Incredibly bad look for this community.

[Paul A]

The youtube video does state that it 'Includes paid promotion'.

Young males, no empathy. "Me Only" culture?

 

Such divergent views of community members. 

Could it be cultural differences? 

Like attitudes to gun control. 

General public having legal, unlimited access to military assault weapons.

Abhorrent to some, total sense to others.

 

This video is even more disturbing.

Titled: Riding down Amsterdam Ave Full Send with Kamikaze Joe. 

Aug 18, 2020   1,038 views  51 likes  8 dislikes

All of the total 12 viewer comments think it is great.

 

Same again. 

Ignoring red lights at intersections, blasting through crossings with pedestrians on them, wrong side of the road, squeezing/weaving between cars, at very high speeds, etc.

 

Young men without fear or care for others. 

Great as recruits for USMC or Navy Top Gun Fighter pilots, not so for EUC on public roads.

 

 

 

 

[winterwheel]

I hadn't seen that one, thanks for the link. It's nice to see the fear of outraged safety mavens is starting to fade. 

[Paulo Mesquita]

23 minutes ago, conecones said:

Your worry is more a problem with the local government, and less about how a group of EUC riders behave in another country... I understand the politics are a little different over in Europe but if for example Canada put an enforced ban on PEV's and the politicians try to use the example of a group of idiot riders in another country as justification, or one local idiot rider causing damage/death, we will be directing our anger at the government instead and writing letters and protesting in the streets for this kind of lazy policy making. There's going to be idiots in any activity and governments need to be held accountable to make the proper policies that actually benefit society.

Exactly 👍👍👍

[Heyzeus]

39 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Young males, no empathy. "Me Only" culture?

 

Such divergent views of community members. 

Could it be cultural differences? 

Like attitudes to gun control. 

General public having legal, unlimited access to military assault weapons.

Not to get political but I really don't see the connection between riding like a dick and gun control.  I say this as a very socially liberal person and generally liberal person otherwise that supports the 2nd amendment here in the states because I think it's a good check/balance against excess government overreach and stopping stuff from getting to the point like it got in Hong Kong and elsewhere in the world.

I Think there's better analogies that could be made.

Like the difference between an individualistic culture vs a more collectivist/conformist culture.

In a more conformist culture you will have less people acting out and being a fool because of the collectivist or conformist nature, vs a individualistic culture you will have those individuals that recognize it as dick behavior and don't do it and others who either don't see it as dick behavior or don't care because of the individualistic nature of the culture and the lack of pressure to fit a mold and conform with the norm and thus "ride how they want"

Basically, in the US which is more individualistic I would expect to see more riders riding with lack of regard and being a fool compared to a more conformist culture like japan where there is much more heavy pressure to fit in and conform with societal norms/think of others/not inconvenience others etc.  BTW, I'm not saying one is better than the other, I think there are tradeoffs, in some conditions that individualistic nature can be a positive and in others a negative, and in more collectivist and conformist cultures, sometimes that too is a great positive and sometimes a negative.  Personally I think things like school shootings are less about guns and access to guns and more about an individualistic culture that fosters certain select people having a temper tantrum in such an extreme way.  But shootings still happen in other countries though with less frequency. Radicalization doesn't necessarily know boundaries in the internet age

 

For the record, I'm of the camp that thinks the dude in the video is riding like an ***.  Whether you are a car, bike, motorcycle, scooter, unicycle, marty mcfly hoverboard if you want to use traffic lanes you obey the laws of traffic lanes which means stopping at red lights, coming to an almost complete stop at stop signs and stopping completely if other cars are present before you and don't wave you through, and not slaloming across multiple lanes of traffic like a snowboarder.

 

edit:

Quote

Young men without fear or care for others. 

Great as recruits for USMC or Navy Top Gun Fighter pilots, not so for EUC on public roads.

This is also a mischaracterization.  The air force wouldn't want anyone who can't follow rules or regs anywhere near their hundred million dollar planes/helos and wouldn't want to invest millions in training such individuals.

I don't think the USMC would want them either or even army infantry as dudes who can't follow rules and regs and who have a god complex get others killed when they don't listen to orders, act like a hot shot, or otherwise put others in harms way by acting the fool and then need rescuing because they were doing all of the above.

Armed services does attract some of those types but the services would much rather have those who are gung ho, but gung ho in check and can follow orders and regulations.

 

I think your characterization of certain things in the US would be like me thinking that everyone in australia is like paul hogan (dundee) and there's roos hopping through the streets of sydney regularly and box jellyfish just come out of the sink riding on the back of a funnel web spider that's chasing a poisonous snake.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Heyzeus

[null]

24 minutes ago, Paul A said:

This video is even more disturbing.

Titled: Riding down Amsterdam Ave Full Send with Kamikaze Joe. 

Posting it here is just getting it views which again encourages that behaviour..

[Paulo Mesquita]

21 minutes ago, Paul A said:

The youtube video does state that it 'Includes paid promotion'.

Young males, no empathy. "Me Only" culture?

 

Such divergent views of community members. 

Could it be cultural differences? 

Like attitudes to gun control. 

General public having legal, unlimited access to military assault weapons.

Abhorrent to some, total sense to others.

 

This video is even more disturbing.

Titled: Riding down Amsterdam Ave Full Send with Kamikaze Joe. 

Aug 18, 2020   1,038 views  51 likes  8 dislikes

All of the total 12 viewer comments think it is great.

 

Same again. 

Ignoring red lights at intersections, blasting through crossings with pedestrians on them, wrong side of the road, squeezing/weaving between cars, at very high speeds, etc.

