KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[eddiemoy]

Here is an update from Jason on our order...

• Production Schedule: King Song plan to complete our order before the end of the month, shipping takes about 4 weeks. 
• Color: The final color will be the carbon fiber panels, with black matte on top & changeable sides—for the present this will just be the black, but dark-gray is a possibility later on  
• Motor: a custom 2200W motor with a new PWM algorithm to try to make it as silent as the quietest Gotways  
• Pedals: 24 cm long, 1cm shorter than the XL, still large, with a magnet installed underneath to keep them upright, easier to open/close. 
• USB port: USB output: 1 x QC 3.0 fast charge + 1 USB port support music plug and play   
• Light: 5W headlight, one of the brightest available  
• Seat: not yet confirmed, but on the drawing board. If produced, will be sold as an optional extra for under $100

I like the custom 2200W motor.  

[stephen]

I think we're are all getting excited with more and more news coming out . Can't wait to see how the motor performs and how quite 😊😊

So the next demo one will be the latest production one?

Oooh and the brake lights in the vents look cool

[Mike Sacristan]

1 hour ago, Lutalo said:

I don't get the issue with the whine; but, I accept that it bothers some people. There must be some sort of research available related to variations in human reactions to sound frequencies; be interesting to see the findings in a study like that. 

 

21 minutes ago, Nils said:

Agreed, and I would love to see some nice graphs of the human hearing capabilities with regards to frequencies and age, etc. I've now tried to do some research, but unfortunately just ended up spending time reading irrelevant  pages on human hearing instead.. 

Anyway, back-tracking, and that notwithstanding, I'm somewhat baffled by the issue being so the contentious here in the forum (in general, not replying to you here @Lutalo as your comment leads me to believe we're on the same page). In general I'd say that human hearing is not the same, which makes arguments somewhat pointless as people are not really talking about the same thing. The discussion seems to end up with people who are not registering this at all or who only notice it to a certain degree debating with people who find it it really grating or merely some degree of irritating. The actual sound is what it is, but people's ability to hear it and thus react to it varies greatly.

Hearing gets worse with age and particularly for men. The "higher" frequencies are affected the most.
Expect not to hear 17khz over the age of 20. This is also known as the mosquito sound which can be used as a deterrent towards youngsters.

This link is a bit simplistic but a good start: https://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-being/stories/most-people-over-18-cant-hear-these-sounds

There is also something called misophonia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia

Misophonia means that sound goes here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_system

In other words it causes a fight or flight response. Select Sound Sensitivity Syndrome even called the four "S's". If there is a sound that shouldn't be there it will cause this response. Usually it will be rage. Repetition will cause a trigger and amplify the response to the sound.

Things that make me lose my shit:

• My cat purring (then it's my wife's cat)
• My wife eating chips (crisps for all you english)
• Children yelling
• Babies crying
• People talking loudly
• Neighbours talking or playing music (even if it's low)
• Employees at work talking

It's mostly about sounds that don't belong to a given scenario. Especially when i'm trying to focus or relax. Much worse when I am experiencing high stress.

Watch this clip. Look at the guy's face. He's dying lol.

 

[eddiemoy]

3 minutes ago, stephen said:

I think we're are all getting excited with more and more news coming out . Can't wait to see how the motor performs and how quite 😊😊

So the next demo one will be the latest production one?

Oooh and the brake lights in the vents look cool

seems like the quietness is something they are working on.  But i think it is the latest motor.

they call it preproduction wheel what we are getting in demo.  

[stephen]

2 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

they call it preproduction wheel what we are getting in demo.  

Aaah that's what i meant to put😊

Can't wait for the reviews, looking forward to it 😊

[Yunicycle]

 

Color: The final color will be the carbon fiber panels, with black matte on top & changeable sides—for the present this will just be the black, but dark-gray is a possibility later on

 

I kinda liked the look of the DEMO color combination better than the Carbon look that we are getting.

 

 

[Unventor]

Do hope they decide to go ahead with a seat. That would mean I am more likely to enjoy longer cruises, as I would be able to rest me a king knees a bit. 

I imagine that could also add extra range since a sitting person should generate less drag than standing tall. 

But I guess you seated riders can pitch in if I am right or wrong in my assumption.

I also like the idea to provide different colour side pads.. In time. It makes production easy right now, but could add choice and personality down the line. 

One thing I do like about GW, is the different colours of Monsters, personally I like the matt/metallic red look. But I guess a paint job could fix that too. 

[Kens]

14 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Do hope they decide to go ahead with a seat. That would mean I am more likely to enjoy longer cruises, as I would be able to rest me a king knees a bit. 

I imagine that could also add extra range since a sitting person should generate less drag than standing tall. 

But I guess you seated riders can pitch in if I am right or wrong in my assumption.

I also like the idea to provide different colour side pads.. In time. It makes production easy right now, but could add choice and personality down the line. 

One thing I do like about GW, is the different colours of Monsters, personally I like the matt/metallic red look. But I guess a paint job could fix that too. 

