes to show they are putting profits before quality. Perhaps this may be the last time I buy a Kingsong.

[MaxLinux]

42 minutes ago, Julius Plaras said:

Perhaps this may be the last time I buy a Kingsong.

I was disappointed in King Song with the 16X (to be clear, I did not buy one). Definitely it should have been tested more thoroughly before releasing to customers. But if this is "the last time I buy a Kingsong" there aren't many other options. To stay in the same class, Gotway is the only alternative, in my opinion, and Gotway's history is littered with probably twice as many rough model launches as KS! 

I currently ride the KS18XL (my first KS wheel) and love it!

As @Julius Plaras mentioned, "I've started with the first ever solowheel to airwheel x3 to ninebot e+ to 16s and non of them I've had any issues" That is my experience also with several IPS, 2 Gotway, and now 1 KS EUC. But I've also never been an early adopter of a newly-released EUC.

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Julius Plaras said:

Yea well I've started with the first ever solowheel to airwheel x3 to ninebot e+ to 16s and non of them I've had any issues o.o. Call me lucky or not but a consumer shouldn't have to worry about buying first batch of new product and if they do then why buy from that company in the first place? Goes to show they are putting profits before quality. Perhaps this may be the last time I buy a Kingsong.

I view very different... Especially with KS. They test and do as much as possible with limited resources the EUC business bring. These are not mass sold as bicycles or cars. 

But KS has a design where they can improve things through firmware. Of course not all can be fixed by fw alone. 

Should you never buy a KS again the only real option as it seems right now is GW, and they don't do fw updates as it stands. 

And you bought a wheel that behaves different that your others wheels, in my book that is a good thing. Did you want stability and old school behavior then you should have chosen KS18XL instead. 

2-3 months more I expect all FW issues to be ironed out. I also expect to be adjusted to how KS16X behaves. I am due to get my unit in about 36 hours or so. 

[Patton250]

2 hours ago, MaxLinux said:

I was disappointed in King Song with the 16X (to be clear, I did not buy one). Definitely it should have been tested more thoroughly before releasing to customers. But if this is "the last time I buy a Kingsong" there aren't many other options. To stay in the same class, Gotway is the only alternative, in my opinion, and Gotway's history is littered with probably twice as many rough model launches as KS! 

I currently ride the KS18XL (my first KS wheel) and love it!

As @Julius Plaras mentioned, "I've started with the first ever solowheel to airwheel x3 to ninebot e+ to 16s and non of them I've had any issues" That is my experience also with several IPS, 2 Gotway, and now 1 KS EUC. But I've also never been an early adopter of a newly-released EUC.

I genuinely don't understand.  All because they didn’t, in your opinion, test more?  So far what I have seen of the so-called problems have not been bad at all. I have an experienced zero with mine.  In fact the only complaint I really seen are the tires and that’s due to people not liking them compared to how other wheels ride.  I hate the tires on my Mercedes Benz right now. Very loud.  I’m getting new ones next month. I still love my Mercedes. :-) 

[RoadRunner]

I’m not disappointed at all of the 16X, i have done 1120km by now and didn’t have any major problems except the tire 

I thought i will have more problems with a first batch.

[Julius Plaras]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

I view very different... Especially with KS. They test and do as much as possible with limited resources the EUC business bring. These are not mass sold as bicycles or cars. 

But KS has a design where they can improve things through firmware. Of course not all can be fixed by fw alone. 

Should you never buy a KS again the only real option as it seems right now is GW, and they don't do fw updates as it stands. 

And you bought a wheel that behaves different that your others wheels, in my book that is a good thing. Did you want stability and old school behavior then you should have chosen KS18XL instead. 

2-3 months more I expect all FW issues to be ironed out. I also expect to be adjusted to how KS16X behaves. I am due to get my unit in about 36 hours or so. 

It's not just the tire I'm upset about. It's the fact that we've come to a point where we are depending on firmware to have a safe ride. This isn't a video game; I use these to commute everyday. It worries me that because they've rolled out fix after fix, there might be an issue with current software that they haven't fully tested yet or worst regressions of previous issues. I was shocked that before I physically got my wheel I was instructed to upgrade it immediately upon arrival due to random issues. Is the KS16X the new Max7 jets 😆

[Unventor]

3 minutes ago, Julius Plaras said:

It's not just the tire I'm upset about. It's the fact that we've come to a point where we are depending on firmware to have a safe ride. This isn't a video game; I use these to commute everyday. It worries me that because they've rolled out fix after fix, there might be an issue with current software that they haven't fully tested yet or worst regressions of previous issues. I was shocked that before I physically got my wheel I was instructed to upgrade it immediately upon arrival due to random issues. Is the KS16X the new Max7 jets 😆

Like I wrote to you before. What you are upset about is what comes with first batch, like it or not. That is how it is. 

All brands have had their issues. The only wheel that didn't have any is the MSX but it had issues too or changes do compared to first batch. The KS18L didn't have any issues during riding, it had many issues other than riding expireance. So it got new lamps, new trolley stems, new inner structure, new lift switch system, optional pedals.... New fw 1year later that made a great wheel better. Any version of KS18L or XL I would still recommend if asked, both great wheels. But they too took time to get where they are now. So will it be with KS16X.