 

Young men without fear or care for others. 

Great as recruits for USMC or Navy Top Gun Fighter pilots, not so for EUC on public roads.

 

 

 

 

 

... And now you can't ride an EUC in Amsterdam... I wonder why? 

[.....]

24 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

 means stopping at red lights, coming to an almost complete stop at stop signs and stopping completely if other cars are present before you and don't wave you through, and not slaloming across multiple lanes of traffic like a snowboarder.

I do agree with the majority of  your post and get what you're saying. I just couldnt help but laugh so damn hard at the 'almost' in your post. See how easy it is to bend what we percieve is correct. Some go so far as to make up their own exceptions to a DIRECT and simple word, even tho the letter of the law is the ONLY word on the sign? Just an observation and I HAD to point it out. Nothing personal at all, but surely you also see the irony? Perhaps THIS is why the rest of the country refers to it as 'california stop', when we merely slow for a stop sign, thus violating the law and endangering the public. Stop means stop around here,  if you dont stop, its harder for the eye to focus on the intersection.  We use 'yield' signs when we dont actually mean stop. But hey, to each their own if its NIMBY. When I do a california stop, I do know that I'm breaking the law and being kind of a di*k. Im not sure stop signs only apply when we think we don't see anyone. I'd bet a LOT of accidents are from people simply not seeing a car, even tho they KNOW they looked. Hmm, guess they shoulda stopped completely and looked twice... Or at least YELLED as they ride thru the intersection. You know, how its done on an euc.  "GET THE F**K outta the way, that sign doesnt pertain to me, especially since Im in a race!"

Edited July 26, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Heyzeus]

9 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I do agree with the majority of  your post and get what you're saying. I just couldnt help but laugh so damn hard at the 'almost' in your post. See how easy it is to bend what we percieve is correct, even tho the letter of the law is the ONLY word on the sign? Just an observation and I HAD to point it out. Nothing personal at all, but surely you also see the irony? Perhaps THIS is why the rst of the country refers to it as 'california stop', when we merely slow for a stop sign. SHouldnt it be called a 'slow' sign?

when I say almost complete stop, I am for all intents and purposes stopped, I just haven't put a foot down.  Basically inching forward fast enough to not lose balance but slow enough that a turtle could beat me in a race, the absolute slowest speed one can go while keeping the wheel upright(I should learn how to pendulum).  The only reason I don't put a foot down usually is because cars seem to get confused when I do and look at me wondering why I stopped then wave me through even though they were there 1st.

Be me, approaching 4 way stop, other cars already stopped, they have right of way.  I approach and slow to a crawl and they either A. Wave me through ceding the right of way (which they shouldn't) or B. I stop, put a foot down, they then proceed to wave me through.  No dude, I stopped, you have right of way, just follow the rules and go, but they get confused and it seems to take their smooth brains 10 seconds too long to comprehend the situation.

4 was stops are very annoying on an EUC because of the combination of people seeing something they haven't seen before and who just don't know how to handle the situation for some reason.

It's like dude, I stopped, don't wave me through, by the time I remount and get up to speed you could have already gone through.  And that's not even considering that because someone is watching me I'll probably do something stupid and clip the pedal with my foot as I remount because I'm overthinking and then stumble and have to remount again and it takes even longer.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Heyzeus

[.....]

12 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

when I say almost complete stop, I am for all intents and purposes stopped, I just haven't put a foot down.  Basically inching forward fast enough to not lose balance but slow enough that a turtle could beat me in a race, the absolute slowest speed one can go while keeping the wheel upright(I should learn how to pendulum).  The only reason I don't put a foot down usually is because cars seem to get confused when I do and look at me wondering why I stopped then wave me through even though they were there 1st.

Be me, approaching 4 way stop, other cars already stopped, they have right of way.  I approach and slow to a crawl and they either A. Wave me through ceding the right of way (which they shouldn't) or B. I stop, put a foot down, they then proceed to wave me through.  No dude, I stopped, you have right of way, just follow the rules and go, but they get confused and it seems to take their smooth brains 10 seconds too long to comprehend the situation.

4 was stops are very annoying on an EUC because of the combination of people seeing something they haven't seen before and who just don't know how to handle the situation for some reason.

It's like dude, I stopped, don't wave me through, by the time I remount and get up to speed you could have already gone through.  And that's not even considering that because someone is watching me I'll probably do something stupid and clip the pedal with my foot as I remount because I'm overthinking and then stumble and have to remount again and it takes even longer.

I totally get it man. I thought you meant in a car. Even so, if we want to be completely able to point a finger about breaking laws... 

Isnt it funny how people try to be nice yet disrupt the traffic flow and create dangerous situations? How about the people who randomly stop in the middle of the street to watch you play in a parking lot. People waving someone out into traffic as a car blasts by in the next lane...  Consistency would help, but humans aint so great for that.

Sometimes it IS more dangerous to follow the letter of the law. I honestly don't know the legal precision about how that goes. Hell, if we want to get really picky about it, we may discover the euc lacks a few items it needs to be technically legal on public roadways altogether. Perhaps theres another 20 pages in that debate too! I claim ignorance as I am SURE my euc is currently legal as are all the ways i choose to ride it....

I'd admit to doing exactly as you do when on my euc, but I wont admit NUTHIN! Some odd reason, I've begun blurring my videos at stop signs and my head up speedometer randomly stops working on open straight aways. You know, cuz glitches and all.

Not picking on you man, I just thought it was funny. Besides, I've gotta help do my part to keep this novel going!

