Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Whalesmash]

56 minutes ago, Eucner said:

Thanks. Still the suspension looks under-damped.

Coil shocks like the one in that vid usually have adjustable damping rate. Considering there's an oil chamber hanging off the back of the unit, I would bet the one in the video has it too, but I would also wager they didn't adjust it properly.

[fbhb]

11 minutes ago, Whalesmash said:

Considering there's an oil chamber hanging off the back of the unit, I would bet the one in the video has it too, but I would also wager they didn't adjust it properly.

Completely agree with this statement and would not be at all surprised that the damping and also the rebound rate are Not set up for any of the typically "lightweight" riders we are seeing in these prototype S20 videos!

But as mentioned, at least BOTH of these adjustments are available to dial in to the riders preference unlike the Begode Hero's "No Name" non-adjustable $10-$20 Air shock!

Edited December 13, 2021 by fbhb

[Eucner]

6 hours ago, Whalesmash said:

Coil shocks like the one in that vid usually have adjustable damping rate. Considering there's an oil chamber hanging off the back of the unit, I would bet the one in the video has it too, but I would also wager they didn't adjust it properly.

Yes, I can see 4 possible reasons for the under-damping:

1. They are testing how wheel behaves, if wrongly adjusted.

2. They don't know how to adjust it.

3. They don't care how wheel is adjusted.

4. Damping adjustment doesn't work.

I hope it is the alternative 1 and they are real professionals.

[MadVlad]

Looks pretty good to me, especially considering that you can upgrade the shock to something really nice if the factory setup does not work out. I come from the motorcycle world where a huge percentage of people ride with improperly tuned suspensions for the duration of their ownership of the motorcycle, sometimes you cant even tune it without aftermarket parts, and its usually not a problem unless you try to ride it really hard or its so off for your weight that its almost unridable.

[supercurio]

I've never had the chance to ride a suspension EUC in off-road situation and the suspension behavior looked pretty good to me in this slow-mo video.

What makes you all conclude that it is under-dampened @Eucner @Whalesmash @fbhb?

[Eucner]

4 hours ago, supercurio said:

I've never had the chance to ride a suspension EUC in off-road situation and the suspension behavior looked pretty good to me in this slow-mo video.

What makes you all conclude that it is under-dampened @Eucner @Whalesmash @fbhb?

In the video I quoted you can see drivers having difficulties to handle bouncing wheels. The wheel is still going up when it should be down and ready for the next step. With correctly adjusted suspension driving would have been much smoother.

[supercurio]

18 minutes ago, Eucner said:

In the video I quoted you can see drivers having difficulties to handle bouncing wheels. The wheel is still going up when it should be down and ready for the next step. With correctly adjusted suspension driving would have been much smoother.

I see it now! Thanks for the explanation

[mrelwood]

While at this point the competition is fierce and people expect for the suspension to work great out of the box, I would also consider that very few of the S18 suspensions actually work well either to this day, but it has still been better than nothing, for most. Which actually is what I believe most owners will end up comparing the S20 to anyway, a traditional hard-tail EUCs without suspension.

 Just thinking how the Sherman would handle those S20 test tracks makes me giggle a bit! Talk about under damped… 

That said, based on what we’ve seen, I’m not expecting the S20 either to have something like an actual MC class suspension. Besides, you need 1200psi for that, ask Gotway! 

[Tawpie]

20 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

very few of the S18 suspensions actually work well either to this day

mine works great! without being rebuilt.

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

mine works great! without being rebuilt.

Like I said, a few do indeed work well. Just out of curiosity, have you had the chance to try a newish V11, or an overhauled S18?

[Lukasz]

I am close to 6000 km on my custom build S18XL - suspension initially corrected (this was the first production batch wheel-so it had to be corrected), and till now it works. Even not-so-great suspension is MUCH safer than no suspension at all.

I can tell You that serious changes are coming in the suspension wheels for sure...   I can not tell much more than that but new solutions are coming...  serious work in progress now...

Edited December 15, 2021 by Lukasz

[Tawpie]

9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Just out of curiosity, have you had the chance to try a newish V11, or an overhauled S18?

Neither, much to my disappointment. Having to retune the V11 for my (lack of) weight means I don't ask to ride the increasingly rare V11 I see, and sort of the same with the S18.

What I do know about my not-overhauled S18 is that when the shock is empty of air, the suspension is totally loose when you pick the wheel up. Goes clonk. I do run my damper very 'fast' when it's aired up (5 clicks) because if I set it 15 clicks it's too slow and I can feel the tiny bits of air I get going over bumps (on the street). At full 30 clicks, lifting the wheel post compression, watching the wheel extend is like it's in a low motion movie. Damper definitely works!

Edited December 15, 2021 by Tawpie

[Unventor]

7 hours ago, Lukasz said:

I am close to 6000 km on my custom build S18XL - suspension initially corrected (this was the first production batch wheel-so it had to be corrected), and till now it works. Even not-so-great suspension is MUCH safer than no suspension at all.

I can tell You that serious changes are coming in the suspension wheels for sure...   I can not tell much more than that but new solutions are coming...  serious work in progress now...

If it comes from GW spin-off brands I couldn't bother to get interested. There is no way I am casting my consumer vote of money to their design philosophy. 

[Lukasz]

On 12/15/2021 at 9:36 PM, Unventor said:

If it comes from GW spin-off brands I couldn't bother to get interested. There is no way I am casting my consumer vote of money to their design philosophy. 