GIVE US SEAT! GIVE US SEATS!! SEATED RIDERS MATTER!!! 

But really tho I don't see why they could not make the seat as long the frame can support some weight

More choice is better. 

[eddiemoy]

22 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Do hope they decide to go ahead with a seat. That would mean I am more likely to enjoy longer cruises, as I would be able to rest me a king knees a bit. 

I imagine that could also add extra range since a sitting person should generate less drag than standing tall. 

But I guess you seated riders can pitch in if I am right or wrong in my assumption.

I also like the idea to provide different colour side pads.. In time. It makes production easy right now, but could add choice and personality down the line. 

One thing I do like about GW, is the different colours of Monsters, personally I like the matt/metallic red look. But I guess a paint job could fix that too. 

if you rid seated, there is less drag and you can go faster with less effort.

[Garrie Lim]

9 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Looks like we are going to get to try out the 16X this weekend!  Woohoo!  Demo time!

That means it will probably hit the shores of Singapore soon as well. I’ll prob make a short vid of it as well

[mrelwood]

 

13 hours ago, Nils said:

I was very happy to read they're apparently attempting do something about this starting from the K16X and hope they're successful. The video @stephen posted suggests otherwise but I'm holding out hope that's an earlier version of the wheel (video is freshly uploaded though, and she appears to work for KS..).

The final version photos didn’t seem to have the side LED stripes go all the way up, on the video they do. And as replied just a few posts above, they are still tuning the firmware for the new motor, so the final version hasn’t yet been built.

 

Hearing and frequencies in general are something I have learned about related to my studies, as well as personal interest. But I’ll try to keep this short...-ish.

10 hours ago, Lutalo said:

There must be some sort of research available related to variations in human reactions to sound frequencies;

Fletcher-Munson curve (= loudness curve)  is the averaged hearing sensitivity towards different frequencies, image below. Hearing is most sensitive at around 4KHz, and I have a personal irritation peak at exactly 3.5KHz. (Which is why I have yet to hear in-ear earphones or IEMs that sound decent.) The whine on the 16S is most prominent at around 6KHz, which doesn’t usually degrade very much until old age. But I recall the whine has components at around 15KHz as well, which is the old TV whine. It is indeed lost from most of our ears already, but young people and especially animals hear it well.

 

Quote

The actual sound is what it is, but people's ability to hear it and thus react to it varies greatly.

Exactly. We talk about hearing with our ears, but it’s the brains that actually process the data, and categorize to belonging to what we are focused at, otherwise worth noting, irrelevant, alarming etc. People with ADD, ADHD, and many neurological, stress, or pain related illnesses, (and just people in general to some extent may) have a decreased ability to do this processing, which is why one’s ”oh, I didn’t even notice” is other one’s ”I can’t hear anything else!”. And since we process and categorize everything we hear based on past experiences (amongst others), absolutely any sound can be soothing to one, yet horrendous or alarming to other.

We’ve surely all met people who when concentrating on something, are able to block other sounds out completely. Perhaps every 10-year old kid’s dad have had to learn the skill, and utilize when reading or watching the news...

8 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

While the image above is informative, one must understand that it only shows the degradation related to age. Meaning, while the reference line is a flat line across frequencies, our hearing certainly is not, and never was. Enter guys Fletcher and Munson and the loudness curves:

If we listen to music at a very low volume, we don’t hear the bass frequencies at all well. Turn the volume up, and there they are! The above graph shows us that. The loud sound of a trumpet is emphasized by it being busy at the frequencies we hear the best.  Ambulace siren is tuned to be at the sensitive area as well, so that we would hear it even through a well-isolating car.

 

Quote

Misophonia means that sound goes here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_system

In other words it causes a fight or flight response. Select Sound Sensitivity Syndrome even called the four "S's". If there is a sound that shouldn't be there it will cause this response. Usually it will be rage. Repetition will cause a trigger and amplify the response to the sound.

People who don’t understand the mechanism usually think that the person is ”losing his skit” over nothing, but the reaction is involuntary in the same way that a sudden bright light is blinding. It’s not up to us. And the limbic system misbehaving due to sounds is indeed a part of many other illnesses and conditions as well.

Quote

Things that make me lose my shit:

• My cat purring (then it's my wife's cat)
• My wife eating chips (crisps for all you english)
• Children yelling
• Babies crying
• People talking loudly
• Neighbours talking or playing music (even if it's low)
• Employees at work talking

It's mostly about sounds that don't belong to a given scenario. Especially when i'm trying to focus or relax. Much worse when I am experiencing high stress.

Exactly! You as well seem to have a heightened sensitivity, either to sounds, or perhaps your sensotory system in general. I would get physically exhausted in 5 minutes in a busy shopping mall if I wasn’t wearing earplugs.

Quote

Watch this clip. Look at the guy's face. He's dying lol.

Oh man, the thought of watching someone else even go through that... I’m not sure I want to watch.

Edited June 13, 2019 by mrelwood

[edwin_rm]

@Mike Sacristan It seems to me that you need to buy yourself a “LectroFan”. I have one and can vouch for it. It works! 