Edited July 26, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Paul A]

Identification plate on wheels, registration of owner details.

Enables traceability for accountability.

Deterrence of reckless behaviour.

 

[.....]

8 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Identification plate on wheels, registration of owner details.

Enables traceability for accountability.

Deterrence of reckless behaviour.

 

Yup, that would curb a lot of it. Its also killing a big reason I enjoy being an euc rider. However, NYC is full of 4-wheelers and dirtbikes and unlicensed drivers that mob the streets like gangs at any time. I doubt those are registered for accountability. Seems that there isnt an easy solution at all from ANY angle. It would take a complete police state to make enforecement of all these things, a given. Noone ever said freedom was easy and a tolerant society was perfectly safe or free from wrecklessness. I like to remember that for everythnig I think may be bad, theres also a good to it. The grey area is my play ground and yup, it comes at a price to myself and my society. Thats kind of how USA sets itself up, or at least thats how it has been.

I am enjoying all these points of view. I also enjoy how each of us is passionate about how we view it. If nothing else, it shows that we are somewhat happy with our own countries and I am proud of ALL of us, for being proud of where we stand on this and where we come from. I take joy in the fact that NYC has people who feel as they do (gross generalization), even if I don't agree. God bless America and every other country out there, that has people doing what THEY feel they need be doing. If God aint your thing, then happy karma or whatever floats your boat!

Edited July 26, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Paul A]

Riding down Amsterdam Ave Full Send with Kamikaze Joe. 

This behaviour is abhorrent, it is very disturbing.

[Sumako]

4 hours ago, CarlW said:

I guess his retirement is over?  I recall Clark Pads sponsored the event/video that sparked this discussion along with other companies.  In retrospect Ewheels stated they did not support the events that took place.  I wonder what Clark Pads position was?         

Oh it looks like you finally got your wheel. Congrats on being a real rider now.

[Heyzeus]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Isnt it funny how people try to be nice yet disrupt the traffic flow and create dangerous situations? How about the people who randomly stop in the middle of the street to watch you play in a parking lot. People waving someone out into traffic as a car blasts by in the next lane...  Consistency would help, but humans aint so great for that.

A lot of people drive with absolutely no sense of purpose, just lackadaisically flowing through life.  Costco is like a microcosm of this.  People just be driving their cart then abruptly stop in the middle of an aisle.  Or a husband and wife walking two abreast making it hard for people going the opposite direction to get by.  Or someone looking at an item while their cart is behind them rather than to the side making it impossible to get through.  And then it takes like 10 seconds for them to realize you are there trying to get through and then you say "excuse me" and they reply "oh oh I'm sorry". When I'm going through costco, I move with purpose, I move quick, I keep my cart to the side and out of the way as much as possible or park it in a nook and walk down the aisle so it blocks traffic the least.

I don't know how people make it through life into their 30's/40's/and beyond with seemingly no spatial awareness or peripheral vision.  If costco was the savannah these people would be the injured gazelles and water buffalo 1st to be taken down 

Quote

Sometimes it IS more dangerous to follow the letter of the law. I honestly don't know the legal precision about how that goes. 

You see that a lot with people who like to go 65mph (or slower) in the leftmost passing lane because "that's the speed limit".  Flow of traffic is going 75-80/85, with the leftmost lane being the fastest and here this person merges onto the freeway at 45mph applying so little pressure to the gas pedal you would think the pedal was made out of needles and they were barefoot and this was just some form of draconian torture for them.  They manage to accelerate up to 65mph just in time to merge into the leftmost lane without using their blinker while someone is coming up on them fast going 85 and has to step on their breaks hard to not cause an accident or maybe they don't notice quick enough and bam.

[Paulo Mesquita]

2 hours ago, Heyzeus said:

Not to get political but I really don't see the connection between riding like a dick and gun control.  I say this as a very socially liberal person and generally liberal person otherwise that supports the 2nd amendment here in the states because I think it's a good check/balance against excess government overreach and stopping stuff from getting to the point like it got in Hong Kong and elsewhere in the world.

I Think there's better analogies that could be made.

Like the difference between an individualistic culture vs a more collectivist/conformist culture.

In a more conformist culture you will have less people acting out and being a fool because of the collectivist or conformist nature, vs a individualistic culture you will have those individuals that recognize it as dick behavior and don't do it and others who either don't see it as dick behavior or don't care because of the individualistic nature of the culture and the lack of pressure to fit a mold and conform with the norm and thus "ride how they want"

Basically, in the US which is more individualistic I would expect to see more riders riding with lack of regard and being a fool compared to a more conformist culture like japan where there is much more heavy pressure to fit in and conform with societal norms/think of others/not inconvenience others etc.  BTW, I'm not saying one is better than the other, I think there are tradeoffs, in some conditions that individualistic nature can be a positive and in others a negative, and in more collectivist and conformist cultures, sometimes that too is a great positive and sometimes a negative.  Personally I think things like school shootings are less about guns and access to guns and more about an individualistic culture that fosters certain select people having a temper tantrum in such an extreme way.  But shootings still happen in other countries though with less frequency. Radicalization doesn't necessarily know boundaries in the internet age

 

For the record, I'm of the camp that thinks the dude in the video is riding like an ***.  Whether you are a car, bike, motorcycle, scooter, unicycle, marty mcfly hoverboard if you want to use traffic lanes you obey the laws of traffic lanes which means stopping at red lights, coming to an almost complete stop at stop signs and stopping completely if other cars are present before you and don't wave you through, and not slaloming across multiple lanes of traffic like a snowboarder.

