Incredibly bad look for this community.

[.....]

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

I was asked by my boss to stop at a job on my long drive home one Friday evening.  I was south of Atlanta Ga and heading back to Tennessee. (130 miles) I stopped at a hotel under construction to see if they would be ready for our construction guys Monday morning. There was a big mess in the yard and everyone had left for the day. ( truck loads of demolition debris) Our company had not been to the job yet. We were in no way responsible for the mess. The owner of the property came out and demanded that I personally cleaned the mess up. I told him that I had nothing to do with construction or the mess. He said that none of that mattered. He was a higher class and that I would follow his orders regardless. He said that he would call the cops and have me killed if I did not obey. ...............   I guess this might be true if I lived in that person’s country. I just got in my truck and drove off.

The US has a very mixed population. We are not all of the same mind. We do not come from the same up bringing. We do not all share the same moral and cultural rules. It is easy to judge the US when you live in a city of like minded people. Last year I sat in a restaurant and listened to a man at a neighboring table tell a young disheveled woman that in his country he would have killed her for talking back to him. He looked as if he was still thinking about killing her.  At least he understands that such killings are not acceptable here. The government is not protecting us from these people. 
 

What does a civilized person do when surrounded by uncivilized people? Just let them have their way? The police won’t do anything. 
The people out in the in the rural areas are very polite and civilized. You can leave your doors unlocked with valuables just sitting around.   Any guesses as to why? 

 

I'm pretty sure its not legal to tell someone you will have them killed. Freedom of speech is great, but does it cover threats of violence? See, and we are worried about a little euc riding in NYC, meanwhile.... people who have no business being in USA are threatening to have other people killed by law enforcement. I say they 'have no business being here' as it only makes sense you should have a minor grasp of societ ettiquette. I am fairly certain I would have insisted they call LEO as it seems a small learning session would be in order. Further proof that when you let humans infest a city in large numbers, you end up with BIG problems. Atlanta is definitely no exception. "have you killed"  that is some funny sh*t right there. Sucha  big boy, why didnt he just handle that himself? You were standing RIGHT THERE! I can only guess his accent was mighty thick.

61 pages to go..cmon guys, we can do it!

Edited August 6, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[RockyTop]

7 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I can only guess his accent was mighty thick.

It was, Yet I will have to say that other people with the same accent are starting to fit in very nicely in this area. At least the younger generation is. They are starting to adapt to the local culture in ways that I never would have expected. ..... all the way down to the red solo cup.  

[UniMe]

That's a funny side bar for me. Where I grew up, the most dangerous people, hands down, were the local organized criminals, violent rednecks and their spawn.

[Paulo Mesquita]

5 hours ago, RockyTop said:

I was asked by my boss to stop at a job on my long drive home one Friday evening.  I was south of Atlanta Ga and heading back to Tennessee. (130 miles) I stopped at a hotel under construction to see if they would be ready for our construction guys Monday morning. There was a big mess in the yard and everyone had left for the day. ( truck loads of demolition debris) Our company had not been to the job yet. We were in no way responsible for the mess. The owner of the property came out and demanded that I personally cleaned the mess up. I told him that I had nothing to do with construction or the mess. He said that none of that mattered. He was a higher class and that I would follow his orders regardless. He said that he would call the cops and have me killed if I did not obey. ...............   I guess this might be true if I lived in that person’s country. I just got in my truck and drove off.

The US has a very mixed population. We are not all of the same mind. We do not come from the same up bringing. We do not all share the same moral and cultural rules. It is easy to judge the US when you live in a city of like minded people. Last year I sat in a restaurant and listened to a man at a neighboring table tell a young disheveled woman that in his country he would have killed her for talking back to him. He looked as if he was still thinking about killing her.  At least he understands that such killings are not acceptable here. The government is not protecting us from these people. 
 

What does a civilized person do when surrounded by uncivilized people? Just let them have their way? The police won’t do anything. 
The people out in the in the rural areas are very polite and civilized. You can leave your doors unlocked with valuables just sitting around.   Any guesses as to why? 

