My Z10 Triumphs, Tribulations, and Failures

[RoberAce]

 

[meepmeepmayer]

@Vikas Here's the history of the ACM variants. It's complicated.

If you're wondering, the "s" was a suffix for the 1300Wh 84V variant of Gotway's ACM and msuper V3 (e.g. "msuper V3s"), and the "s+" for the 1600Wh one (e.g. "ACM s+"). At least sometimes, people would use it inconsistently.

Also, there were some revisions/improvements during the 84V ACM phase. But as you're getting the latest ACM2 anyways, that matters only to used wheel buyers.

[Marty Backe]

 

[Sergey]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

 

Thanx for the video. If it's possible, pls test the wheal in rain or wet conditions.

It's interesting how good the sealing (hermetic tightening) is made.

[Marty Backe]

11 minutes ago, Sergey said:

Thanx for the video. If it's possible, pls test the wheal in rain or wet conditions.

It's interesting how good the sealing (hermetic tightening) is made.

Thanks. Unfortunately it doesn't rain where I live 

[Stan Onymous]

5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Thanks. Unfortunately it doesn't rain where I live 

It just rained today while on my way back from an errand. Lots of puddles and curb streams to explore Marty! 

[novazeus]

3 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

It just rained today while on my way back from an errand. Lots of puddles and curb streams to explore Marty! 

if they haven’t outlawed them in kalifornia yet, u could ride thru sprinklers?

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

  Yeah yeah sprinklers, Marty!

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Stan Onymous said:

It just rained today while on my way back from an errand. Lots of puddles and curb streams to explore Marty! 

My it rains where you live, but nothing here 

To be honest, even if it did rain I don't think I would test my wheels in the rain. Everything that I've seen indicates that they are water resistant at best.

[Marty Backe]

Overheat Symptoms

Today I used @eddiemoy's technique (endless pendulums)  to overheat the Z10 to confirm a couple of things.

The Z10 overheats at 80-degrees Celsius, which is what I surmised when it overheated in the mountains. But at the time I wasn't monitoring the temperature real-time so I didn't have an accurate value.

When it overheats it tilts-back.

At 75-degrees the ring lights start rapidly flashing blue. If the soundboard in my wheel was working, maybe it would be beeping to?

The flashing blue LED's is great. Now, if I'm pushing the wheel hard I can just glance down at the LEDs and if they are flashing, get off the wheel and rest about. I'll use this technique next time I'm in the mountains.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Marty Backe

[The Fat Unicyclist]

5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

To be honest, even if it did rain I don't think I would test my wheels in the rain. Everything that I've seen indicates that they are water resistant at best.

Give the Z10 to @Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" for one of his "river fording" tests!

[Marty Backe]

Motor Sounds

I think this is the quietest wheel being made. Nothing is apparent when idling, and when in motion all you hear is the sound of the fat tire on the ground. It's a cool effect.

You can hear a tiny buzzing (not really a whine) from the motor if you ride adjacent to a wall, hearing the reflected sound.

The motor is not without sound at all times though. When under stress, such as climbing a steep incline, accelerating hard from a standstill, breaking hard, etc., you hear clanking sounds from the motor. Almost sounds like skipping gears, or loose gears.

I've never heard/felt this in any of my modern Gotway wheels, but I've experienced similar (but less pronounced) effects in my KS14S. This must be associated with the lack of low-end torque that I experienced in the mountains. If the production units are truly 1/3rd more powerful, then I assume this will be heard much less often.

I don't know if other people would be able to hear these sounds, but you, standing on the wheel certainly can. It is a little disconcerting, but I've experienced no consequences.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

    Not that I’m suggesting opening it up, but It would be interesting to take a look see inside the motor itself to see what the coil set up looks like and find out whether there is any coil dope present.  Maybe the motor covers are thick enough to make the wheel pretty silent?  

My Tesla used to be whisper quiet, but it now makes the odd ratcheting sort of sound upon braking at slow speeds.  Maybe some of the copper has stretched or loosened a little allowing some magnetic vibrations to occur?

[Marty Backe]

9 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

    Not that I’m suggesting opening it up, but It would be interesting to take a look see inside the motor itself to see what the coil set up looks like and find out whether there is any coil dope present.  Maybe the motor covers are thick enough to make the wheel pretty silent?  

My Tesla used to be whisper quiet, but it now makes the odd ratcheting sort of sound upon braking at slow speeds.  Maybe some of the copper has stretched or loosened a little allowing some magnetic vibrations to occur?

It's interesting that the wheels do make more sounds as they age.

[Mark Lee]

28 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

It's interesting that the wheels do make more sounds as they age.