 

edit:

This is also a mischaracterization.  The air force wouldn't want anyone who can't follow rules or regs anywhere near their hundred million dollar planes/helos and wouldn't want to invest millions in training such individuals.

I don't think the USMC would want them either or even army infantry as dudes who can't follow rules and regs and who have a god complex get others killed when they don't listen to orders, act like a hot shot, or otherwise put others in harms way by acting the fool and then need rescuing because they were doing all of the above.

Armed services does attract some of those types but the services would much rather have those who are gung ho, but gung ho in check and can follow orders and regulations.

 

I think your characterization of certain things in the US would be like me thinking that everyone in australia is like paul hogan (dundee) and there's roos hopping through the streets of sydney regularly and box jellyfish just come out of the sink riding on the back of a funnel web spider that's chasing a poisonous snake.

I think @Paul Awas referring about guns had only to do with cultural differences.

As an example, and to illustrate these differences, my country Portugal is one of the safest I. The world for many reasons, but a very important one has to do with the fact that it's extremely difficult for a citizen to own a gun. The exeptions are shotguns for hunting, shooting range club members with 22 calliber precision pistols and rifles and the eventos pistol for security when you own a jewelery store etc. 

So when we see normal citizens in the US buying M15 automatic rifles... It's extremely shocking to us. As it is the amount of mass shootings commuted with those war weapons. It is actually a cultural punch in the face to us. 

Thas how different our cultures are... and the US and Portugal are both western countries and long life allies. Now imagine how it must look to more far away cultures... 

[Paulo Mesquita]

2 hours ago, Heyzeus said:

when I say almost complete stop, I am for all intents and purposes stopped, I just haven't put a foot down.  Basically inching forward fast enough to not lose balance but slow enough that a turtle could beat me in a race, the absolute slowest speed one can go while keeping the wheel upright(I should learn how to pendulum).  The only reason I don't put a foot down usually is because cars seem to get confused when I do and look at me wondering why I stopped then wave me through even though they were there 1st.

Be me, approaching 4 way stop, other cars already stopped, they have right of way.  I approach and slow to a crawl and they either A. Wave me through ceding the right of way (which they shouldn't) or B. I stop, put a foot down, they then proceed to wave me through.  No dude, I stopped, you have right of way, just follow the rules and go, but they get confused and it seems to take their smooth brains 10 seconds too long to comprehend the situation.

4 was stops are very annoying on an EUC because of the combination of people seeing something they haven't seen before and who just don't know how to handle the situation for some reason.

It's like dude, I stopped, don't wave me through, by the time I remount and get up to speed you could have already gone through.  And that's not even considering that because someone is watching me I'll probably do something stupid and clip the pedal with my foot as I remount because I'm overthinking and then stumble and have to remount again and it takes even longer.

😂😂😂😂... I feel you brother!! I've dealt so many times with this brain paralysis of car drivers, on crossroads, roundabouts... and particularly when they're overtaking me. I see them through my helmet's rear view mirror and I wave to them to overtake. Man, sometimes I have to wave over and over again for the to overtake!!!! 

[Heyzeus]

1 hour ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

As an example, and to illustrate these differences, my country Portugal is one of the safest I. The world for many reasons, but a very important one has to do with the fact that it's extremely difficult for a citizen to own a gun. The exeptions are shotguns for hunting, shooting range club members with 22 calliber precision pistols and rifles and the eventos pistol for security when you own a jewelery store etc. 

So when we see normal citizens in the US buying M15 automatic rifles... It's extremely shocking to us. As it is the amount of mass shootings commuted with those war weapons. It is actually a cultural punch in the face to us. 

I think the issue with guns though is people get hung up on the actual tool rather than the underlying problem.  I don't live in portugal or europe but like if guns were legalized in portugal tomorrow I bet not much would change in the country violence wise.  Most people probably wouldn't go out and get one or feel the need to have one.  Those who weren't going to commit crimes aren't going to suddenly go out and start shooting places up.  I've said to a friend before that if you were to suddenly give every person in japan a gun, almost none would buy ammo and they would use it as a doorstop if they didn't just throw it away.

I think guns in america are just a tool, the underlying problem is more of a cultural problem than a gun problem one, this is one of the negatives of such high individualism.  Guns enable bad actors to harm others conveniently but because of the underlying cultural problem I think if guns were to suddenly and magically disappear those who would be so inclined to have an emotional tantrum and shoot up a school/workplace/store etc would go and use a different tool.  Probably their car to run through a crowd since a knife is too up close.  In addition guns are prevalent enough in america when it comes to gangs that I think making them illegal would significantly harm non criminals in their ability to protect against criminals or home invasion.  Making them illegal would stop the everyday person from getting one, but it wouldn't stop a drug dealer, robber, someone in a gang or who otherwise doesn't care about breaking the law from getting one.  It's like you can't put the helium back in the balloon once you let it out.

Guns were such a foundational part of our founding, they were used to gain independence and to hunt and fend for oneself on the frontier they were so important we ingrained them as literally the 2nd most important thing in the bill of rights after freedom of speech. And then the wild west wouldn't be the wild west without handguns and all that entailed.  So guns are so ingrained in our founding and culture that not being able to have them would seem really weird when you have grown up your whole life being told it's your right to defend yourself and your castle. Obviously not all of this was good, the native americans probably weren't too happy about the whole gun thing.  I don't know if any country out there exists that doesn't have a bloody past built on displacing one group to gain/gather resources for another groups benefit.  Maybe the penguin empire of Antartica is relatively blood free.

