King Song S18 Discussion

[yon]

thats what i have been tellin her.  No danger luv

[yon]

I am not looking forward to my first face plant,  inevitably Im  going to get one,  sooner the better as far as I am concerned. Straight out the box into the leather furniture will be a good place to start. 

[meepmeepmayer]

Moderator notice: Everyone please keep this mega topic on point (about the S18) and avoid unnecessary/unrelated stuff as well as things that can be put in their own topic. It's bad enough as it is. Thanks

[Elliott Reitz]

18 hours ago, the0r1st said:

also try reducing the pressure in the upper chamber of your shock, that helped my wobble.

I'm not a fan of pressure changes to address wobble.  Not in the shock, and not in the tire.  Wobbles are manageable by dampening them... mild carving, weight to one side... approach wobble speed to test technique until you "got it".

20 hours ago, dsd317 said:

Over the past 2 days of riding my S18, I’ve actually been able to experience this wobble.  For me, they tend to happen around 10-15+ mph...and varied a lot depending on my feet positions on the pedals.  I’m sure part of the wobbles come from my lack of experience...but I can’t help to think that the other part may be design as well.

At the moment, I have the pedals at their lowest setting, hoping that would reduce/eliminate the wobbles, but that didn’t work.  I’ve also lowered the tire pressure to as low as 20psi and as high as 45psi.  It did feel better at the lower pressures, so tire pressure is now at around 30-35 psi.

Will raising the foot pedals to their highest setting help reduce the wobbles?

My S18 wobbles happen at about 18 mph.  The stock tire was pretty bad.  The K262 was worse when I put it on until I deflated it and squashed it straight while the electric pump re-inflated it. 

17 hours ago, Flying W said:

+1 for light carving helping with wobbles, also catching it early before it gets out of hand is key. 

It can be hard, but do not tense up during a wobble, don't clamp down with your legs, don't get lower into a squat. 

Relax, stand taller and lightly carve. 

Make sure the tire is seated evenly too. And uneven tire had my trying all kinds of different things to avail. A properly seated tire and enough time on the wheel your riding (different wheels feel different) to be relaxed makes wobbles a thing of the past. 

No matter what hitting a bump and landing slightly crooked (like putting the front wheel of motorcycle down with the bars off center) is always going to be "interesting" but that's part of the fun of these devices.

Some wheels just like to wiggle a little. My mcm5 is always lively in the mid 20mph range. It is like riding a plated dirt bike on the freeway where the bars are always wiggling a little. Once used to it, and relaxed, it never progresses to a full blown wobble. 

For anyone just getting into this hobby, treat these wheels like a motorcycle. Gear up, don't press too far outside your own personal comfort zone and enjoy the ride!

The key to dealing with wobbles is dampening them. Weight to one side or the other... and on the S18 with Kuji pads be extra careful not to convert the side-side wobble to a steering wobble (those are yet more dangerous) by deep knee-bending.  

13 hours ago, Simply_Striking said:

How does this (Carving) work with riding in narrow bike lanes? Does this mean one would have to stay below the wobble speed? I only ask because in my area, cars are generally always trying to rack up points by hitting other road users. While I have a few bike lanes that are 4+ feet a majority of them are narrower.

You can still carve on a narrow lane... think of it more like riding with all your weight on 1 leg at a time.  If you can ride with 80% of your weight on one side you won't have any more wobbles, though it takes some practice to gain confidence in that.

PS:  Since we're still in the S18 discussion, here's my vid from riding a long-ass trail today.  To me the vid is boaring, though I have the impression lots of people like to watch our long rides as if they were riding themselves... thus I actually did upload this one. 

 

[NYC One Roll]

1 hour ago, Elliott Reitz said:

I'm not a fan of pressure changes to address wobble.  Not in the shock, and not in the tire.  Wobbles are manageable by dampening them... mild carving, weight to one side... approach wobble speed to test technique until you "got it".

My S18 wobbles happen at about 18 mph.  The stock tire was pretty bad.  The K262 was worse when I put it on until I deflated it and squashed it straight while the electric pump re-inflated it. 

The key to dealing with wobbles is dampening them. Weight to one side or the other... and on the S18 with Kuji pads be extra careful not to convert the side-side wobble to a steering wobble (those are yet more dangerous) by deep knee-bending.  

 

 

 

I can testify for the steering wobble. Outta control, and unmanageable.to regain balance from it. 😢

[Bridgeboy]

OK, so what does it mean when the shock gets caught up underneath the rear fender (not the cheap plastic fender, the fender that has the rear light on it which is above where the shock normally sits) and tops out into the bottom side of the fender?

I went out mountain trail and BMX bike course riding today and everything was fine for awhile until some grinding sound started and the top of the shock was stuck under the rear fender. I lifted up the S18 by the handle and shook it until the shock relaxed, then rode again and it was fine for awhile again but then got stuck under the fender again.

