Esash

Well, I got a -20 degree F North Face bag, used twice by somebody in SoCal. Got it for less than $350. Basically older model of pic related. Also ordered the US military tent "Improved Combat Shelter". Only $85 so why not. I figure it will be a good winter tent with the thick fabrics, strong poles, and low ceiling for warmth. I could put my new poncho liner/woobie ($25) between the two tent covers for additional insulation. Or maybe my generic military wool blanket that is half polyester and made in India ($20). Between military surplus, AliExpress, and now this ebay North Face down sleeping bag score, I'm starting to really get all my bases covered as far as camping equipment for any combination of temperature and moisture/humidity. Sounds like those nice down sleeping bags still aren't good/great for damp weather or camping near a body of water above freezing weather. This new -20F bag is like less than 5 pounds, which is half the weight of that Modular Sleeping System, so that's a pretty massive weight savings. If I combine it with my MSS gortext bivvy cover, I could probably pretty much jump in a snowbank (with 1-2 sleeping pads) I'm going to try blizzard camping this winter for sure. Just might leave EUC at home and walk somewhere, IDK. Things I still need: -Lightweight insulated boots like you said. -Snowshoes -next winter maybe invest in a hot tent and camping stove like pic related

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't realize they go under the hammock so no compression. And I could always take a pad as well, or a crazy warm sleeping bag like I have my eye on anyway.

Thank you, and I look forward to hearing about your adventures! One of the park rangers says he winter camps in a hammock, but I'm nervous about it. "Underquilt" doesn't sound like a great R insulation rating when you're up in the air, but IDK. But if it's warm and it reduces pack size/weight, then that's a big plus. It's definitely cool how a hammock has the versatility to just lay in on the ground, like yesterday when I had to be stealthy in the woods. BLISS stands for Blend, Low Silhouette, Irregular Shape, Small, Secluded Location (military shelter site selection). Also, bug netting seems to have a really nice camouflage effect, at least when the netting is brown/green like my hammock. Netting is a bit of an irregular surface texture, compared to regular fabric. It's not a guille suit, but it's pretty non-obvious in a wooded setting, especially when low. I've never seen this cammo pattern bug netting, but obviously this takes the stealth factor to the next level

As far as that huge backpack, I ended up not taking it, because it's so bulky it's borderline dangerous with the wind or wind from big trucks passing you on the side of the secondary highway. Plus with no rigidity/frame, it's just not a real natural at carrying significant weight well. One thing I'm learning is that some of the light/cheap/cheaply made gear from AliExpress can have some real value, even if it breaks after a few uses. Ultra-light backpacking gear nerds will spend $300 on a backpack or other item and its primary allure is the light weight. Well some of this AliExpress stuff is really light too, but only 20 bucks. In ultra-light gear nerd terms, such gear would be worth the price if it lasts for a mere 1-4 outings. Like, I use this 20 dollar hammock-with-bug-net as a "tent" or bivvy cover. Lay it on the ground or lean-to floor and that's the ground map plus bug protection. And the thing only weighs like half a pound. So the zipper broke yesterday but I might just buy another one due to its light weight and versatility. And this is the backpack I took. Slightly shorter and significantly narrower than the 130 L clown show pack. Two of the chest buckles have broken but I still might just buy another one when I need it, because it's so darn light, cheap, comfortable, and the perfect size/width.

This morning at sunrise from the roadside. Dawn is even cooler than sunrise out in the boonies. I spent yesterday lying in the woods by this pond in the leaves. I was at a campground that is still open so I had to be stealthy and carry my wheel a bit off into the woods. That's a big benefit of the EX.N, 73 lbs and by far the lightest longer range wheel. I'd still love to get a non-suspension Commander though. Anyway the ground frosted by the other lake I was sleeping at, from 4 am to 5 am. I guess weather temperatures don't account for being right next to the water. It was supposed to be 45 degrees but the ground next to the lake was frosted like it had snowed pretty hard. So that was one lesson, it's colder right next to the water. Could have hurt my batteries probably if it wasn't merely borderline freezing. The other lesson from this trip was to always top off air in the tire before you leave on a max range trip, because I barely made it home, and tire was a bit flat. Maybe the cold temps flatten tire, so maybe bring a small tire pump on any near-freezing level overnight EUC trip. Good lessons to learn in this transitional weather, rather than learning them in legit winter weather with more severe consequences.

This thing came and I'm pretty impressed, especially for 25-30 bucks. Not great build quality for carrying heavy weight around, but pretty amazing for carrying lots and lots of light bulky items like winter camping gear. You could basically pack enough winter camping gear/clothes to last an entire winter, just not food. that illustrative photo of what you can pack in it doesn't even do it justice... But on an euc at high speed on a windy day you would probably die if riding on the side of a minor highway. Blown into the metal guard rail or right into traffic.

Glad you brought up food, and thanks for the rest of your comment as well. I think I'm going to order a box of snickers online. The raisins are healthy but not really worth their weight on my back for the calories they provide. And I've been paying 3 bucks per snicker bar on my trips.