It's a really complicated issue, I remember reading some articles about people in New Zealand who got rid of/turned in/surrendered their guns after the christ church shooting but...the people who surrendered their guns are exactly the type of people that never would have gone out and done something bad with them in the first place so does it actually accomplish anything other than being theatre while making some of those people less safe...I don't know...maybe it was more of a statement than anything to say "this is how much our culture isn't about this".

I see so many people that think you can just apply European policies to the US and it will just crossover but without addressing the underlying cultural issues I don't think it would be very effective.

However, the majority of americans don't have any guns(1/3 of the adult population does), of those that do anything more than a handgun or shotgun/hunting rifle is pretty rare.  Most people who have weapons that look like an m15 really have semiautomatic type rifles that look fancy and don't actually own a machine gun and certainly most normal citizens do not.  People aren't walking around with uzi's or tommy guns and other automatic rifles.  I don't personally own a gun, someday I'll inherit my dad's 1956 browning shotgun that he inherited from his father(who grew up around a farm) but otherwise feel no need to own a gun.

That said, the right to own one is incredibly important to me.

Like I said, I trend towards the very liberal side but I always find it funny that many of the people who are most outspoken against cops and cops abusing their power (look at this whole past year with the black lives matter movement), the ones who go around saying the police are horribly corrupt(I agree to a point), ACAB(I disagree with), all cops should be defunded(I disagree with) are the same people who want to take away the 2nd amendment rights or severely limit them.  If i felt all cops are murderous thugs, the last thing I would want to do is repeal the 2nd amendment and leave myself vulnerable and end up like hong kong/belarus/any other politically unstable country where the police are used as the boot of the govt to enforce authoritarianism on the people.  So they want to get rid of cops and they want to get rid of guns which well in LA would mean only the gang members using unregistered illegal firearms would have guns.  That sounds like an awesome recipe.  The very friends who spent the past 4 years railing against trump being a fascist dictator and saw the January Insurrection **** show at the capitol are the very same people that want to ditch the 2nd amendment and be disarmed and vulnerable to those groups.  To me it makes absolutely no sense.  But our political climate is so different from the likes of western europe and the Scandinavian countries that they just aren't really comparable in policies and outcomes sometimes.

Anyways, I'm sorry, I got sidetracked again and this has nothing to do with EUCs so mods feel free to delete if you want lol, I started replying and then wrote too much as I always do.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Heyzeus

[GothamMike]

On 7/23/2021 at 4:32 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

It's a shame really because the sentiment behind this thread is very heartfelt around the globe. Here in the UK they've recently officially made EUC's illegal and imposed fines, confiscation of your wheel and removing half the points from your drivers license (ie if it happens twice then you can't drive). Why's this happened? because young (and sometimes not so young) idiots ride around with no respect for others. It's mostly been escooter riders here in the UK (simply because there are more of them) but I went on a group EUC ride and people were riding fast on crowded footpaths accompanied by loud music. Is it because they all feel they're playing GTA or is it because that's how "advanced" riders on youtube ride?

I honestly see these youtube videos as just hammering nails into the coffin of EUC riding. I appreciate that they get more clicks by showing aggressive riding on youtube but sadly younger, more impressionable, riders feel they have to ride the same way. That then results in crackdowns and that means less sales going forward - I personally won't buy another wheel until they're legal in my country. If I do get caught then I'll have to give up as I just can't afford to loose my license.

It's a shame because these things (EUC, escooters etc) are a valid answer to city transport. They're cheap to run, there's no pollution, they reduce congestion and they're a really fun way to get around. Unfortunately, nearly all our youtube "spokespeople" promote them as urban weapons to be ridden in the most aggressive way possible. I guess all I can do is just press the thumbs down each time I see videos like this. 

It’s all about the clicks and 5 minutes of internet fame, dude!

[.....]

57 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

I think the issue with guns though is people get hung up on the actual tool rather than the underlying problem.  I don't live in portugal or europe but like if guns were legalized in portugal tomorrow I bet not much would change in the country violence wise.  Most people probably wouldn't go out and get one or feel the need to have one.  Those who weren't going to commit crimes aren't going to suddenly go out and start shooting places up.  I've said to a friend before that if you were to suddenly give every person in japan a gun, almost none would buy ammo and they would use it as a doorstop if they didn't just throw it away.

I think guns in america are just a tool, the underlying problem is more of a cultural problem than a gun problem one, this is one of the negatives of such high individualism.  Guns enable bad actors to harm others conveniently but because of the underlying cultural problem I think if guns were to suddenly and magically disappear those who would be so inclined to have an emotional tantrum and shoot up a school/workplace/store etc would go and use a different tool.  Probably their car to run through a crowd since a knife is too up close.  In addition guns are prevalent enough in america when it comes to gangs that I think making them illegal would significantly harm non criminals in their ability to protect against criminals or home invasion.  Making them illegal would stop the everyday person from getting one, but it wouldn't stop a drug dealer, robber, someone in a gang or who otherwise doesn't care about breaking the law from getting one.  It's like you can't put the helium back in the balloon once you let it out.

Guns were such a foundational part of our founding, they were used to gain independence and to hunt and fend for oneself on the frontier they were so important we ingrained them as literally the 2nd most important thing in the bill of rights after freedom of speech. And then the wild west wouldn't be the wild west without handguns and all that entailed.  So guns are so ingrained in our founding and culture that not being able to have them would seem really weird when you have grown up your whole life being told it's your right to defend yourself and your castle. Obviously not all of this was good, the native americans probably weren't too happy about the whole gun thing.  I don't know if any country out there exists that doesn't have a bloody past built on displacing one group to gain/gather resources for another groups benefit.  Maybe the penguin empire of Antartica is relatively blood free.