 

Y'all should come and live in Portugal. You'd be surprised on how laid back we are. 

... eat, drink, sleep beach, eat, drink, sleep beach, eat, drink, sleep beach, eat, drink, sleep beach,.... 

[Paulo Mesquita]

4 hours ago, Tawpie said:

since this thread has slipped a little bit from topic already, I'll add a banana because... well, I still find this amusing. And it speaks to personal conduct (on topic), collective norms (on topic), and firearms (¯\_(ツ)_/¯).

I moved to Montana in the late 70s—a land where men are men and sheep run scared. Where you always stop to help when there's a car on the side of the road because there might not be another car by for a couple of days. Where all pickup trucks had gun racks in the back window (and I mean every single one). And most of those gun racks had guns in them. Always. Hunting season or not. Oh... most vehicles had the keys in the ignition because the key is for starting the car, why would it be anywhere else?

I asked a guy if he was worried if somebody would steal his rifle... he looked at me like I was a complete dumbass and said "why would anybody steal my gun"? That thought never entered his mind, it was no more a possibility than a child accidentally shooting their playmate.

40 years later, you can go to jail for failing to properly secure your firearm (in some jurisdictions, I don't know about Montana).

I guess if there's any value in sharing this it is that people, communities, times and mores change. What was once perfectly fine may be viewed as unconscionable in the future. What was once banned, may be accepted. Makes life interesting and discussions lively don't 'ya think?

 

... It's like when in one of my trips to the US. I was standing in a line at Starbucks, and an angry client to the other: "  your in my space"... 

I found that hilarious 😂😂😂😂...Did the guy buy, rent or lease the space immediately behind him? 😁... Did h feel he owned the air around him? 😁... It really gave me a very clear picture of his some American citizens, go overboard in being overprotective of their individuality and how they are so keen in nervously expressing it. 

I live in a culture of huggers, kisses and patters on the back and it felt so strange to witness this "space/air ownership" social phenomenon. 

[Paulo Mesquita]

4 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

61 pages to go..cmon guys, we can do it!

We're getting there! @ShanesPlanet, please be patient 😁😁😁😁😁😁

[mike_bike_kite]

I honestly find it weird that people on here hate the idea of discussing bad behaviour on EUC's even though the end result impacts us all. I really find it weird that people derail the thread with a discussion on gun control. There's nothing wrong with people digressing on threads but here it seems to be very deliberate attempt to derail the main discussion. Could a moderator simply remove those posts that have nothing to do with the topic?

[Menace]

On 7/27/2021 at 9:09 AM, shellac said:

I am in general OK with a society having guns, if it’s what the population really wants, but I’m not OK with Americans having guns in their current social situation. The Swiss have guns and are fine. I think if Sweden had guns they’d be OK too. The difference is those countries don’t have the severe societal problems the US does. Guns are a privilege and I think we need to get our house in order first.

100% agree. Sweden does, but they have very strict regulations. You have to have a REASON (ie. hunting) for buying it and it has to be kept locked up. Yes, guns are a PRIVILEGE and not a right. If Americans can't handle them, as they have proven, that privilege should be revoked.

[Menace]

11 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

here it seems to be very deliberate attempt to derail the main discussion

To be fair, gun control is sort of related. I actually enjoy this thread because there are interesting random things that come up. Besides, we've got to get to 100 pages 

[Tawpie]

20 minutes ago, Menace said:

Besides, we've got to get to 100 pages

we could talk about how failure to maintain your battery the way I think you should maintain your battery is directly contributing to EUC riders getting a reputation as an unrepentant mob of science-denyers that is raping the planet to get their precious lithium batteries just so they can act like a bunch of hooligans.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Tawpie

[CarlW]

1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I honestly find it weird that people on here hate the idea of discussing bad behaviour on EUC's even though the end result impacts us all. I really find it weird that people derail the thread with a discussion on gun control. There's nothing wrong with people digressing on threads but here it seems to be very deliberate attempt to derail the main discussion. Could a moderator simply remove those posts that have nothing to do with the topic?

