My Z10 Triumphs, Tribulations, and Failures

[maltocs]

14 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Not enough time to do all requests. Hopefully what I do will help along with the other testers of this wheel.

There's a chance that @maltocs (200-pounds) will join me this coming Saturday for the 4600-ft climb test. He will ride it half-way.

Michael Vu rode it last weekend, although not extensively.

 

33 minutes ago, US69 said:

When i had a wish free i would ask you for carrying a 15kg backpack when doing further testings on the mountains….as i would be interested to know how it reacts to a bit heavier guy!!!

Unfortunatly i think Marty doesn't represent the Kind of "a bit more heavy american/european"....That would really interest me....how the Wheel works with a 85-90kg guy!

Especially as we have seen that this was or might be a prob with the v10f! Who knows...perhaps you have a more heavy Wheeler with you on your next test rounds and let him try?

?

 

10

@Marty Backe Okay, I'm in! Saturday morning, let's scale the 4600ft moderately steep hill with the Z10 carrying my 200-205lb rider weight halfway up and see how it does.  

[Mrd777]

I'd be more interested in acquiring this wheel if it was geared with more torque and lower speed rather then the opposite. It seems it was designed for the woods and off road, Im surprised Ninebot didn't make this a preference.

[novazeus]

i’d love to see what the Z10 can handle at slow speed, like how big a curb it can climb over without assist.

my little L8F kick escooter supposedly goes 18mph but with me on it i’d have to be on smooth pavement with a tailwind. i can start it up, stand on it, hit the juice and it will just look at me until i give it a boost. that’s extremely low torque. 

so exploring slow speed maneuvering and low end torque going over stuff like limbs in grass, is a big deal for me.

[novazeus]

like this commercial but with big guys. and slower.

 

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, nte said:

Sorry Marty!!

You seemed pretty excited on that downhill, yellin' all sorts of stuff like "Yee Haw" and "I'm loving it" and " doesn't get much funner then this" on that downhill.

Just testing the Gotway Defender's loyalty ? at least you didn't buy a one wheel... jk duf

[houseofjob]

11 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

@houseofjob, I can see N30TC1813T0024, with multiple devices. But that's not the sound module. No Ninebot ....  I can't see any app settings to enable the Bluetooth sound.

You don't recall having to do anything special?

Did you test the functionality after you took the wheel apart and put it back together?

Not sure what's up there, have you checked on a different phone as well? Maybe an iOS device? Does this phone recognize your KS14 BT music network?

I was pretty obsessive-compulsive putting the Z back together, but admittedly checked everything (wheel function, app) BUT the BT music, sorry.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, US69 said:

 i really had to step back from my opinions i had About the Z10 before it came to the test round!

Ninebot seam to have done a great work!!!

When @Marty Backe is having such a fun with it ….it must be a great Wheel!

Respects again for your great Video work and what you have done for the community, Marty!

When i had a wish free i would ask you for carrying a 15kg backpack when doing further testings on the mountains….as i would be interested to know how it reacts to a bit heavier guy!!!

Unfortunatly i think Marty doesn't represent the Kind of "a bit more heavy american/european"....That would really interest me....how the Wheel works with a 85-90kg guy!

Especially as we have seen that this was or might be a prob with the v10f! Who knows...perhaps you have a more heavy Wheeler with you on your next test rounds and let him try?

 

Other than that….the only "bad" that is left on this 9b Reviews so far is that it is Pretty expensive......for that whathour battery!

If that Price would be a bit lower…….perhaps also my next Wheel ?

 

I've had requests to carry extra weight, but you can imagine that doesn't appeal to me. It's one thing to have 30-pounds of extra fat spread around your body (in your case I'm sure it's muscle), but putting a bunch of weight in a backpack is uncomfortable and also can throw off your balance. It's just not the same thing as finding a 200-pound guy to do the testing.

So sorry, no extra strap-on weights for me 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Marty Backe

[Marty Backe]

59 minutes ago, maltocs said:

 

@Marty Backe Okay, I'm in! Saturday morning, let's scale the 4600ft moderately steep hill with the Z10 carrying my 200-205lb rider weight halfway up and see how it does.  

So, @US69, you will get your Big Guy testing. @maltocs will be riding the Z10 at least half way up the mountain.

Thanks Scot. Should be fun. Meet at the same spot and be ready to roll at 8am.

[Marty Backe]

15 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Not sure what's up there, have you checked on a different phone as well? Maybe an iOS device? Does this phone recognize your KS14 BT music network?