My findings: Pure unfiltered white noise setting is annoying, but Pink noise setting is great for blocking aural distractions, I like it and use it. Brown Noise setting is great for sleeping, very soothing. Many other settings available. 

Anyways, I don’t wanna derail this thread...

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

9 hours ago, tessa25 said:

Regarding noise level. With my Solowheel Glide 3 on mountain bike trails I can hear the birds and the wind rustling the grass when I'm not struggling to stay alive. Hearing a high pitched whine would be annoying. Also I once had to hear a very loud tone for several months before a surgical fix. I have since gained a big appreciation for silence.

Totally agree too

 

9 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Totally agree. I am a big fan of silence.

I once had tinnitus from the explosion of a mole trap with gas cartridges that went off in my hand. I am overjoyed that he has gone away sometime and only a hypersensitivity to high tones has remained.

My Buell X1 Millennium has a Vance & Hines Exhaust and without that exhaust, I wouldn't want to drive that bike no more. This means, that I don't necessarily like it silent, but I also don't want to do myself a mobile tinnitus. 

If I knew exactly that kingsong doesn't manage to turn off this noise, the decision 16 X or nikola would definitely be easier. 

[Mike Sacristan]

1 hour ago, edwin_rm said:

@Mike Sacristan It seems to me that you need to buy yourself a “LectroFan”. I have one and can vouch for it. It works! 

My findings: Pure unfiltered white noise setting is annoying, but Pink noise setting is great for blocking aural distractions, I like it and use it. Brown Noise setting is great for sleeping, very soothing. Many other settings available. 

Anyways, I don’t wanna derail this thread...

Now we're talking! The wheel has a speaker after all. Playing some pink or brown noise through it might work.

[Scatcat]

12 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Here's a funny thing about whine on my MSX. I can't hear any whine. My wife can hear a high pitched frequency which is quite loud.
She is a few years younger than me and has much better hearing when it comes to the high frequencies.
I've noticed that dogs tend to react to my MSX as well.
I can hardly hear above 15000hz. Once I was listening to high frequencies on my HD800 headphones. They are open back. I raised the volume quite high but still couldn't hear the 16000hz frequency I was playing. All of a sudden my wife comes storming out of the shower asking me what the hell i'm doing and why I am listening to these horrible squealing sounds. 

Oh I hear the high pitch whine alright, and I turn 53 this fall. I'd say it's a harmonic with peaks around 12kHz and 18kHz or somewhere around there. But it's not very strong compared to most other wheels I've been around, and it goes away if you manage to balance the MSX perfectly while still - or almost entirely at least.

Funny thing is I have ear damage on my right ear, but the dip is strongest between 4-8kHz and it doesn't affect the highest frequencies much. That is what happens if a 14 year old boy throws a fire cracker on you and it explodes close enough to the ear to create burns inside it.

[Garrie Lim]

 

Ready to be shipped out?

[stephen]

9 minutes ago, Garrie Lim said:

 

Ready to be shipped out?

It looks a proper beast in black i absolutely love it . Where can i get one shipped from 😊😊 

You got any more pictures to tease us with 😊

Edited June 13, 2019 by stephen

[Garrie Lim]

2 minutes ago, stephen said:

It looks a proper beast in black i absolutely love it . Where can i get one shipped from 😊😊 

You got any more pictures to tease us with 😊

I was teased by this as well.... I only saw this photo. 

[stephen]

9 minutes ago, Garrie Lim said:

I was teased by this as well.... I only saw this photo. 

Changable side panels should be good if you want to make some custom ones for different rides

[Garrie Lim]

 

24.9kg

[mrelwood]

 

12 minutes ago, Garrie Lim said:

24.9kg

16” wheel that weighs 1.4kg more than the MSX despite the same battery size. I don’t get it.

[stephen]

13 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

16” wheel that weighs 1.4kg more than the MSX despite the same battery size. I don’t get it.

How much will the bigger motor weigh? , i do like the heavy wheel it stays planted more 

The handle looks chunky ,it might be robust alltogether and a lot of internal stuff going on🤔 i can't wait for more info teardown etc

[Rywokast]

53 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

16” wheel that weighs 1.4kg more than the MSX despite the same battery size. I don’t get it.

yes thats as much more than the stated weight on the spec sheet O.o it has to be the new motor..

[iMaster]

31 minutes ago, stephen said:

How much will the bigger motor weigh? , i do like the heavy wheel it stays planted more 

The handle looks chunky ,it might be robust alltogether and a lot of internal stuff going on🤔 i can't wait for more info teardown etc

im also waiting for the complete teardown video for more details of the wheel,

i just got few photos that copy from ru euc forum

[stephen]

Thanks for the photos looks like solid plastic in places so I'll feel better when it's bouncing down the hill 😂 it looks a mess at this stage but solid  ,,, nothing screwed down etc,, be nice to see it all wired up with batteries in ,,,,Oooh and on my doorstep 😊😊

Thanks