I am fairly new to this forum but find it difficult to understand why folks keep suggesting discussions be ended, removed, moved, etc.  No one is under any obligation to participate if they don't care for the flavor of the discussion.  People are also very capable to start their own new discussion if topics in other conversations have devolved.  To suggest people hate to discuss the poor behavior that started this conversation seems ridiculous if you were around for the first dozen pages or so.  It was very thoroughly discussed.  The moderation on this forum seems well balanced to me.  They shut down folks refusing to remain respectful, and otherwise they let people talk.         

[Paul A]

https://apnews.com/article/arts-and-entertainment-arrests-hit-and-run-2aa1a2b0ea69365ad493c8902100802f

NEW YORK (AP) — The rider of an unlicensed electric scooter involved in the hit-and-run death of “Gone Girl” actor Lisa Banes was well aware that he hit her, fleeing to a repair shop afterward seeking to fix a sideview mirror, authorities said Friday.

Brian Boyd was arrested Thursday and charged with leaving the scene of an accident resulting in death and failure to yield to a pedestrian.

Boyd, 26, was released under strict supervision following a court appearance on Friday. There was no immediate response to a message left with his attorney.

Police say they built the case on security videotape showing Banes walking in a crosswalk on the Upper West Side of Manhattan in early June when she was struck by the scooter after it ran a red light — a growing hazard in the city.

A police officer who reviewed a video from the scene said in court papers that on it both “the pedestrian and the operator of the electric scooter fall to the ground.” After that, “I further observed the operator stand up, pick up his electric scooter, walk over to the individual lying in the street, and then walk back to his electric scooter and drive away,” the papers say.

Another video showed the “operator of the electric scooter ride from the crash location to Bolt Bike Shop … where the operator is observed interacting with employees of the bike shop and waiting for repairs to the electric scooter,” the complaint says.

The complaint claims that Boyd admitted to police that he was the person in a black hooded sweatshirt seen in the bike shop video.

Banes was hospitalized and died on July 14 at age 65. 

[Chucka Wheelie]

7 minutes ago, Paul A said:

https://apnews.com/article/arts-and-entertainment-arrests-hit-and-run-2aa1a2b0ea69365ad493c8902100802f

NEW YORK (AP) — The rider of an unlicensed electric scooter involved in the hit-and-run death of “Gone Girl” actor Lisa Banes was well aware that he hit her, fleeing to a repair shop afterward seeking to fix a sideview mirror, authorities said Friday.

Brian Boyd was arrested Thursday and charged with leaving the scene of an accident resulting in death and failure to yield to a pedestrian.

Boyd, 26, was released under strict supervision following a court appearance on Friday. There was no immediate response to a message left with his attorney.

Police say they built the case on security videotape showing Banes walking in a crosswalk on the Upper West Side of Manhattan in early June when she was struck by the scooter after it ran a red light — a growing hazard in the city.

A police officer who reviewed a video from the scene said in court papers that on it both “the pedestrian and the operator of the electric scooter fall to the ground.” After that, “I further observed the operator stand up, pick up his electric scooter, walk over to the individual lying in the street, and then walk back to his electric scooter and drive away,” the papers say.

Another video showed the “operator of the electric scooter ride from the crash location to Bolt Bike Shop … where the operator is observed interacting with employees of the bike shop and waiting for repairs to the electric scooter,” the complaint says.

The complaint claims that Boyd admitted to police that he was the person in a black hooded sweatshirt seen in the bike shop video.

Banes was hospitalized and died on July 14 at age 65. 

Good.  Lock the bastard up.  Brian Boyd deserves everything coming to him.  Walking/riding away from an accident is atrocious... and to walk over to his victim first before that is absolutely UNFORGIVABLE. 

[Planemo]

Given that the article mention repair of a 'side view mirror', I presume the vehicle was one of those electric moped things? A bit like a regular 50cc scooter but an electric one? IE nothing like an escooter?