I was pretty obsessive-compulsive putting the Z back together, but admittedly checked everything (wheel function, app) BUT the BT music, sorry.

Multiple Android phones, iPad Pro, nothing works. They see other devices fine. So I think the Bluetooth is dead. Could be a premature failure or something happened during the tear-down. Who knows.

[houseofjob]

4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Multiple Android phones, iPad Pro, nothing works. They see other devices fine. So I think the Bluetooth is dead. Could be a premature failure or something happened during the tear-down. Who knows.

Damn.

I'm trying to remember now exactly when I tested the music (pre or post 0.4.4 FW update) to think if it actually worked post FW update.... really can't remember now though. I literally only connected to it for music once.

Edited July 17, 2018 by houseofjob

[Stan Onymous]

22 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I've had requests to carry extra weight, but you can imagine that doesn't appeal to me. It's one thing to have 30-pounds of extra fat spread around your body (in your case I'm sure it's muscle), but putting a bunch of weight in a backpack is uncomfortable and also can throw off your balance. It's just not the same thing as finding a 200-pound guy to do the testing.

So sorry, no extra strap-on weights for me 

I found @maltocs to be a very good North American substitute for the weight vest I bought for just this purpose. Plus, those vests are black and make carrying that weight a much sweatier ordeal than it needs to be. I think I lose about 5 lbs in water weight just riding around with the thing.

it is well balanced though, but not as good as Maltocs.

[US69]

17 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

So, @US69, you will get your Big Guy testing. @maltocs will be riding the Z10 at least half way up the mountain.

Thanks Scot. Should be fun. Meet at the same spot and be ready to roll at 8am.

While my „wish“ with the backpack was more or less a joke - as i know thats pretty hard to do- i am very happy that Maltocs comes with you! That’s GREAT!

 

Keep up the great work... and most important: Have fun with the wheel!!!

 

 

[Marty Backe]

Range Test

Just got back from my formal range test. Temperatures were in the low-70's (had to leave the house at 6:30am to avoid the heat of the day). I rode a typical route that I've done for all my other range tests.  A combination of lots of smooth paved trail riding, mild hills, grass riding, dirt trails, sandy trails. A bunch of stuff which to me feels like an all around fun outing on a wheel. Much of the paved riding would be 18 to 20mph. My max recorded speed was 23-mph.

My riding weight is 175-pounds.

Total ride time was 3 hours 12 minutes covering 38.6-miles. The last ~2 miles was painfully slow. I was able to do pretty much whatever I wanted for 35-miles. Then I started feeling impacted by the speed reductions, and at 36-miles the reductions became annoying.

In my mind, before doing this test, I assumed that this would be a 35-mile wheel, as my Tesla is (which has similar battery capacity). Considering how damn heavy this wheel is and the large & wide tire, this is an impressive range.

Except for my really long rides, I feel that I can take the Z10 out for whatever I want to do and have a good time.

I didn't attempt any super fast speeds early on, but the first time I really pushed the wheel hard, the battery was at ~40%. I was able to ride at 23-mph before experiencing tilt-back. The speed limiting tilt-back is mild and not alarming in any way ?

At 30% battery my max allowed speed was 19-mph. At 18% battery I was limited to 17-mph, which still felt like a decent speed.

Somewhere around 36-miles the drop off in performance was rather dramatic. I limped home at ~3-mph, fighting tilt-back. I did make it home though. The Z10 was telling me that I still had 3-miles remaining. Right 

The wheel was apparently beeping at me near continuously at the end and tilt-back felt like a rocking boat. Fortunately (it's always embarrassing as you pass people and your wheel is incessantly beeping) the sound system on this wheel is not functioning, so all I could hear was a faint chirping sound.

So given the battery size and the robustness of this wheel, it performs beautifully in terms of range. I'm completely satisfied.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Marty Backe

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

it would be interesting to see if the Z10 was the clear winner in a slow race.

Based on what Marty shared on his experience, I’d say no. Compared to 16S, Msuper X excels in slowly crawling over roots, it really just rolls over like they werent there. Torque from zero is from the next world. It could be one of the top low speed pasture rollers. Although, burdened with a few ”Doh” issues a lá Gotway...

[The Fat Unicyclist]

54 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

So, @US69, you will get your Big Guy testing. @maltocs will be riding the Z10 at least half way up the mountain.

Thanks Scot. Should be fun. Meet at the same spot and be ready to roll at 8am.

So is it too much to ask @maltocs to load up to 250 lb, to really test the wheel with a heavy rider?

