16x 16x Issues Thread

[Julius Plaras]

That's my point man! Do we as consumer's just say keep giving them a pass? How do you feel walking to Mercedes, buying a car then the salesman says to make sure to upgrade first before driving. I'd be a bit confused and worried wouldn't you? Hence that is why I am stating this may be the last time I'm getting a King Song unless they get their act together and release polished products in the future. The only thing I am ever expecting to have a fix post purchase would minor things like app cannot change lights... Definitely not core things like firmware!

[Unventor]

24 minutes ago, Julius Plaras said:

That's my point man! Do we as consumer's just say keep giving them a pass? How do you feel walking to Mercedes, buying a car then the salesman says to make sure to upgrade first before driving. I'd be a bit confused and worried wouldn't you? Hence that is why I am stating this may be the last time I'm getting a King Song unless they get their act together and release polished products in the future. The only thing I am ever expecting to have a fix post purchase would minor things like app cannot change lights... Definitely not core things like firmware!

An EUC is not in same price range as a Mercedes and the company behind building is not anywhere near it size in both manpower, financially or how long they have developed their product. The car has have 100+ years to get where it is today. EUCs started within the last decade. 

Any modern car have infotainment system and GPS maps options, that can be upgraded. 

Since EUC have long time to ship and a shorter development loop you might have to update it if it is first batch. 

Your expansion and how the business work do not match.

So did you do any research into what you were buying, the history (despite buy other wheels) and what exactly did your dealer promise you? 

[Julius Plaras]

Replace Mercedes with car dealership in that exmple - does that change anything to you? I'm simply comparing the fact that they both are machines that transports you from point A to point B. These wheels go ~ 30mph now which is more than enough to kill you. The fact they were shipped with faulty firmware out of the factory is boggling to me.

I don't care about their development cycle or ship time. From a consumer standpoint I expect everything I buy to be close to perfect as possible (especially where your life is mounted on it) else, very simply, I won't buy from you ever again. 

And yes I did do my research on KS16X. My purchase was based in Kujis videos during testing amongst other things. I also owned a 16s which I frigging love because of its commute prowess in terms of power, size and amazing trolley. It also did not involve dealing with faulty firmware out of the box. 

[stephen]

1 hour ago, Julius Plaras said:

That's my point man! Do we as consumer's just say keep giving them a pass? How do you feel walking to Mercedes, buying a car then the salesman says to make sure to upgrade first before driving. I'd be a bit confused and worried wouldn't you? Hence that is why I am stating this may be the last time I'm getting a King Song unless they get their act together and release polished products in the future. The only thing I am ever expecting to have a fix post purchase would minor things like app cannot change lights... Definitely not core things like firmware!

There's alot of people with zero issues and if kingsong did test some of the wheels and there was zero issues they probably thought everything was ok ,i don't think kingsong can test every wheel otherwise we wouldn't have a new wheel , there's many car manufacturers that release with problems and phones, iPads and other electronics have problems when released,  they do updates to get rid of the bugs , allot of my electronics be it a tv or phone/ipad always have updates several times , they only know they have bugs because we find them even if the products they tested was spot on

Edited August 31, 2019 by stephen

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Julius Plaras said:

Replace Mercedes with car dealership in that exmple - does that change anything to you? I'm simply comparing the fact that they both are machines that transports you from point A to point B. These wheels go ~ 30mph now which is more than enough to kill you. The fact they were shipped with faulty firmware out of the factory is boggling to me.

I don't care about their development cycle or ship time. From a consumer standpoint I expect everything I buy to be close to perfect as possible (especially where your life is mounted on it) else, very simply, I won't buy from you ever again. 

And yes I did do my research on KS16X. My purchase was based in Kujis videos during testing amongst other things. I also owned a 16s which I frigging love because of its commute prowess in terms of power, size and amazing trolley. It also did not involve dealing with faulty firmware out of the box. 

Sell it then. After buy a Nikola. There. Done. You’re welcome. :-)

[mrelwood]

 

4 hours ago, Unventor said:

The only wheel that didn't have any is the MSX

Sorry, no. The first batch had a constant tilt-back while riding, maxing out at 7-8 degrees. They fixed it immediately though, but I don’t know how many control boards they had to ship as a bug fix that time.