Suspension design is different than in GW  and also different than in KS.  We stay away from GW design philosophy as far as we can ;-) 

[MadVlad]

I cant read Mandarin but something tells me this was a big burn:

 

[enaon]

On 12/15/2021 at 12:43 PM, mrelwood said:

Like I said, a few do indeed work well. Just out of curiosity, have you had the chance to try a newish V11, or an overhauled S18?

Mine is excellent too, no frictions at all, first batch, no rebuild either( ok I did one or two, it had the spacers/bearing killers fitted), just shims to loose tension on the sliders. In general, the s18 has a superior suspension system to the V11 by design fundamentals, it has less weight on the wheel. 

mine is so smooth on the sliders, that anything less that 15 clicks is too fast. The s18 needs shims and a shock change if the brick was used because it will have internal leak, and has rigidity problems if the rider is heavy, but the suspension system is worth copying. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by enaon

[stephen]

 

[PourUC]

On 12/13/2021 at 9:15 AM, Eucner said:

Yes, I can see 4 possible reasons for the under-damping:

1. They are testing how wheel behaves, if wrongly adjusted.

2. They don't know how to adjust it.

3. They don't care how wheel is adjusted.

4. Damping adjustment doesn't work.

I hope it is the alternative 1 and they are real professionals.

To add another, they had it set for road riding. Generally softer suspension is set for comfort. They couldn't be bothered to mess with it when they went off road as they probably were not bottoming out, so they didn't care.

Or, they did try and find the ideal setting for when they were going up hill, which in general you want softer suspension to maximise torque to the ground (less bouncing as you climb over rocks uphill). Then they just didn't change it cause they cba.

Final idea, is you can let pressure out, but you can't magically let pressure in with the air suspension on the S18. The riders themselves used to S18 like suspension just had carried the same mentality in this moment. Like a freudian slip... ish. 

Based on the quality of these videos it seems these are very much the crew testing them and taking footage with their various phones, rather than intended promo. So a lot of it whilst looking like oversight could actually just be them not really giving a damn about showing the wheel optimally. It's just "Hey let me go down the stairs dude" then he does and someone else happens to be recording.

[Eucner]

1 hour ago, PourUC said:

To add another, they had it set for road riding. Generally softer suspension is set for comfort. They couldn't be bothered to mess with it when they went off road as they probably were not bottoming out, so they didn't care.

Or, they did try and find the ideal setting for when they were going up hill, which in general you want softer suspension to maximise torque to the ground (less bouncing as you climb over rocks uphill). Then they just didn't change it cause they cba.

Final idea, is you can let pressure out, but you can't magically let pressure in with the air suspension on the S18. The riders themselves used to S18 like suspension just had carried the same mentality in this moment. Like a freudian slip... ish. 

Based on the quality of these videos it seems these are very much the crew testing them and taking footage with their various phones, rather than intended promo. So a lot of it whilst looking like oversight could actually just be them not really giving a damn about showing the wheel optimally. It's just "Hey let me go down the stairs dude" then he does and someone else happens to be recording.

Good additions to the possibilities. They could have also wanted to really emphasize the fluent movement of suspension. It was not as sticky as S18 was.

[Grimm10]

This thread has been too quiet.  A new video has surfaced where riders are tackling a set of stairs.  It looks like they've firmed up the suspension to stop the excessive bouncing off the shock/spring. 👍

 

 

[supercurio]

1 minute ago, Grimm10 said:

This thread has been too quiet.  A new video has surfaced where riders are tackling a set of stairs.  It looks like they've firmed up the suspension to stop the excessive bouncing off the shock/spring. 👍

 

Agree! I was about to post the same. The suspension seems much better dialed in especially on the first rider.

[Rollin-on-1]

31 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Agree! I was about to post the same. The suspension seems much better dialed in especially on the first rider.

First vid I've seen in a while where the red "fairing" is in place in front of the pads too.  Could we be seeing an early production model? Or final pre-production prototype?

[fbhb]

45 minutes ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

First vid I've seen in a while where the red "fairing" is in place in front of the pads too.  Could we be seeing an early production model? Or final pre-production prototype?

The first rider is actually on a later S20 "prototype" than the one seen fitted with the red "fairing" in front of the pads. The one with the "fairing" has the narrow Silver rim, similar to the S18, whereas the first rider was on a later S20 version, with the "Final wider Black rim" fitted!

These videos are just shot on the guys cell phones and in this case mashed together into one video, but obviously they have Not All been shot at the same time.

We still need to be patient unfortunately, but that is All good with me as I prefer that King Song take enough time to prevent Any major issues with this release (barring the possibly small inevitable niggles, but definitely No showstoppers would be the ideal!)

Edited December 28, 2021 by fbhb

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, fbhb said:

We still need to be patient unfortunately, but that is All good with me as I prefer that King Song take enough time to prevent Any major issues with this release (barring the possibly small inevitable niggles, but definitely No showstoppers would be the ideal!)

I agree with you on this. We have seems many releases that have had problems and if this keeps up I think this is bad overall for all EUCs. 

But it a fierce competition and so crucial to meet riding season for a new model so I don't have high hope for this. 

This doesn't mean I wish we had problem free 1st batches. Having bought 3x 1st batch wheels I have a fair bit experience with this. 

How it will be for the S20 I have no idea. I do hope issues are ironed out before 1st customer delivery. 

[Codespanker]

4 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

First vid I've seen in a while where the red "fairing" is in place in front of the pads too.  Could we be seeing an early production model? Or final pre-production prototype?

On the e-riders podcast this week it was  stated that the “s20 eagle has left the nest and is in the way to e-riders” - not much more was said but it was clear they were going to get one very soon