New Inmotion V10 / V10F

[nerdtothewise]

Patent trolling accusations against Shane Chen are patently unfair (yuk yuk yuk). He barely made anything off the entire hoverboard craze despite being identifiably the creator of the idea. If he gave birth to the idea he deserves to get paid. Full stop. 

And since I have stopped just lurking this thread I feel I ought to mention that I am 100% on board with as much safety as we can get in a wheel. I will happily take a 15mph wheel that has no history or occurrence of failure over a 30mph one that might fail 0.5% of the time over the life of the device. My face is too pretty to skip of the pavement, thankyouverymuch. 

I am planning to buy a V10F and potentially a Z10 as well. 

[houseofjob]

@brjohnso Yup, if you search the US Patent library, you don't need to convince anyone on filing, there are literally hundreds I believe on EUC/gyroscopic tech.

It's defending those patents that's the tough part.

A small business cannot compete with billion-dollar company backing and legal teams, hence why I believe neither KS nor Gotway exist on US soil or are bothering to gain US patents, settling for 3rd party distributors as their vessel into the US market.

[houseofjob]

5 minutes ago, nerdtothewise said:

I will happily take a 15mph wheel that has no history or occurrence of failure over a 30mph one that might fail 0.5% of the time over the life of the device.

That already exists, and it's called the Gotway MCM2 & MCM3, they've been around for years and have reputations for being rock solid, so I've heard in this community.

But no one's getting hyped over a 4+ year old model wheel.

Edited March 15, 2018 by houseofjob

[brjohnso]

7 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

A small business cannot compete with billion-dollar company backing and legal teams, hence why I believe neither KS nor Gotway exist on US soil or are bothering to gain US patents, settling for 3rd party distributors as their vessel into the US market.

Being based outside the US won't save you if the patent holder takes an ITC action to block importation of the product. True, it can be hard for a small company to enforce its patents, but that doesn't mean that the patents can't be enforced by someone else. If the small company's patents are actually good enforceable patents, what usually happens is the multi-billion dollar company just buys the smaller one to get their technology. The smaller company gets absorbed, and the founders of the smaller company become multi-millionaires. Not necessarily a bad thing....

[houseofjob]

5 minutes ago, brjohnso said:

If the small company's patents are actually good enforceable patents, what usually happens is the multi-billion dollar company just buys the smaller one to get their technology. The smaller company gets absorbed, and the founders of the smaller company become multi-millionaires. Not necessarily a bad thing....

Yup, sounds pretty much like how Ninebot, with XiaoMi backing, purchased Segway US to fight and counter Inventist's lawsuit against them.

[steve454]

29 minutes ago, nerdtothewise said:

If he gave birth to the idea he deserves to get paid.

He is smart for sure.

 

[Jason McNeil]

7 hours ago, Bobwheel said:

KS & Gotway just sneak into this market without any licensing, and it's possible to block them either in China or US. InMotion works with Solowheel and pays Shane tons of money for this. Ninebot is fighting with Solowheel along with Segway in US, and the lawsuit has lasted almost 2 years, and they are hard to be innocent out

I believe most people in the community respect manufacturers based on their ability to prove innovation through what they achieve in their products. Based on this premise, hardly any one would consider a truly innovative Company like Inmotion as a knock-off, simply because of a question of some highly disputed/contentious piece of paper, defining a very narrow piece of the totality of an advanced technology containing thousands of patents & technologies.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Jason McNeil

[Justina]

Hi guys!

We've just posted some new materials of the V10/V10F, enjoy: https://www.electricunicycles.eu/more_details_about_new_inmotion_v10_and_v10f-c__340

I haven't been here for a while, it's time for me to keep up and read all that stuff  

[Rehab1]

@Justina Welcome back! Thanks for the updates! I hope you don’t mind me transporting your web site photos over to this topic for further discussion. We have all been waiting patiently for more information on the V10/V10F especially new descriptive  photographs.

I really like the design of the new pedals. Wider and longer. The introduction of the aluminum alloy magnalium for added strength is promising. It will be interesting to see how much more gripping power the rubber pads have over the traditional abrasive friction tape. I don’t want to spike these pedals.

I like the idea of ‘soft distinguishable pads’ . It would be nice to feel how ergonomically pleasing these new cushioned leg supports actually are.

 I love the design of ‘scorpion stinger’ trolley handle and how it folds and collapses into the shell’s body.

 So glad the dedicated ‘motor disengagement’ button under the handle remains incorporated in the V10/V10F.

Inmotion definately did their engineering homework. I’m so looking forward to the release!

Edited March 17, 2018 by Rehab1

[Jason McNeil]

1 hour ago, Rehab1 said:

I hope you don’t mind me transporting your web site photos over to this topic for further discussion. We have all been waiting patiently for more information on the V10/V10F especially new descriptive  photographs.