This is concerning to me since from his posts I don't think Hunka has all that many miles on his Tesla.  Is this due to the mileage, just age, quality issue or because Hunka is a speed demon?

[US69]

57 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

    Not that I’m suggesting opening it up, but It would be interesting to take a look see inside the motor itself to see what the coil set up looks like and find out whether there is any coil dope present.  Maybe the motor covers are thick enough to make the wheel pretty silent?  

My Tesla used to be whisper quiet, but it now makes the odd ratcheting sort of sound upon braking at slow speeds.  Maybe some of the copper has stretched or loosened a little allowing some magnetic vibrations to occur?

i have seen reports, where over time the motherboard of the tesla gots a bit loose and is responsible for this sounds.

open it up and put some rubber between the screws to stop vibrating of the board....guess this will cure your problems!

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I think these motors typically can never be 100% silent.  Usually electric motors run at a steady RPM so you might hear only a slight hum.  When they are electrically driven to slow down there must be a lot of force trying to counteract the forward momentum.  With a car we have physical brakes that grip onto calipers.  With these wheels it’s all magnetic energy slowing you down.

Maybe ratcheting isn’t the best description of the sound.  It’s more like a vibration where it sounds like the wheel’s shell is rattling slightly.  It’s only when I’m moving at a crawl, and both my generic and Ninebot wheels exhibited similar sounds so I think it’s characteristic of these electric wheels.  Don’t you guys get slight, brief rattling sort of sounds when you crawl to a stop?  I actually rely on it sometimes to alert pedestrians ahead of me that I’m approaching.  It’s of short duration, and there are  no other ill effects to the wheel.  Tessie’s sleek as butter at 715 km! 

There are many articles online describing cogging torque sounds and fixed magnetic or stator vibrations.  I’m just curious what makes Tesla’s and Z10’s so quiet as compared to some other wheels.  Did they really tuned their PWM frequencies (doubtful), or has there been some subtle motor design change like tighter coil windings fixed with epoxy?

Edited July 19, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Arbolest]

29 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

There are many articles online describing cogging torque sounds and fixed magnetic or stator vibrations.  I’m just curious what makes Tesla’s and Z10’s so quiet as compared to some other wheels.  Did they really tuned their PWM frequencies (doubtful), or has their been some subtle motor design change like tighter coil windings fixed with epoxy?

I've watched every video of every wheel I could find on this forum, and tons that weren't on here as well, and I've always wondered about the noise I hear other wheels making. Based on my own experience with my Ninebot One E+ and my new Teslarized MSuper V3S+,  I'm leaning towards their amazing silence being some special sauce that the programmers and/or engineers at Ninebot and Gotway have cooked up independently and not told anyone else about. Every other wheel I've heard while it's running aside from various Ninebots and the Gotways with the new Tesla motor all have a very distinct, very LOUD voice to them, and it never seems to go away, even while stationary. Now that's not to say that the Ninebots and the new Gotways don't have their own voices as well (my old E+ is a virtuoso in its own right, and at full speed the MSuper sounds like some kind of demented-but-awesome flying saucer), but rather that they only really make their presence known under particular circumstances, rather than constantly belting it out.

In any case, I agree that it is most likely some intrinsic characteristic of the motors or simply a better-tuned PWM frequency, but no matter what it is.. I like it... ? 

 (if only because my new MSuper is quiet enough that I can sneak up on my girlfriend while she's out walking... Makes me feel like a raptor or something xD)

[The Fat Unicyclist]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

It's interesting that the wheels do make more sounds as they age.

Yeah, but so do you (and me)… Every time you stand up, your knees complain... And when you drop the soap in the shower, your back lets you know about it (unless you are in prison, but that is a different story).   

The technical name is, "Aging Eunicyclist Syndrome." And while some of us are young enough to be considered "in temporary remission," your body would probably be screaming for attention about now...   

Edited July 19, 2018 by The Fat Unicyclist

[RoberAce]

 

[RoberAce]

very hard to turn

[Ch.Eng.62]

2 minutes ago, RoberAce said:

very hard to turn

At any speed, or only at high speed? 

[RoberAce]

Just now, Ch.Eng.62 said:

At any speed, or only at high speed? 

High Speed, a lot of force is required

[Ch.Eng.62]

Thanks, I ask because I am waiting mine beginning of August 

[RoberAce]

Just now, Ch.Eng.62 said:

Thanks, I ask because I am waiting mine beginning of August 

this is great! 

I told this about turn not in negative way, is only a characteristic of the wheel that it could result adrenalinic and get a lot of addictive satisfaction