It's a really complicated issue, I remember reading some articles about people in New Zealand who got rid of/turned in/surrendered their guns after the christ church shooting but...the people who surrendered their guns are exactly the type of people that never would have gone out and done something bad with them in the first place so does it actually accomplish anything other than being theatre while making some of those people less safe...I don't know...maybe it was more of a statement than anything to say "this is how much our culture isn't about this".

I see so many people that think you can just apply European policies to the US and it will just crossover but without addressing the underlying cultural issues I don't think it would be very effective.

However, the majority of americans don't have any guns(1/3 of the adult population does), of those that do anything more than a handgun or shotgun/hunting rifle is pretty rare.  Most people who have weapons that look like an m15 really have semiautomatic type rifles that look fancy and don't actually own a machine gun and certainly most normal citizens do not.  People aren't walking around with uzi's or tommy guns and other automatic rifles.  I don't personally own a gun, someday I'll inherit my dad's 1956 browning shotgun that he inherited from his father(who grew up around a farm) but otherwise feel no need to own a gun.

That said, the right to own one is incredibly important to me.

Like I said, I trend towards the very liberal side but I always find it funny that many of the people who are most outspoken against cops and cops abusing their power (look at this whole past year with the black lives matter movement), the ones who go around saying the police are horribly corrupt(I agree to a point), ACAB(I disagree with), all cops should be defunded(I disagree with) are the same people who want to take away the 2nd amendment rights or severely limit them.  If i felt all cops are murderous thugs, the last thing I would want to do is repeal the 2nd amendment and leave myself vulnerable and end up like hong kong/belarus/any other politically unstable country where the police are used as the boot of the govt to enforce authoritarianism on the people.  So they want to get rid of cops and they want to get rid of guns which well in LA would mean only the gang members using unregistered illegal firearms would have guns.  That sounds like an awesome recipe.  The very friends who spent the past 4 years railing against trump being a fascist dictator and saw the January Insurrection **** show at the capitol are the very same people that want to ditch the 2nd amendment and be disarmed and vulnerable to those groups.  To me it makes absolutely no sense.  But our political climate is so different from the likes of western europe and the Scandinavian countries that they just aren't really comparable in policies and outcomes sometimes.

Anyways, I'm sorry, I got sidetracked again and this has nothing to do with EUCs so mods feel free to delete if you want lol, I started replying and then wrote too much as I always do.

Damn, well said. It all makes perfect sense to me. But of course, it likely would as I am born and raised in the midwest of America. I would also suspect that people of other countries just can't fathom how we could make sense of what we think. I marvel at how 'marvelous' it is that we are all humans (most of us), yet come to such different conclusions. It just goes to show that we adapt and societies really do influence our very core. The helium is defintiely out of the bottle in the usa. Its hard to believe but for as many guns as there are, very few are carried and MOST people see it as a way to maintain peace, not violence. Sounds really weird to some... guns to maintain peace? Perspective can blame weapons or celebrate them, depending on how they are used and if the 'victor' is telling the tale. I'd bet the penguins had some bloody revolutions as well....

This aint a thread derail, this is a short break while we wait for the next round of riled up euc riders. If we wait long enough, maybe we'll find another video to get us back on track to the 100+ zone...

[mrelwood]

 

12 hours ago, conecones said:

no amount of discussion, reasoning, or logic is going to sway them - the only meaningful way to change their mind may be that we simply need to see more deaths

 

12 hours ago, conecones said:

real consequences need to be experienced first hand.

1. I fully agree. But… see section 3. (Can’t reorder the quotes on a mobile.)

 

12 hours ago, conecones said:

Your worry is more a problem with the local government, and less about how a group of EUC riders behave in another country...

2. While fundamentally true, it would still be the hooligan EUC group that caused the change in the broken legal system.

If law making process was much less faulty in itself and if politicians were much better informed and didn’t have as many secondary agendas, fixing a wrongful, inconsistent or baseless new law would probably be the way to go. But the reality is extremely far from that, so the only thing we can do is to make best of the current system. Which includes acting in a way that wouldn’t even cause the politicians to consider whether we should be policed or limited further than we currently are.

 It will take years until UK or Germany will be open to EUCs. Yes, the problem is in their stupid laws that make no sense, but it’s the current riders and the people who won’t even try an EUC because of the current laws who suffer for the years it takes for things to change down there.

 

11 hours ago, Heyzeus said:

In a more conformist culture you will have less people acting out and being a fool because of the collectivist or conformist nature

3. In that sense I see the EUC community as being much more conformist than the general US mentality. And peer pressure does exist there as well. If the community condemns someone’s riding behavior, the rider has the choice to ride alone in the future or change one’s habits.

Ewheels opting out from the Alleycat race is a great example of this. I’m absolutely sure that EVX took it to heart. It definitely was directly effected by the community’s outcry, this thread included. 

 

11 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I just couldnt help but laugh so damn hard at the 'almost' in your post. See how easy it is to bend what we percieve is correct. Some go so far as to make up their own exceptions to a DIRECT and simple word, even tho the letter of the law is the ONLY word on the sign?
 

4. Besides the direct word of the law, there is being in accordance, or should I say: to follow the intent behind the law. I for example didn’t fully stop at the stop sign when applying for a drivers’ license. Yet it was approved since I made the necessary observations, which is the actual intent behind the stop sign.

 

11 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

the rest of the country refers to it as 'california stop', when we merely slow for a stop sign, thus violating the law and endangering the public.