[Chucka Wheelie]

45 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Given that the article mention repair of a 'side view mirror', I presume the vehicle was one of those electric moped things? A bit like a regular 50cc scooter but an electric one? IE nothing like an escooter?

Not necessarily,  There's many many eScooter riders that attach side rear view mirrors on their rides.  Man I've seen some people add so many attachments on their handle bars I'm surprised their eScooters don't tip over the front wheel! lol   That said, you are probably right about it being an eMoped.  

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

... It's like when in one of my trips to the US. I was standing in a line at Starbucks, and an angry client to the other: "  your in my space"...

Nah, it must’ve just been so long ago that he was somewhat of a MySpace celebrity, and this guy simply recognized him and wanted to let him know that he is liked! 

 

4 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I honestly find it weird that people on here hate the idea of discussing bad behaviour on EUC's even though the end result impacts us all. I really find it weird that people derail the thread with a discussion on gun control. There's nothing wrong with people digressing on threads but here it seems to be very deliberate attempt to derail the main discussion. Could a moderator simply remove those posts that have nothing to do with the topic?

Doesn’t seem very productive for us to start creating new threads for each derailing topic and move the posts there. And simply removing posts that are not blatantly against forum rules or directly offending or insulting, would be against the nature of this forum.

 

This thread was ruined a few dozen pages ago. If anyone wishes to discuss the original topic (or any smaller section of it) for example from a different point of view, please start a new thread!

[Rywokast]

hmmm what do we have here https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/ebikes-more-english.pdf apparently eucs are recognised specifically, and illegal in NYC now? scooters limited to 15 mph lmao

[.....]

1 hour ago, Rywokast said:

hmmm what do we have here https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/ebikes-more-english.pdf apparently eucs are recognised specifically, and illegal in NYC now? scooters limited to 15 mph lmao

And now there's no need to even wonder. Hate to see this, but it seems SOMETHING has persuaded NYC to specifically include EUCs and forbid them. I wonder if they noticed that some of these eucs are faster than 40mph scooters that require licensing? I doubt this will have much effect aside from civil penalties for the rare accident that causes property or bodily harm of another. Sometimes making things outright illegal, pushes it underground JUST enough that riders who once tried to ride 'legal', quite caring at all. I'll wait to see if ANY enforcement comes of this.

Didnt everyone see this coming? Its inevitable, the specs on an euc are simply TOO big to be allowed operation alongside cars and pedestrians, w/o some form of identification. From a DOT standpoint, I'd say the euc is closer to motorcycles than mopeds, and is missing a lot of safety and registration features of both. I guess its official, you gotta be a criminal and a badass to ride an euc on public roads/sidewalks in NYC.

If youre in NYC, be smart, wear a plain colored full face helmet and ride a gotway. Thats about as non-descript as you can be...

Edited August 7, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Paul A]

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2017/s332

senate Bill S332

2017-2018 Legislative Session

S332 (ACTIVE) - Summary

Provides that hoverboards and electric unicycles shall not be deemed to be "motor vehicles" under the vehicle and traffic law; regulates the operation of hoverboards; directs the consumer protection division to monitor and investigate reports of electric unicycles and hoverboards that explode.

 

This Bill passed the Assembly and the Senate, but was not delivered to the Governor, and was not Signed or Vetoed by the Governor.

Think this is the piece of legislation that House of Job Chris was referring to in the forum thread, 'Are EUCs now illegal in NYC'

"........old bill proposals from back in the hoverboard debacle times ('16-'17) that never got moved past review status."

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Paul A
typo

[mike_bike_kite]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

And now there's no need to even wonder. Hate to see this, but it seems SOMETHING has persuaded NYC to specifically include EUCs and forbid them. I wonder if they noticed that some of these eucs are faster than 40mph scooters that require licensing?