I gave up at that point and switched to my 18XL which I also brought with me (I didn't ride that on the trails, there are also smooth paved bike paths nearby too).

Does anybody know what this means? I haven't check the pressure in the chambers since this happened but I'm theorizing one of them lost pressure somehow? I did have about 240 PSI/ 80 PSI when I started (I'm 250 LBS).

Edited September 21, 2020 by Bridgeboy

[Elliott Reitz]

14 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

OK, so what does it mean when the shock gets caught up underneath the rear fender and bottoms out into the top of the fender?

I went out mountain trail and BMX bike course riding today and everything was fine for awhile until some grinding sound started and the top of the shock was stuck under the rear fender. I lifted up the S18 by the handle and shook it until the shock relaxed, then rode again and it was fine for awhile again but then got stuck under the fender again.

I gave up at that point and switched to my 18XL which I also brought with me (I didn't ride that on the trails, there are also smooth paved bike paths nearby too).

Does anybody know what this means? I haven't check the pressure in the chambers since this happened but I'm theorizing one of them lost pressure somehow? I did have about 240 PSI/ 80 PSI when I started (I'm 250 LBS).

Yea I noticed my fender had an interference with the shock before I cut/removed 80% of it to fit my K262 tire.  Definitely worth it!

So, the contact point was between the inner fender (one of the bolt eyes) and the shock.  It was so tight on the stock wheel and already hitting the fender that I was VERY relieved that my K262 actually fit without hitting the shock in the same place.  And per the water splashes in my most recent vids... I'm pleased to say that the shock keeps the water off my a##.  Good enough!

Edited September 21, 2020 by Elliott Reitz

[Bridgeboy]

5 minutes ago, Elliott Reitz said:

Yea I noticed my fender had an interference with the shock before I cut/removed 80% of it to fit my K262 tire.  Definitely worth it!

OK, I didn't mean the cheap plastic fender. I just edited my post.  I'm talking about the fender that has the rear light on it which is above where the shock normally sits.

When functioning normally, the shock kicks out from the rear fender/light and does not touch it. The problem I had is it got caught up inside the bottom of the rear fender and was stuck behind the rear light. It would have done some serous damage if I kept going. It's already scratched up a bit up in there from it.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Bridgeboy

[Elliott Reitz]

1 minute ago, Bridgeboy said:

OK, I didn't mean the cheap plastic fender. I just edited my post.  I'm talking about the fender that has the rear light on it which is above where the shock normally sits

Wow, if that's the case I wonder if something is broken.?

Like how is it possible with the geometry?  Can you get a pic? 

If its as you say my best guess is that one of the suspension bolts has come loose or broken.

In this vid, I remoeved the valves on the shock and tested the effect of the pedal blocks (don't bother removing them).  But key to your point is the travel with the shock open-air.

 

[dsd317]

52 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

OK, so what does it mean when the shock gets caught up underneath the rear fender (not the cheap plastic fender, the fender that has the rear light on it which is above where the shock normally sits) and tops out into the bottom side of the fender?

After letting all the air out of the positive chamber, and pushing down on the wheel to compress it, I noticed the blue lever on top of the shock (the one that has the plus/minus sign) scraped the area underneath the rear light.  So now there’s a line where it scraped.  I’ll take a pic of it tomorrow.

In your case, it does seem like your shock lost pressure.  I also noticed that with my shock.  I would add 150psi....ride it for some time...and found pressure dropped to less than 100psi.  I did this twice, thinking that I may of accidentally leaked pressure out while removing pump from shock.  Now im starting to think the shock is leaking pressure somehow.

[RockyTop]

On 9/17/2020 at 7:12 PM, Steef Klonoa said:

I can see what you guys were talking about with that cable rubbing. The casing is already coming off. I didn't even ride it yet. Anyone come up with a way to protect that from rubbing too much? @Jack King Song should we be hammering this cable into our device so it is flush with the frame?

How about this.  Motor Wire Protector KIT  It sticks out 0.5 mm more than the wire and comes with shims to hold the shell out an additional 3mm. The shim ( not seen) slides between the back battery and the shell. The shims can be glued in place or just sit there. during testing my shims were not glued and did not move.  They have a hook on top. 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by RockyTop
update

[dsd317]

@Bridgeboy Here is pic of scrape mark from blue lever on shock:

[Kommienezuspadt]

Unpopular opinion with many on this forum, I’m sure, but I roll my eyes at some of what I see on YouTube. I mean, I like competition in the EUC space but the Sherman getting close to 50mph is an immediate cringe for me. I see NYC riders splitting traffic at 38mph, or group rides of 30 EUC’s taking over entire lanes, and it seems inevitable to me we’re heading for regulation, registration and licensing, fines, etc.