Thanks a lot for the tips. I got the Army modular sleeping system yesterday and it's in great shape and cleaned. I got the boots too but have not tried riding an euc with them yet. I also have some waterproof shoe covers from aliexpress that were like 5 or 15 bucks or something. I might try riding with regular hiking shoes/boots, and those waterproof covers over them. See if they are smaller than the mickey mouse boots, which they probably are. I have an air mattress with an R5.0 insulation rating, but on aliexpress they have them with R8.8 insulation value. I think I've heard R5.4 or something is the minimum you want for winter camping or something. One issue I'm going to run into is trying to get the best gear possible over weeks while the temperatures are dropping every day. And it's true that you can start spending $400-$800 on a top of the line down sleeping bag just to save 1-3 pounds over the modular sleeping system. I'm pretty excited to get back out there while the dawn/night temperatures are still 40-ish F degrees. Dealing with a freezing EUC overnight and potentially diminished range for getting home is more than I want to deal with while I try out the new gear. Right now though I can fit the entire MSS, the air mattress, AND a 1-2 man tent in my backpack, and it's still not heavy. This set up would be overkill, of course, but definitely more comfortable and safer in case the tent leaks or something. Next I'll think about a second, smaller back pack to fill with anything I might need, and think about whether to strap that to my chest or just hold it in my hands and possibly rest it on top of the euc sometimes. One way to pack lighter on a camping trip is to just skip the whole food thing and plan on buying food each day at a nearby store while camping. Only problem with that is the need to camp closer to a store from where I would prefer. Thanks a whole lot for the tips, including the toothpaste freezing one. I didn't know that and wouldn't have thought of it. edit: I sweat a lot in my sleep so I'm guessing that the concept of multiple sleeping layers like in the MSS is going to an important concept for me. The -20 degree down mummy bag looks awesome, but it's possible that several thinner layers will be better for my personal case, even if I upgrade the various layers of the MSS eventually. And those cheap rubber boot covers might fit into that concept of multiple thin layers being better than the big fat mickey mouse boots, I don't know. It would also give me an extra pair of footwear around the camp site

Thank you. It's a beautiful time of year before we Segway to winter

Very interesting. I just ordered one of these so I have a bigger option than my 90 liter backpack, but this one will probably be a big sail. I was worried about it blowing me around, but sounds like I should also be worried about mileage. I ride pretty slow though, 15-20 mph. One reason I ordered the bigger bag is because I also ordered this US Army Modular Sleep System, which is 3 sleeping bags and very bulky and 10 pounds + heavy. But the temperature rating is very very good, and I figure that at the very least I'll want to use the outer gortex bivvy all the time, even if I upgrade inner sleeping bag(s) to something lighter and maybe down feathers. I also bought a pair of those military "mickey mouse" boots, with like 3 layers of fleece above and also below the foot. Thost should be really really comfortable for winter riding on EUC.

thanks for the tips. I started leaving the charger at home once I dialed in the distance to camp ground and back. I have about 8-10 miles of range to spare with my EX.N on this 51 mile round trip. It will be interesting to see how much the cold affects my range. Both riding in the cold and having the wheel outdoors in cold weather. Sub-freezing is probably a big no-no for an EUC, right? And yeah my light downhill mountain bike type full face helmet sure makes the trip less uncomfortable, even though I need to upgrade to something heavier but still lighter than my motorcycle helmet.

Well I went euc camping a total of 3 times now, and got the backpack weight dialed in. Also I think my back strengthened up and got adapted to heavy weight. I bought a bunch of cold weather camping gear so we'll see how that goes. Big worry is EUC battery power loss when it's cold overnight. I can combat this a little bit with some pocket warmers and maybe some kind of sleeping bag for my EUC, to trap the heat of the pocket warmer overnight. I should be able to extend the camping season at least 1-2 months on each end of summer at least. pretty sweet.

I'm not really talking about gays, as you know. Keep pretending meritocracy or lack thereof doesn't affect western innovation ... or lack thereof.

Also read this. There's Venezuelan moped gangs running around Manhattan and they'll grab your phone right out of your hand. Maybe even your Lynx. Half the NYC government leadership is getting arrested right now, and investigated and searched and subpoenaed, even the NYPD leadership, so the city's in a state of chaos right now and you're mostly on your own. Remember that a lot of nyc residents are far leftist ideologues, so they'll downplay any and all of this stuff because it doesn't fit the agenda. That goes for on this forum too. https://www.fox5ny.com/news/who-tren-de-aragua-violent-venezuelan-gang NYPD officials say that members of the gang have been crossing the border along with the larger influx of migrants. Police say that members of the gang have gone from crimes like shoplifting and stealing cell phones and jewelry to all-out shoot-outs in the streets. Deputy Inspector Nicholas Fiore of the NYPD's Crimes Against Persons Unit told FOX 5 NY that Tren de Aragua's savage, bloody crimes are similar to MS-13, the violent street gang responsible for dozens of murders throughout the NYC area. The crimes include one or two thieves on a moped yanking cell phones, jewelry and other valuables from pedestrians. Cell phones are a hot commodity in these robberies, as they have found ways to use smartphones to hack into victims' bank accounts. The phones are then shipped to Columbia and Venezuela. Most of the suspects arrested for these crimes don't admit to being gang-affiliated.

Just lots of slow traffic, and horns honking behind you if you drive too slow when it's time to MOVE. Leave the wheel in your trunk so nobody can see it in your car windows in the garage. If you end up finding the city to be too overwhelming on your senses, you could also turn north (right) when you get to the west side highway bike path. I think it goes for miles and miles and into new jersey and woodsy type nature stuff. But you should focus on exploring the city since you can find bike paths in the woods anywhere, and you might not have a good spot to charge your wheel. Riding in Central Park should be just fine and not too overwhelming on your senses like Times Square/Midtown might. A couple more tips: Make it a goal to not give a nickel to ANYBODY, and you'll be asked for money dozens of times. They'll have you sized up for a tourist no matter what you wear, because you'll be looking around a lot and probably walking slow as you look. They'll have the most sympathetic tear-jerking stories ready for you, knowing that your sympathy hasn't been dulled yet. And try not to buy any $10 soda pops or $15 hotdogs in Central Park, just on principle.