Normally it's the UK that's behind the USA but in this case we seem to be about 2 years ahead. Originally no-one cared when you were rode a eskooter or an EUC on the road. They were just an alternative fun mode of transport. Then people started youtubing ever more questionable videos featuring dangerous riding styles to make it look cool and edgy and manufacturers followed by producing ever more powerful rides. Then impressionable youngsters watching the videos start copying that style to make themselves look cool and edgy. Then people start getting hurt. Then there's a backlash from the public. Next they're officially declared illegal but no one really enforces the law. Then you find yourself being fined, having your wheel confiscated and losing your driving license. Those in America and Europe are somewhere in the middle of that process, here in the UK we're sadly at the end.

It's a shame that there isn't a movement to try and legalise all PEV's with appropriate insurance and driver's license before everyone gets banned. It would also help if we all tried to show people that these things are a valid form of transport, sure they take a little time to learn but they're green, economical and fun plus you don't have to worry about locking them up outside.

[Treatz]

When this thread started, the concern from many in this community was that unsafe riding behaviors would lead to negative consequences—such as potential legal restrictions. It could not have been made more clear that this thread was about unsafe riding behaviors and the negative consequences that could likely result.

But then a few persistent individuals insisted that such concerns were unfounded, dismissed any such concerns as silly and ironically complained that they were being victimized (by those pleading for civility). Repeatedly, they were asked to stay on topic and repeatedly they denied, distracted and derailed. When challenged, some were antagonistic and rude.

Now that we’re 39 pages along, we’re finding out that the concerns were not unfounded at all. 

Is that inaccurate?

 

[Paulo Mesquita]

1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Normally it's the UK that's behind the USA but in this case we seem to be about 2 years ahead. Originally no-one cared when you were rode a eskooter or an EUC on the road. They were just an alternative fun mode of transport. Then people started youtubing ever more questionable videos featuring dangerous riding styles to make it look cool and edgy and manufacturers followed by producing ever more powerful rides. Then impressionable youngsters watching the videos start copying that style to make themselves look cool and edgy. Then people start getting hurt. Then there's a backlash from the public. Next they're officially declared illegal but no one really enforces the law. Then you find yourself being fined, having your wheel confiscated and losing your driving license. Those in America and Europe are somewhere in the middle of that process, here in the UK we're sadly at the end.

It's a shame that there isn't a movement to try and legalise all PEV's with appropriate insurance and driver's license before everyone gets banned. It would also help if we all tried to show people that these things are a valid form of transport, sure they take a little time to learn but they're green, economical and fun plus you don't have to worry about locking them up outside.

I've always been in favor of licencing and insuring EUCs... 

[.....]

28 minutes ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

I've always been in favor of licencing and insuring EUCs... 

I've always been in favor of them being niche and free to enjoy as an adult should see fit . Of course we KNOW which one it will end up being. I know its inevitable, but one would hope that the less flagrant people are about putting others in danger atop an euc and the less we advertise and glorify such behavior, the longer we can play in the shadows. It seems that time is coming to an abrupt end. I'm sure a few of the big influencers that have done 'so much for the euc community' have a little to do with how this is going to end up. Big, intimidating group rides with disregard for traffic law, is NOT going to help much.

Hopefully ShanesPlanet remains uneffected until I at least break into little bits and peices, or cant afford a wheel when my last one dies...

Edited August 7, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[The Brahan Seer]

2 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

It's a shame that there isn't a movement to try and legalise all PEV's 

In the UK  : https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/e-scooter--crack-down/ ; slightly off topic my bad.

[Forwardnbak]

I remember just being able to get on anything we made out of old bits of wood and skateboard wheels and jamming down hills as kids. No one really cared, common sense, luck, bruises, learning, modifications-brakes, we got better. sometimes accidents happened. 
sometimes accidents still happen.

with or without EUC, accidents will still happen.

a little more room for individual ownership of responsibility, ability and consequence of action is needed. Not more laws, more fines, more ways to monetise reasons to target individuals. 
more attention to dedicated electric pathways would go along way to helping.

Common sense is needed so often.