New Inmotion V10 / V10F

[Marty Backe]

16 hours ago, steve454 said:

What's a pulse glider?  Pretty cool name.  

Google it. There was a ton of discussion about it in this Forum a few months back.

[Marty Backe]

22 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

No one mentioned national parks or the back country of Alaska, so using such extremes to add weight to your argument is silly.  If what you said is true, you must ride in extremely populated locations full of people who aren't into being respectful of others and sharing space in a considerate way.  I'm thankful I am not surrounded by such people where I ride.  Apparently, literally everywhere you ride there are a large number of people "blasting" their own music out of their own speakers.  And on top of that, you "blast" your own music out of your unicycle as you ride past them all.  That has got to get tiresome.  Or perhaps there's some exaggeration going on.  Maybe it's an American thing.  As I said, I do enjoy music when out riding, so I have tried it, but as I have respect for others, I use airpods so that my music is not inflicted on everyone around me who may be out hoping for a quiet walk along the river path or through the park.  I don't know why the thought of personal music listening is so hard a concept to consider.  You also get much better sound quality and can listen at low levels while being aware of everything around you.  Meanwhile strangers get to enjoy their peaceful walks and dogs aren't as stressed as you go by.  It's a win for everyone.  Everyone has different tastes and trust me, most people you ride past have no interest in your choice of music and no interest in being subjected to it by a speeding unicycle.  You should try earphones some time.  They'll be big some day.

Peace. The reality is that riding with speakers is a nice experience when done in moderation. I'm considerate and lower the volume or turn it off when I'm in populated areas. Otherwise, people will hear me from behind and I'll wiz by and will be gone from their environment within 15-seconds.

I do wear buds 80% of the time, but there are times when the speaker option is nice.

California has more people than all of Canada. So yeah, the density here might be more than what you're used to.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Marty Backe

[houseofjob]

44 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

I guess my point is I, me personally, view Inmotion as one of, if not the best wheel manufacturer, in regards to quality and reliability and so I would pay extra for a wheel of lower specs to buy their brand. 

I don't disagree with any of this, but this is in a vacuum. 

 

I personally don't believe (as a consumer) on letting any company, no matter how well they do a product, rest on their laurels when the competition offers more and more compelling wheels at compelling price points. 

Otherwise, we get the old Shane Chen-led patent trolling, price-gouging SoloWheel.

 

FWIW IMHO, InMotion has not really innovated anything except for small detailed things like the handle disengage feature and their great trolleys,

.... and playing devil's advocate, this new VX is really just a spec bump upgrade on the V8, when they really should've released a wheel with these specs in the place of the V8 launch, as this is the type of wheel the competition was innovating at the time.

 

44 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

The fact Inmotion doesn't release new firmwares (but has the ability to) make me think they get it right first time. That suggests a lot of development thought, effort, and polishing pre release and that is a quality I appreciate.

This is a mixed bag.

I can remember when I bought my previous V5F+ that I was partly sold on the promise that they would rollout a FW update to bump up the max speed to ~17mph (as, at the time, the V5F+ spec was already done plenty by the competition), but that never came to fruition.

 

42 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree. I'm not anticipating that this new wheel will be any real competitor (but maybe I'll be surprised) to something like the Telsa. And for a few hundred dollars more you can get a 1600wh ACM or MSuper.

But not all wheels have to be high performance demons. Sometimes it's nice to do lower-speed cruising, etc. Many trails that I ride are at a much slower pace.

Hell, just about all reasonable quality wheels are a blast to ride. It's the variety which interests me more nowadays.

I'm not trying to say there isn't a place and utilization for this VXF at it's specs.

But I don't believe it should hang at the same price point as the Tesla/Z10/KS18L if the numbers aren't competitive, as I really don't think the quality gap is that different from a Ninebot, for example.

 

But FWIW, I'm still intrigued because I loved my InMotion experience just as much as @WARPed1701D does his.

But with the low spec numbers and slight over-pricing, it's only the brand experience holding my interest right now.