1 hour ago, Julius Plaras said:

I don't care about their development cycle or ship time. From a consumer standpoint I expect everything I buy to be close to perfect as possible (especially where your life is mounted on it) else, very simply, I won't buy from you ever again.

By ”from” I assume you don’t actually mean the distributor but the manufacturer. If you are really going to live up to that promise, you can’t buy a single EUC anymore. From any manufacturer.

Unless ”as possible” includes the current state of the EUC business, but it doesn’t seem to align with your reaction. 

1 hour ago, Julius Plaras said:

My purchase was based in Kujis videos during testing amongst other things.

If receiving an issue free product was important to me, I surely wouldn’t order a 1st batch product based on a buggy pre-production sample. And I would care about the developement cycle.

I’m sorry to hear that your expectations were off, but hopefully you can learn to appreciate your soon to be 100% functional wheel nonetheless.

[JesterOTL]

Hi all,

I got my 16X on Tuesday, August 27th...

I updated to 1.05 right away as well as applied the Bluetooth fix.

The wheel itself has been flawless. No wobbles, oscillation, etc. 

Here are a couple of observations:

-The app is tragic Just piling on with this one. I can’t wait for it to be updated as its a big improvement over the old one

-There is definitely a gyro effect compared to my old 16s, however the padding at the top of the wheel makes it quite comfortable to push it over and turn with my calf. I’m debating whether I’ll replace it with a CST as others have done

-I found the calibration tricky to figure out. I did it incorrectly the first time leaving it off level and causing a weird angle after a hill climb, but after doing it properly, it did excellent on a 30 mile ride

-If someone is reading this, I’m BEGGING YOU, please allow us to deactivate the “PLEASE DECELLERATE” voice prompt and change it to a beep or something else. It’s super annoying!

-The speaker is disappointing and I’m not sure what the point of it is. When you are riding, you can barely hear it and it lacks bass. It’s like its not designed to be enjoyed while you’re riding so I don’t use it.

I am having a blast on this thing. Super fast, great long distance rider, I really like the larger pedals over my 16S. The look and build quality are amazing and I have to mention the headlight—it’s throws so much light I had several cars brighting me. I love how much of the path I can see with it. 

Thanks to all who are contributing to this thread!

[Unventor]

47 minutes ago, JesterOTL said:

If someone is reading this, I’m BEGGING YOU, please allow us to deactivate the “PLEASE DECELLERATE” voice prompt and change it to a beep or something else. It’s super annoying!

You can do that in the app, it either beeps or voice commands. Since I don't have my wheel available right now I can't recall the exact screen and wording in the app. 

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, JesterOTL said:

Hi all,

I got my 16X on Tuesday, August 27th...

I updated to 1.05 right away as well as applied the Bluetooth fix.

The wheel itself has been flawless. No wobbles, oscillation, etc. 

Here are a couple of observations:

-The app is tragic Just piling on with this one. I can’t wait for it to be updated as its a big improvement over the old one

-There is definitely a gyro effect compared to my old 16s, however the padding at the top of the wheel makes it quite comfortable to push it over and turn with my calf. I’m debating whether I’ll replace it with a CST as others have done

-I found the calibration tricky to figure out. I did it incorrectly the first time leaving it off level and causing a weird angle after a hill climb, but after doing it properly, it did excellent on a 30 mile ride

-If someone is reading this, I’m BEGGING YOU, please allow us to deactivate the “PLEASE DECELLERATE” voice prompt and change it to a beep or something else. It’s super annoying!

-The speaker is disappointing and I’m not sure what the point of it is. When you are riding, you can barely hear it and it lacks bass. It’s like its not designed to be enjoyed while you’re riding so I don’t use it.

I am having a blast on this thing. Super fast, great long distance rider, I really like the larger pedals over my 16S. The look and build quality are amazing and I have to mention the headlight—it’s throws so much light I had several cars brighting me. I love how much of the path I can see with it. 

Thanks to all who are contributing to this thread!

What tire did yours come with?

[eucinsea]

On 9/1/2019 at 7:19 AM, eddiemoy said:

What tire did yours come with?