I was given instructions to not post these pictures until 4pm PST, perhaps the timezone wasn't specified for our European counterparts... 

Based on AliExpress source for the battery size, they've managed to fit double the number cells 80 vs. 40 in what looks to be the same body dimensions as the V8, this is really quite the achievement, exceeding what was hoped for two years ago when the V8 was first unveiled. 

In 2017, the most popular Wheel sold around the World was the V8; with these very substantial improvements to their 16" Wheel, it's reasonable to expect that demand for this model will continue unabated.

On 7/25/2016 at 8:43 AM, Jason McNeil said:

If I were responsible for the design, I would have advocated using the same handle as the V5F & use the internal space for 60 instead of 40 cells.

 

[steve454]

1 hour ago, Rehab1 said:

@Justina Welcome back! Thanks for the updates! I hope you don’t mind me transporting your web site photos over to this topic for further discussion. We have all been waiting patiently for more information on the V10/V10F especially new descriptive  photographs.

I really like the design of the new pedals. Wider and longer. The introduction of the aluminum alloy magnalium for added strength is promising. It will be interesting to see how much more gripping power the rubber pads have over the traditional abrasive friction tape. I don’t want to spike these pedals.

I like the idea of ‘soft distinguishable pads’ . It would be nice to feel how ergonomically pleasing these new cushioned leg supports actually are.

 I love the design of ‘scorpion stinger’ trolley handle and how it folds and collapses into the shell’s body.

 So glad the dedicated ‘motor disengagement’ button under the handle remains incorporated in the V10/V10F.

Inmotion definately did their engineering homework. I’m so looking forward to the release!

Those pedals look good, supposed to be more comfortable, wonder if the rubber is soft enough to act like cushions or shock absorbers. 

The external handle leaves more room in the case for batteries.  

The new side pads look much more comfortable, but my legs don't touch the shell much while riding, pads aren't really necessary for just plain riding.

 

Edited March 17, 2018 by steve454

[Stan Onymous]

Okay, so @Jason McNeil deserves a lot of credit for inspiring the V5f handle to allow for more batteries to be crammed into the V10. He has harped about this design flaw in the V8 for some time now, and now he has his grease.  we all do too! Kudos to you sir! Kudos to InMotion for apparently incorporating a lot of our suggestions into this new wheel. Really cant wait for more information.

[em1barns]

@Jason McNeil, any more information on the « wider » tyre? Is it confirmed to be 16 inches / 2.5 wide ? Thx

 

 

[Stan Onymous]

On March 15, 2018 at 4:22 PM, nerdtothewise said:

 

Patent trolling accusations against Shane Chen are patently unfair (yuk yuk yuk). He barely made anything off the entire hoverboard craze despite being identifiably the

 

I believe the patent trolling for the EUC is very fair in regards to Shane. The real creator of the self balancing unicycle made a deal with Shane, who then signed a contract stating that, then went around that agreement to file his own using the originators technology. He was also not the originator of the hoverboard, having stolen that idea from the same person who is now working on an even more brillant vehicle that I have been sworn to secrecy over.

shane is a great businessman, but a lousy inventor. He shouldnt have been so greedy. If he had decided to combine with the real inventor he would not be in such a victim posture moving forward, and probably would be honored as a real innovator. 

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

Based on AliExpress source for the battery size, they've managed to fit double the number cells 80 vs. 40 in what looks to be the same body dimensions as the V8, this is really quite the achievement, exceeding what was hoped for two years ago when the V8 was first unveiled. 

Guessing the wider shell allotment for a 2.5” wide tire helped squeeze those extra cells into the V10, along with InMotion ‘s preference to build higher, not wider (wish all EUC co’s adopter this wheel-building philosophy)

[nerdtothewise]

2 hours ago, Stan Onymous said:

I believe the patent trolling for the EUC is very fair in regards to Shane. The real creator of the self balancing unicycle made a deal with Shane, who then signed a contract stating that, then went around that agreement to file his own using the originators technology. He was also not the originator of the hoverboard, having stolen that idea from the same person who is now working on an even more brillant vehicle that I have been sworn to secrecy over.

shane is a great businessman, but a lousy inventor. He shouldnt have been so greedy. If he had decided to combine with the real inventor he would not be in such a victim posture moving forward, and probably would be honored as a real innovator. 

So you are implying that there is a secret inventor "actually" responsible for the wheel and the hoverboard? What? 

Here is a real news source marking him as the likely party responsible for hoverboard: https://www.npr.org/2015/12/03/458361229/the-hoverboard-mystery-where-did-the-holidays-hot-product-come-from

 

[Stan Onymous]

11 minutes ago, nerdtothewise said:

So you are implying that there is a secret inventor "actually" responsible for the wheel and the hoverboard? What? 