5. If you endanger the public or cause disturbance to the flow of traffic by not stopping at the stop sign, you had not made the necessary observations and thus didn’t follow the intent behind the stop sign.

I believe following the intent of the law is what keeps us riding EUCs in countries where they would be illegal if following the strict word of the law. Having us ride sensibly and following the rules causes zero harm to the traffic or the society. And that’s why law makers don’t see the need to ban us, even if we grow in number. Rental e-scooters are legal, but since so many use them against the intent of the law and good habits, law makers are constantly considering new laws that would help the catastrophe of a situation they have caused.

Despite the word of law often has to be extremely complex to be able to cover all possible scenarios, the intent is extremely simple: Behave.

[Paulo Mesquita]

19 hours ago, GothamMike said:

It’s all about the clicks and 5 minutes of internet fame, dude!

@Heyzeus, picking up on your opinion, and @ShanesPlanet opinion, I agree with some ideas and disagree with others.

What I agree with:

It is true that many European countries were built on violence I. The past. Look at Portugal, 900 years in the making, fighting Roman's, Spaniards and Arabs, plus chasing jews, building a 500 year old colonial empire, being a stronghold catholic country for the Holy Inquisition, and a major player in the cruelty of slave trading. 

... However I don't believe that putting guns at our reach right now would have any effect on our civil behavior. You see, we're now a country with great weather, beautiful beaches, fantastic food, and we're always welcoming and helpful to everyone. This makes us also a country of softies who obey to almost everything. But because our politics are so liberal, we're basically not forced to anything. And so, guns aren't a necessity. 

I agree on your comment about cops. But the controversy on police behavior in the States, reminds me of of the oldest riddle in the book: what came first? The chicken or the egg? 

What I mean to say is that I understand the police hard-line behavior in the US, because they never know who's in a traffic stopping operation and if that person has a gun in the car. I understand this, but one has to ask... if the US population was unarmed, how would the cops act? 

When I visit the US now, I'm afraid of cops (nothing to do with BLM). It's just that their approach is, to an european, too agressive for comfort. 

And another thing about gangs and guns: when no one besides them has a gun, it's extremely easy to pinpoint these gangs and wipe them out. We've done this in Portugal a few times. 

Don't get me wrong: I love American culture more than I love my country's culture. My "educational fathers" were all American authors of the 20th century. You name them... I've read them. However, today I fear the US, as I fear China or Russia. I believe there is a World War Four (WW 3 is right now against ourinvisible enemy, Covid 19) in the making between the US and China, because of the economic overtaking of China over the US, and over Taiwan. And if it does happen, Russia will be tilting the scale to where its more convenient. 

Back to guns I'd like to point out that sometimes I ask myself that if the Founding Fathers had determined, in the Constitution and alongside the right to bear arms... the right to own a horse... would a big slice of the population be riding their horses to work. 

You see, AND PLEASE DON'T BE Angry, the argument of the constitution for having a gun doesn't stick with me. 

I believe that in 1st place, there is a need from guns dealers to keep sales high. In 2nd there is deep fracture in the American society that feeds on fear for thy neighbor, and in 3rd place I've been witnessing from afar a buildup of a police state mentality in a country that I love and admire. 

As an ex- advertising copywriter with 30 years of experience I know what is the best selling motivator to the human nature: fear. In any country and in any culture. 

In the States, unfortunately, it's currently selling like hell and it breaks my heart to witness this.

Im afraid for the US. I've been fearing, for the past decade, another civil war in the US. I don't want this to happen to my American friends and because a weak US would only empower China and Russia. AND WE CAN'T HAVE THAT!!! 

In closing my total derrail of the topic, I believe that being liberal and free doesn't necessary imply having a gun. Being liberal and free implies a state of mind and mentality that a given society nurtures... or doesn't. 

But there are no perfect societies... 

Will someone please put up another controversial EUC video so we don't derrail off topic again? 😜😜😜😜😜

Edited July 27, 2021 by Paulo Mesquita

[Sumako]

On 7/24/2021 at 3:13 PM, Paulo Mesquita said:

These kind of EUC riders are the ones that will eventually screw us, when laws come out and sweep us all into the same bin. Wait and see. 

Dear international people, riders in the US, or NYC have zero impact on your laws. PERIOD! 

This is why we desperately need to separate this topic. A version for United States members and version for the rest of y’all. I can not tell you how many time you folks outside of the US have been told that you do not understand the nuances of these different city cultures. Y’all get upset when a NYC rider pops in here and, unfortunately, rudely, tells you; “you don’t get it”. They’re right, you don’t. Therefor you should not be judging their riding culture over some senseless fear that their action will impact your ride. It’s stupid! 

37 pages all in, and you’re still bitching about riders in the US. One of y’all spent time using the Ally Cat video to try and figure out how fast one of the riders was going? Are you kidding? Seriously get a grip. 

You want your right to ride your roads in your country? Then make signs, get your communities together and start PROTESTING! Oh wait, there has been some protests. Well, do it more. Do it every weekend, what ever it takes. Your governments have fucking you and your communities. Take back your roads, people. You all in the UK? Ever heard of Crony Capitalism? Well it is being done to you right now. Bird and other PEV rentals made a massive deal where they spent MILLIONS to compel your local governments to make laws making riding any other PEV other than BIRD illegal. You good with that, England? Has nothing to do with safety. Your local governments sold YOUR streets to a share ride rental company. That means not matter what you try; insurance, platting, license plat your wheel, register your wheel. HAH! None of that will work. Bird payed millions so that your government will NEVER allow other PEVs street legal. So get out there and make some noise. Tell your local governments you want your streets back. BIRD does not deserve your PEV spaces. 