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by houseofjob

[Esash]

11 hours ago, houseofjob said:

errrrrr.... why only 1500W nominal for the VXF when the Z10 is 1800W and KS18L 2000W? 

 

The VXF would appear to be a slightly more powerful, slightly faster, slightly fatter tire, slightly bigger battery, slightly more expensive ($150-200 more?) version of the KS16S. 

The KS16S has a legit claim to being the best all around jack-of-all-trades wheel on the market, when you factor in safety and reliability and trusted reputation.

But the KS16S's (highly debatable) claim to best all around wheel gets more dubious as time goes by and all these new wheels come out.

The Tesla appears to have swung and missed at best all around wheel, with durability concerns. The ACM 2 has a real case for best all around wheel, but we'll see how it's repuation for durability plays out over the next few months.

I suspect the Z10 will be remembered as too bulky of a wheel at 4" wide, and more of an off-road specialist wheel.

The KS18L looks great, and is much more compact than the KS18S, but ultimately that big 18" wheel might not have the same inherent fun factor and agility of a 16" wheel.

16" wheel seems to be the sweet spot, and the InMotion VXF has a chance to be remembered as the sweet spot within that sweet spot for 2018-2020.

 

 

 

[Esash]

From the French forum:

Inmotion V10 - Perfection [Preorder - Delivery April-May 2018]

 

 

 

 

	Inmotion V10	Inmotion V10F
Battery capacity	640 Wh	920 Wh
Machine weight	18 kg	20 kg
Max speed	40 km / h
Max weight	120 kg
Diameter	16 inches
Guarantee	2 years

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=https://www.espritroue.fr/topic/4473-gotway-mcm-5/&prev=search

[Paddylaz]

Is there anyone out there who is genuinely interested in hitting 40kph on a Rockwheel?

Why not reduce your chances of death and instead go base-jumping with a supermarket carrier bag as your parachute.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Paddylaz

[kasenutty]

Those French specs sure don't sound all that exciting. 

[Adel]

What's the hurry to pre-order ? It's never a good idea to buy first batch of new model EUC from ANY company.

Save your money and let others do the beta testing of all these new wheels and find all their problems/weaknesses, then once all problems are ironed out, select the best new gen. wheel and buy from the follow-on fixed batches.

 

 

[WaveCut]

...and buy some warm coat and enjoy rainy autumn!

[houseofjob]

9 minutes ago, Adel said:

What's the hurry to pre-order ? It's never a good idea to buy first batch of new model EUC from ANY company.

The hurry is I have no self-control and a raging case of early adopter syndrome!!!! 

[Adel]

Just now, houseofjob said:

The hurry is I have no self-control and a raging case of early adopter syndrome!!!! 

Mee too, but I'm trying very hard to fight it 

[Marty Backe]

10 minutes ago, Adel said:

What's the hurry to pre-order ? It's never a good idea to buy first batch of new model EUC from ANY company.

Save your money and let others do the beta testing of all these new wheels and find all their problems/weaknesses, then once all problems are ironed out, select the best new gen. wheel and buy from the follow-on fixed batches.

 

 

What's the fun in that 

[Adel]

8 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

What's the fun in that 

You're right Marty, where do I send my deposit again 

[Esash]

"tubeless "

[WaveCut]

Mod's please fix topic title to V10 (V10F)

Edited March 15, 2018 by WaveCut

[Esash]

Frenchie:

Quote

 

When I see the proportions of the tire, it seems to me wide for a 16 ", it is perhaps not the 2.125" usual, but rather a 2.5 ".

As a result, it can be considered the equivalent of a 17 ", which would be a great idea.When you see what gives a ks16 with a 2.5" tire, it inspires respect.

Just a hypothesis.

 

 

[kasenutty]

Just now, WaveCut said:

Mod's please fix topic title to V10 (V10F)

 

Aren't they they same thing, one just has slightly bigger battery? 

[WaveCut]

52 minutes ago, kasenutty said:

 

Aren't they they same thing, one just has slightly bigger battery? 