I’m full aware this isn’t most EUC rider’s prerogative, though. I see legislation against us in the near future and I think it’s going to be a result of speed, safety and both of those concerns being ignored.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Kommienezuspadt

[null]

I get your point and dont agree (30 light vehicles taking the same space as a few cars sound good to me), but to quote meepmeepmayer just a few posts back: 

Moderator notice: Everyone please keep this mega topic on point (about the S18) and avoid unnecessary/unrelated stuff as well as things that can be put in their own topic. It's bad enough as it is. Thanks

Edited September 21, 2020 by null

[RockyTop]

The S18 appears to have corrected speed settings. I took a ride on my S18 yesterday. My wife was on her 18XL. I have both of our warning beeps at 27MPH. We were side by side and the XL started beeping. I sped up quite a bit before the S18 beeped. After stopping the max speed shown on the app for each wheel was under 28 (27.2 and 27.6)  yet the S18 was going maybe 4-5 MPH faster. Also at the end of the day the 18XL recorded 38 miles and the S18 recorded 33 miles. I would believe the opposite because I literally ride circles around her. I also take the long way while she takes the short way whenever possible. ( Doing so is getting more difficult tho. She is riding faster and I don’t have the MSX speed to catch back up.) 

Now I am wondering if the S18 31 mph is the same as the V11 34 mph? To be clear with the battery configuration I would feel safer on the V11 at top speed. 
 

Edited September 21, 2020 by RockyTop

[Bridgeboy]

6 hours ago, dsd317 said:

@Bridgeboy Here is pic of scrape mark from blue lever on shock:

I have similar damage after my incident yesterday. I'll check the pressure in my chambers when I get home for work  this evening.

[Simply_Striking]

Is it too early to start asking about batch 2 quality improvements? I want to put down payment in end of this month.

[Bridgeboy]

7 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

I have similar damage after my incident yesterday. I'll check the pressure in my chambers when I get home for work  this evening.

@dsd317 I took pictures of my damage, but this thread won't allow me to upload any more pictures. (EDIT: the forum let me paste the pictures into the body of the post, it just didn't let me attach them. The top picture below is yours, the bottom 2 out of 3 pictures are mine with the gouge shown. It's really far back there so it was hard to get on an iPhone 11 which barely fit in there). For me it's more of a gouge in one spot into the metal instead of a scratched line like yours. Also, it's way back further...actually further toward the front of the wheel, as in I took a pic at this same exact angle you did and the gouge did not show up because it's hidden behind the shock at this angle. The shock got stuck way back there looking from this angle...which is to say it was way toward the front of the wheel way up inside this fender cavity.

I can't reach the upper valve to check the pressure (the pump that came with mine does not have that 90° bend on it like yours in your picture), but I checked the lower chamber and it's at 125 PSI. I was almost positive I had it set to only 80 PSI before.

How do I go about getting to the upper chamber to check it?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Bridgeboy

[dsd317]

22 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

@dsd317 I took pictures of my damage, but this thread won't allow me to upload any more pictures. For me it's more of a gouge in one spot into the metal instead of a scratched line like yours. Also, it's way back further...actually further toward the front of the wheel, as in I took a pic at this same exact angle you did and the gouge did not show up because it's hidden behind the shock at this angle. The shock got stuck way back there looking from this angle...which is to say it was way toward the front of the wheel way up inside this fender cavity.

I can't reach the upper valve to check the pressure, but I checked the lower chamber and it's at 125 PSI. I was almost positive I had it set to only 80 PSI before.

How do I go about getting to the upper chamber to check it?

 

Your shock going further forward than mine is not good.  My shock position shown in photo is fully extended (or very close to it) and can’t go any further than that.  In order to go past that, something had to give, i.e., bend/broken linkage.  If you “bottomed-out” your shock/suspension and show damage/gouge marks towards the front (as viewed from my photo), then I’d check the motor wire bundle.  That’s the only thing that’s in that area that can get crushed.  Try to get some photos uploaded so we can get a better understanding of your situation.  You might have to upload you photos to google drive or somewhere where you could post a link to it.

As for checking upper chamber pressure, I use a 90 degree elbow to attach pump.  Valve can be seen in that same photo we’re referencing.

[Bridgeboy]

5 minutes ago, dsd317 said:

Your shock going further forward than mine is not good.  My shock position shown in photo is fully extended (or very close to it) and can’t go any further than that.  In order to go past that, something had to give, i.e., bend/broken linkage.  If you “bottomed-out” your shock/suspension and show damage/gouge marks towards the front (as viewed from my photo), then I’d check the motor wire bundle.  That’s the only thing that’s in that area that can get crushed.  Try to get some photos uploaded so we can get a better understanding of your situation.  You might have to upload you photos to google drive or somewhere where you could post a link to it.