I would say the same tire as the other first batches as I got mine about the same time which was a second shipment from China. 

When I put my $$ down I was under the impression that I would be getting a 2nd batch but that wasn't the case. 

If all that is different is the tire then ill try to meet up with @chrisjunlee when he gets his cyt on and see what I think of it vs 1st batch stock tire. 

I’ve had a blast on this thing regardless of the tire on it. Im riding at 30psi with 190ish with full backpack on and have been all over Seattle without issue on hills compared to my V8 that I had to carry my charger with me on.  

[chrisjunlee]

5 minutes ago, prasket said:

If all that is different is the tire then ill try to meet up with @chrisjunlee when he gets his cyt on and see what I think of it vs 1st batch stock tire. 

I gave up my CYT tire

[Patton250]

1 minute ago, chrisjunlee said:

I gave up my CYT tire

 Why? According to several here it’s a difference between the 16X sucking more than taxes and death and it being the most wonderful wheel on the planet. LOL 

[chrisjunlee]

Just now, Patton250 said:

 Why? According to several here it’s a difference between the 16X sucking more than taxes and death and it being the most wonderful wheel on the planet. LOL 

I'm sure it's next level good, but by the time it arrives, I won't be riding much, nor would I have the space or time to swap it out.

And utility wise, better for that to go to some 50 miler who's angsting life and death over it. I've had over 700 miles to appreciate the stock tire, so it's an incremental upgrade for me at this point.

[ir_fuel]

On 9/1/2019 at 3:35 PM, Unventor said:

I can't recall the exact screen and wording in the app. 

Even with the app you can't.

That switch has Chinese text

On 9/1/2019 at 12:11 AM, Julius Plaras said:

How do you feel walking to Mercedes, buying a car then the salesman says to make sure to upgrade first before driving. I'd be a bit confused and worried wouldn't you?

Talking about Tesla?

[FreeRide]

On 9/2/2019 at 5:46 PM, ir_fuel said:

Talking about Tesla?

[eucinsea]

On 9/2/2019 at 2:26 PM, chrisjunlee said:

I gave up my CYT tire

My neighbor just pre-ordered the 16x from ewheels. It should be batch 2 with CYT tire so we can check it out on his he said.  

[Gaz Bon]

It's a shame when topics started to monitor issues so others can see clearly issues with the wheel get opinionated 

Stick to the topic if you have an opinion add it to the very long 156 page thread linked below because that is the very reason this thread was started

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Gaz Bon

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

Tire sit not properly on the rim. 

Changed the tire from Dalishen CX321 to CST C-1488 and found out that the old tire and the new tire are not sitting properly on the rim and have a 2-3 mm radial and lateral runout exactly at the valve position. The reason for this is that the valve hole is drilled too far outside and the tyre cannot slide into the rim bed. Pressing, squeezing and pulling everything did not help, not even with lubricant.

The old tire already has also a pressure point at the valve position.

I had to mill the valve hole 3mm to the inside (hole is now oval), so that the tire had enough space to slide on the rim bed. Now the tyre sits properly without any lateral or radial runout. 

Here are some pictures of the original condition. If this looks the same, you should check the roundness. 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by buell47

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

Dust and dirt inside housing. 

Here are a few places where a lot of dust and dirt gets inside the housing.

Here are my attempts to minimize this. 

1. no dirt problem, but while you're at it, it's better to secure the magnet with tape from falling out (this has happened several times before)
2. foam rubber (top thinner / bottom thicker)
3. Protect speaker with thin cloth. Unfortunately I didn't have a special black water-repellent fabric at hand, like @Marty Backe used for the Nikola loudspeaker mod. 
4. Metal sheet below the pedal hanger (the biggest place where dirt gets in)

But I am not satisfied with the seal at all. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2019 by buell47

[heldenhaft]

Hi,

my new ks16x has some case issues. At this point, dust and rain will certainly come in (Only on one side).

Edited September 13, 2019 by heldenhaft

[Gaz Bon]

I noticed the very same when I split mine too

But tended to be at the rear

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

20 hours ago, buell47 said:

Dust and dirt inside housing. 