Or will I need to get my own Z10 to test?

[Marty Backe]

Impressions After 3-Days & 90-Miles

 

I love this wheel 

Focusing on the negatives first, the wheel clearly is lacking in low-speed torque (I don't know if there's such a thing as high-speed torque). This only manifests itself when you are climbing a steep incline, slowly. In the vast majority of my time riding this wheel I have never felt the wheel to be lacking in torque, power, speed, etc. So yes, I will not be grabbing this wheel when I anticipate doing some steep climbing. Most of the real steep climbing that I do is during testing or when I feel like experimenting when out and about. So in my opinion the lack of low-speed torque is a niche issue. But it's there for sure.

Once I settled on ~35-psi for the tire pressure, the wheel has performed just as I would have hoped, It has superb traction that matches any other wheel I have. The ride is not too hard - feels like my other wheels (I like a firmer ride). Tracking also matches my other wheels. It purrs when encountering sand pockets.

I recently turned off brake assist and I feel like the traction going down steep inclines is better. I will know more when I take it to the mountain proving grounds for round two.

This wheel is a blast to ride as I experienced a little of everything today in my 38-mile range test. I absolutely love the low-speed handing. Considering the massive tire on this wheel, the Z10 feels closer to a 16-inch wheel. It feels closer to my ACM than the MSuper. Doing tight 360's and backward spins on this wheel is a real joy. Nothing like the more cumbersome MSuper and much more relaxing than the twitchy Tesla (or even ACM). It really does remind me most of the Mten3 in terms of low-speed handling.

I am really stoked that I'm going to own one of these in the next month or two (hopefully with a working sound system).

Again, except for the torque issues that occur in niche conditions, the Z10 feels like a very high performance wheel, but one made in Germany instead of China (I hope that analogy translates well).

Edited July 17, 2018 by Marty Backe

[Mrd777]

Hey Marty, if you have the time take it to the beach and just do a sand ride. It must be great in soft sand

[novazeus]

any low speed turf testng yet?

[houseofjob]

58 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I recently turned off brake assist and I feel like the traction going down steep inclines is better. I will know more when I take it to the mountain proving grounds for round two.

Check the brake assist setting every time you re-turn on the Z10.

There's a bug in that final beta 0.4.4 FW where re-powering on the Z will reset back to the default, Brake Assist = On.  Super annoying, and hopefully fixed on the proper production units by now.

Edited July 17, 2018 by houseofjob

[Marty Backe]

21 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Check the brake assist setting every time you re-turn on the Z10.

There's a bug in that final beta 0.4.4 FW where re-powering on the Z will reset back to the default, Brake Assist = On.  Super annoying, and hopefully fixed on the proper production units by now.

Thanks for that. I did think I had turned it off before. I think it resets the ring light choice too (I had turned them off last, but now they are on again).

[Stanor]

I have my theory about your lack of torque in the hills, and not having this problem on your usual walks. I think it's related to temperature management. when you climb a hill, you raise the temperature of the wheel. Since all the electronics are in a confined environment without ventilation, the wheel must probably restrict the energy flow according to the degree of temperature. And if you insist, the wheel cuts the current.. It would have needed a monitoring of the wheel to understand its management of energy.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Stanor

[Lukasz]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Again, except for the torque issues that occur in niche conditions,

Please consider that You ride pre-release unit with non-final mainboard.... this means that final production version may have better performance ( even with low speed torque )  ? 

so even more "German made"  (I know what You mean... we drive here a lot of BMW, Mercedes and Audi cars being just next to Germany, and now even producing some VW here..  I enjoy my A8 a lot...)

[Gustesta]

17 hours ago, Mark Lee said:

OK, for kicks I just weighed a few wheels that I have laying about. I'll let you convert to kilograms.

• Tesla: 41-1/2 pounds
• MSuper V3s+: 48 pounds
• Z10: 53-1/2 pounds

I imagine that the MSX will weigh a little more than my MSuper V3s+

Thanks @Marty Backe

•  

Please, what is your favorite wheel?  I currently own a Tesla also, and I love it!

[WARPed1701D]

6 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

Please consider that You ride pre-release unit with non-final mainboard.... this means that final production version may have better performance ( even with low speed torque )  ?

It might...but it might not. He can only review and discuss the wheel he has in his hands and that is what he's found thus far.

[Marty Backe]

6 minutes ago, Gustesta said:

Please, what is your favorite wheel?  I currently own a Tesla also, and I love it!

My favorite wheel is the ACM2