The concern is that V8 Fast is wrong and misleading

[steve454]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Google it. There was a ton of discussion about it in this Forum a few months back.

I was joking with @kasenutty and forgot to put the wink emoji. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by steve454

[brjohnso]

3 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Otherwise, we get the old Shane Chen-led patent trolling, price-gouging SoloWheel.

Why doesn't King Song, Gotway, Segway, or any other maker just get their own patents? Then this problem can be solved with cross licensing. (I'm a patent attorney).

[houseofjob]

2 minutes ago, brjohnso said:

Why doesn't King Song, Gotway, Segway, or any other maker just get their own patents? Then this problem can be solved with cross licensing. (I'm a patent attorney).

Segway definitely files their own patents.

King Song and Gotway don't exist outside of Shenzhen China, so not sure how that works over there. I'm assuming total foreigners can't file patents in the US sans proxy (might be wrong, dunno).

[brjohnso]

Just now, houseofjob said:

King Song and Gotway don't exist outside of Shenzhen China, so not sure how that works over there. I'm assuming total foreigners can't file patents in the US sans proxy (might be wrong, dunno).

They absolutely can and should file in the U.S. as well as China. Patents are effective where they are filed, so if you want enforcement here, you need to file here. For important inventions, companies often file in more than one country. For example, a company might file based on where the product is built, and also where the product will be used. U.S. companies can file over there too.

 

[houseofjob]

2 minutes ago, brjohnso said:

They absolutely can and should file in the U.S. as well as China. Patents are effective where they are filed, so if you want enforcement here, you need to file here. For important inventions, companies often file in more than one country. For example, a company might file based on where the product is built, and also where the product will be used. U.S. companies can file over there too.

Interesting.

But everyone knows KS & Gotway wheels are essentially at their foundations copies of the original EUC patented, whether it be SoloWheel or the other millions of filed patents in the US Patent library previous to that.

The real contention I believe is whether Inventist SoloWheel is infringing on the basic gyroscopic tech of Segway, which is now owned by Ninebot and indirectly the XiaoMi empire, or is their 1-wheeled gyroscopic unicycle in fact it's own legitimate patent.

It's been in the news before that Inventist v. Ninebot/Segway has been dragging on in the courts a bit, ala Apple v. Samsung.

 

But in the end, isn't US patent law broken and up for grabs to the company with the most $$$, best legal team, and best lobbyists?

[Bob Yan]

48 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Interesting.

But everyone knows KS & Gotway wheels are essentially at their foundations copies of the original EUC patented, whether it be SoloWheel or the other millions of filed patents in the US Patent library previous to that.

The real contention I believe is whether Inventist SoloWheel is infringing on the basic gyroscopic tech of Segway, which is now owned by Ninebot and indirectly the XiaoMi empire, or is their 1-wheeled gyroscopic unicycle in fact it's own legitimate patent.

It's been in the news before that Inventist v. Ninebot/Segway has been dragging on in the courts a bit, ala Apple v. Samsung.

 

But in the end, isn't US patent law broken and up for grabs to the company with the most $$$, best legal team, and best lobbyists?

Yes, foreigners can file patent in US, but the most valuable ideas related to unicycle have been occupied for long time, and the most important player are Segway and Solwoheel. 

KS & Gotway just sneak into this market without any licensing, and it's possible to block them either in China or US. InMotion works with Solowheel and pays Shane tons of money for this. Ninebot is fighting with Solowheel along with Segway in US, and the lawsuit has lasted almost 2 years, and they are hard to be innocent out. 

[brjohnso]

Patent litigation is indeed very expensive. It can cost a few million USD to litigate a patent from start to finish. However, I think that provides a good motivation for filing some of your own patents, even if they are just improvements and features added to existing designs. For example, I'm sure there have been advances in safety algorithms, application design, battery management systems, and control systems over the years. Patenting those improvements, even those improvements that you have considered but not yet implemented, can be relatively affordable. Owning some patents of your own can provide some leverage to settle future patent disputes without the need to resort to full blown litigation, or pay excessive licensing fees.