What goes on in the United States of America regarding EUC riders has ZERO anything to do with your PEV legislation problems. Mickey’s video has no impact on your life. What other riders do has no impact.  What Americans do with their EUCs has nothing to do with you. 

YOU are the only impact in your country. So instead of having a whinge over American EUCs trying doing something about getting your streets back.

[Paulo Mesquita]

1 hour ago, Sumako said:

Dear international people, riders in the US, or NYC have zero impact on your laws. PERIOD! 

This is why we desperately need to separate this topic. A version for United States members and version for the rest of y’all. I can not tell you how many time you folks outside of the US have been told that you do not understand the nuances of these different city cultures. Y’all get upset when a NYC rider pops in here and, unfortunately, rudely, tells you; “you don’t get it”. They’re right, you don’t. Therefor you should not be judging their riding culture over some senseless fear that their action will impact your ride. It’s stupid! 

37 pages all in, and you’re still bitching about riders in the US. One of y’all spent time using the Ally Cat video to try and figure out how fast one of the riders was going? Are you kidding? Seriously get a grip. 

You want your right to ride your roads in your country? Then make signs, get your communities together and start PROTESTING! Oh wait, there has been some protests. Well, do it more. Do it every weekend, what ever it takes. Your governments have fucking you and your communities. Take back your roads, people. You all in the UK? Ever heard of Crony Capitalism? Well it is being done to you right now. Bird and other PEV rentals made a massive deal where they spent MILLIONS to compel your local governments to make laws making riding any other PEV other than BIRD illegal. You good with that, England? Has nothing to do with safety. Your local governments sold YOUR streets to a share ride rental company. That means not matter what you try; insurance, platting, license plat your wheel, register your wheel. HAH! None of that will work. Bird payed millions so that your government will NEVER allow other PEVs street legal. So get out there and make some noise. Tell your local governments you want your streets back. BIRD does not deserve your PEV spaces. 

What goes on in the United States of America regarding EUC riders has ZERO anything to do with your PEV legislation problems. Mickey’s video has no impact on your life. What other riders do has no impact.  What Americans do with their EUCs has nothing to do with you. 

YOU are the only impact in your country. So instead of having a whinge over American EUCs trying doing something about getting your streets back.

Hey @Sumako... I'm bitching at EU and portuguese riders with the same idiotic and irresponsable behavior pattern as the US ones. 😂😂😂😂😂

[yoos]

1 hour ago, Sumako said:

What goes on in the United States of America regarding EUC riders has ZERO anything to do with your PEV legislation problems. Mickey’s video has no impact on your life. What other riders do has no impact.  What Americans do with their EUCs has nothing to do with you. 

Dear Sumako, this is a very bold statement . Your message looks to me like "mind your own business! This does not concern you!", as I understand it. 

It us up to me to decide what impacts me and my life and what does not. I am concerned about what happened in the video. It is basic human empathy -- I feel bad and scared for the frightened pedestrians. This has nothing to do with where I or they live and whether legal consequences might be expected.

Still, speaking of legal consequences - surely, you do not claim to understand how legislation works in all the other countries better than their residents/citizen? It has been stated multiple times in this thread that legislators routinely look for examples and precedents in other countries when formulating new laws. Youtube is global: whatever is published by a NYC content creator will be broadcasted around the world. If you do not wish for comments from other countries, do not make such footage available for everyone.

1 hour ago, Sumako said:

37 pages all in, and you’re still bitching about riders in the US.

Indeed, the primary objective of this thread  Seriously, though, this thread is [mostly] about a particular video and particular behavior and not US riders (or even NYC riders) in general. This is not a US vs Rest of the world dichotomy.

2 hours ago, Sumako said:

You want your right to ride your roads in your country? Then make signs, get your communities together and start PROTESTING!

That's classic whataboutism. We are discussing a particular problem here. You are saying that people should focus on a different problem instead. That other problem might be legit and, perhaps, more consequential. Still, this does not change or counter the arguments of this thread one bit. 

[Paulo Mesquita]

5 minutes ago, yoos said:

Dear Sumako, this is a very bold statement . Your message looks to me like "mind your own business! This does not concern you!", as I understand it. 

It us up to me to decide what impacts me and my life and what does not. I am concerned about what happened in the video. It is basic human empathy -- I feel bad and scared for the frightened pedestrians. This has nothing to do with where I or they live and whether legal consequences might be expected.

Still, speaking of legal consequences - surely, you do not claim to understand how legislation works in all the other countries better than their residents/citizen? It has been stated multiple times in this thread that legislators routinely look for examples and precedents in other countries when formulating new laws. Youtube is global: whatever is published by a NYC content creator will be broadcasted around the world. If you do not wish for comments from other countries, do not make such footage available for everyone.

Indeed, the primary objective of this thread  Seriously, though, this thread is [mostly] about a particular video and particular behavior and not US riders (or even NYC riders) in general. This is not a US vs Rest of the world dichotomy.

That's classic whataboutism. We are discussing a particular problem here. You are saying that people should focus on a different problem instead. That other problem might be legit and, perhaps, more consequential. Still, this does not change or counter the arguments of this thread one bit. 

Very well said. We have EUC and PEV idiot riders all over the world. Stupidity, unfortunatelyis massively common everywhere and natural to the worst human behavior, no matter what country, race, religion, soccer club, sexual preferences (I had to put this one 😝😝😝), etc