As for checking upper chamber pressure, I use a 90 degree elbow to attach pump.  Valve can be seen in that same photo we’re referencing.

I edited my post probably while you were working on yours. Look at my edits with pictures.

Honestly nothing looks wrong with anything other than when this shock got stuck up under there on Sunday. Everything looks normal to me now. I just don't know what that upper chamber pressure is right now because I can't access it.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Bridgeboy

[FinRider]

4 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

can't reach the upper valve to check the pressure (the pump that came with mine does not have that 90° bend on it like yours in your picture), but I checked the lower chamber and it's at 125 PSI. I was almost positive I had it set to only 80 PSI before

There are two ways to inflate the suspension on this wheel.

1. The KingSong way, with the supplied block on the pedal hanger.

2. By using a 90 degree or more elbow on the upper valve.

 

Note that the psi values between the two methods can not be compared. In your case you probably inflated the shock with the supplied block. You set the lower chamber to 80 psi. If you check the pressure again without the block, then the reading will indeed be higher.

the opposite is true for the positive chamber. If you inflate it to 200 psi with the block, it probably reads in the 150 range without the block. These are simple laws of physics when adding pressure to a chamber and then checking the pressure when the chambers size has changed.

Both methods are valid to use, as long as you don’t try to compare the values from one method to the other. Using an elbow makes it more convenient and faster to make adjustments on the fly. The chamber values are only indicative though as rider style, weight, purpose etc varies alot so comparison from rider to rider is really hard to do. I like mine set up with a 10-12mm sag at idle (just standing on the wheel) and then going to 3/4 of full travel for light off-road riding (gravel roads with small to medium bumps). Rebound is set at 6 clicks from close. For me I achieve this with 80/200 psi with the block at 80kg riding weight.

Edited September 22, 2020 by FinRider

[Mark Wilson]

17 hours ago, RockyTop said:

The S18 appears to have corrected speed settings. I took a ride on my S18 yesterday. My wife was on her 18XL. I have both of our warning beeps at 27MPH. We were side by side and the XL started beeping. I sped up quite a bit before the S18 beeped. After stopping the max speed shown on the app for each wheel was under 28 (27.2 and 27.6)  yet the S18 was going maybe 4-5 MPH faster. Also at the end of the day the 18XL recorded 38 miles and the S18 recorded 33 miles. I would believe the opposite because I literally ride circles around her. I also take the long way while she takes the short way whenever possible. ( Doing so is getting more difficult tho. She is riding faster and I don’t have the MSX speed to catch back up.) 

Now I am wondering if the S18 31 mph is the same as the V11 34 mph? To be clear with the battery configuration I would feel safer on the V11 at top speed. 
 

@Seba ran the numbers on this. He found the 18XL inflated speed by about 18% (idk about distance) while the S18 inflated speed by about 6% and distance was about correct.

That would mean the S18's top speed is ~29.2mph while the 18XL is about ~25.5mph.

He also found that the V11 inflated its speed by about 7-8%.

[Meulebeest]

On 9/19/2020 at 5:04 AM, dsd317 said:

Just thought I'd share pics of how I access inside hex socket insert without removing shock.  First pic using standard allen wrench.  Would've been easier if I had trimmed off approx. 1/4" (6.35mm) from short end of wrench.

 

Next pic shows a longer allen wrench with ball-end accessing from opposite side, under shock.

 

Good tip, and I tried it ... but it seems the are fixed together very strongly ... Glued (see white powder residu) ?
Not corrosion according to me, (wheel out of the box and only became visible when trying to unwind)

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Meulebeest

[Daniel Hollinghurst]

My s18 cutout without warning and rolled into a lake. 

Gutted. Never had a cutout in 3 years riding my Tesla... You can see in the logs how I was slowly approaching speed as you're supposed to. Smooth ground, no tiltback or beeps as expected, just pain and no more wheel. Dissappointing.

Hopefully get some warranty as was already in discussions about the battery issues. 

 

Plz kingsong save me from the heartbreak and send some parts or give sympathys :p

Logs/pics here:

https://electricpeople.org/post/the-cutout-that-ended-my-week-old-kingsong-s18-no-warning-cutout-at-top-end--5f68be1a848b854bbcf8b615

[eve]

On 9/21/2020 at 5:04 AM, Elliott Reitz said:

Yea I noticed my fender had an interference with the shock before I cut/removed 80% of it to fit my K262 tire.  Definitely worth it!

So, the contact point was between the inner fender (one of the bolt eyes) and the shock.  It was so tight on the stock wheel and already hitting the fender that I was VERY relieved that my K262 actually fit without hitting the shock in the same place.  And per the water splashes in my most recent vids... I'm pleased to say that the shock keeps the water off my a##.  Good enough!

Did you cover something on the top to prevent water dmg or something? Like for example the frontlight?