Here is a real news source marking him as the likely party responsible for hoverboard: https://www.npr.org/2015/12/03/458361229/the-hoverboard-mystery-where-did-the-holidays-hot-product-come-from

 

This guy and I know more than NPR ever will care to

[nerdtothewise]

Not really sure what to make of that photo. Oh well. 

All this other nonsense aside, I am really excited for the changes they've made on the V10. That combined with a wider tire is exactly what I was looking for in a new city-friendly wheel. 

[Keith]

On 15/03/2018 at 11:22 PM, nerdtothewise said:

Patent trolling accusations against Shane Chen are patently unfair (yuk yuk yuk). He barely made anything off the entire hoverboard craze despite being identifiably the creator of the idea. If he gave birth to the idea he deserves to get paid. Full stop. 

Funny it’s always someone from Seattle! It is not in the slightest unfair. The first self balancing Unicycles appeared in 2005 and were being sold by 2008. However, Chen filed his patent in 2010 - but to stop it hijacking this thread any further see the following:

 

 

Edited March 17, 2018 by Keith

[Bob Yan]

On 3/16/2018 at 6:57 AM, brjohnso said:

Patent litigation is indeed very expensive. It can cost a few million USD to litigate a patent from start to finish. However, I think that provides a good motivation for filing some of your own patents, even if they are just improvements and features added to existing designs. For example, I'm sure there have been advances in safety algorithms, application design, battery management systems, and control systems over the years. Patenting those improvements, even those improvements that you have considered but not yet implemented, can be relatively affordable. Owning some patents of your own can provide some leverage to settle future patent disputes without the need to resort to full blown litigation, or pay excessive licensing fees.

 

Yes, it's true, we can use them to license to each other if a conflict happens. 

[Bob Yan]

5 hours ago, Keith said:

Funny it’s always someone from Seattle! It is not in the slightest unfair. The first self balancing Unicycles appeared in 2005 and were being sold by 2008. However, Chen filed his patent in 2010 - but to stop it hijacking this thread any further see the following:

 

 

There is always disadvantage for small business in term of the patent filing. We constantly have new ideas but not sure which will have the real business potential, and just hesitate to move forward to file the patent because a simple patent can cost more than $20k if you want it to be well protected. We have the experience that we just got so excited that sometime we thought we got an idea that can change the world and then spent a lot for the patent, but it ended up with nothing. So we became to be very cautious when we need to make a decision, but the another problem pop up: Sometimes we just couldn't see it in front of us even a valuable idea came up and you lost the great opportunity. 

So it's not always fair if we treat the patent holder to be the real inventor,   and I know it's a bit cruel, but at least I don't have a better solution for this. Lots of times we can't wait, and we need to move forward quickly enough, so we need to figure out the most efficient way forward, so accepting the patent and trying to settle with the holder seem to be the easiest way, instead of arguing the history and rumors. 

[RayRay]

Google is great! (Finding lots of neat info using Google Patents...)

Try: Motorised transport vehicle for pedestrians (or just search under unicycles).

Something from the 70's...

A Simeray design from 2006-ish...(*)

 

Must read more myself, but thought others might find interesting. (If not already familiar with... I wasn't.)

 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by RayRay
"The sprag wheel of this invention is designed to imitate Thor's wheel in the B.C. comic strip" (Torleumke,1981)

[RayRay]

I need to find a better link as a starting point for my (Google Patents) investigation of euc history; (maybe 'powered unicycle')...

Some cool/familiar images I found just poking around...

Here's a 2002-ish Kiwano-like design. (Neat!)

1920's Pole Monocycle (no motor)

1960's era: Single-Wheeled 'Toys' 

 

80's: "What were they thinking/(smoking)..."

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by RayRay
shared more interesting pics

[steve454]

15 hours ago, RayRay said:

I need to find a better link as a starting point for my (Google Patents) investigation of euc history; (maybe 'powered unicycle')...

Some cool/familiar images I found just poking around...

Here's a 2002-ish Kiwano-like design. (Neat!)

1920's Pole Monocycle (no motor)

1960's era: Single-Wheeled 'Toys' 

 

80's: "What were they thinking/(smoking)..."

 

Wow, it's all been thought of already, 50 years ago.  But nothing was ever on the market.  So all those patents were useless.

I like the modern way better, make something now and settle with any patent holder later.

Just searching through all the millions of patents to make sure an idea is not infringing would stop all progress.

[Smoother]

"Occupant-Propelled Plaything Having A Single Wheel"  (1967 Tadao Kawada) Not exactly catchy, but pretty much sums it up for me.  Try yelling that as a reply to "hey, what is that thing?"

I might just call it a "Tadao Kawada" for short.