Here are a few places where a lot of dust and dirt gets inside the housing.

Here are my attempts to minimize this. 

1. no dirt problem, but while you're at it, it's better to secure the magnet with tape from falling out (this has happened several times before)
2. foam rubber (top thinner / bottom thicker)
3. Protect speaker with thin cloth. Unfortunately I didn't have a special black water-repellent fabric at hand, like @Marty Backe used for the Nikola loudspeaker mod. 
4. Metal sheet below the pedal hanger (the biggest place where dirt gets in)

But I am not satisfied with the seal at all. 

 

 

That was a waste of time. 

Additionally I even sealed the complete housing from front to back with tape. (gap between inner and outer housing) and today after 45 km (30 km extreme offroad / 15km pavement) I have so much sand in the inner housing that I thought the lower LEDs are defective on a length of about 15 cm. But they weren't, the sand covered them completely.

The hole under the pedal holder was probably not overlooked, but is there to let the sand out again. 

[wongster]

Updated 15/9/19:
Motor Vibration Issue appears solved
(Thanks to Denis Hagov update that by downgrading from V1.06 to V1.05 and applying the Bluetooth update, followed by Horizontal recalibration of the pedals , the wobbling issue encountered at high speed hard braking seems resolved.

I have just done the opposite. I upgraded from V1.05 to V1.06 as suggested by KS tech Michael Shen and now my motor vibration and noise issue appears solved.
I have not done much testing as yet and will update here when I have more results.

It is a shame that V1.06 will result in a max speed cap of 25km/hr when battery is still at 63% (74V).
Which is why I intend to downgrade back to V1.05 and see whether the motor vibration issue resurfaces.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/kingsong/permalink/2366851416724218/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/kingsong/permalink/2383169591759067/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/kingsong/permalink/2383344358408257/

Refer to above Facebook links for video posted by Denis Hagov & Akex Murillo on 13th Sep 2019.

For those who lacks the time or patience to watch the entire 14 mins (1st FB link)

It can be summarized as 2 major issues as follows:

Firstly, from about the 700km mileage, Denis 16X exhibits a loud motor vibration (refer to 1:16 mark in FB video, same issue with my 16X (video attached)

Secondly, (refer to  FB  video at 5:57 mark) Denis described in detail that at 50km/hr, upon moderately hard braking, his 16X went into extreme wobbling for a few sec followed by a crash. (This issue was first reported by Kuji and is supposedly fixed in firmware V1.05)

Denis seems to be saying that he's already on the latest V1.06 when the wobbling occurred.

** King Song will not openly admit that the firmware can be downgraded, but Denis commented that he had also tried downgrading from the latest V1.06 firmware to V1.05 & V1.01 but none seemed to fix the motor vibration issue**

I had a response from King Sing tech guy Michael Shen assuring me that upgrading to V1.06 will resolve the issue, but after reading Denis post & the latest video uploaded on King Sing FB by Akex Murillo, I am skeptical at best.

Any other 16X riders on V1.06 firmware experienced intense wobbling upon hard braking at speeds above 45km/hr?

Am I correct to say that the 3rd Alarm can only be set at a max value of 49km/hr, with the tilt-back value set correspondingly at 50km/hr?

Until King Song responds with a permanent solution, it would be prudent to keep below 45km/hr & wear your PPE gear.

Edited September 15, 2019 by wongster
Upgraded from V1.05 to V1.06 firmware

[Mike Paolini]

Wanted to register a new issue I discovered in the iOS App.  I suspect it will occur on Android also and is simply a reflection of a software issue inside the KS16x, and likely one that is causing the Peddle Tilt post Bluetooth USB fix.

Caught it using 906 with these screen shots after the KS16x tilted first forward 15 degrees, then backward 15 degrees for about 15 seconds at low speed (mph) around a curve.  I had been doing sprints to test the 906 Throttling.

The Average speed is higher than the Max Speed:

 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

9 hours ago, Gaz Bon said:

I noticed the very same when I split mine too

But tended to be at the rear

I also suspected this area, but since mine was not so dirty yet, I ignored it and concentrated on the lower area.

At the next tyre change I will concentrate on this area.