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King Song S18 Discussion


Phong Vu

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Hey, everyone!

I’ve progressed quickly. Bought my first EUC, an MTen3 in May. Put down a deposit on a S18 three weeks later and it just came today. I got one in the second batch from eWheels. 

The only weird thing is that I cannot, under any circumstances, pump the top positive chamber of the shock to anything past 150. It feels like the pump is going to snap and I don’t want to break anything. I’ve got the bottom negative chamber at about 70. 

Took it for the a ride, and it feels amazing. Suspension is definitely there. Blue rubber band is staying around 20% of the shock. It’s just weirding me out because I’ve seen many people around my weight [180lbs] keeping the positive around 200 and negative around 100, and 200 just seems impossible for this particular EUC, unless I’m missing something or doing it wrong.

I know there have been some changes with the second batch of production models, so I thought I’d defer to the community.

Thanks in advance!

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6 minutes ago, Kommienezuspadt said:

 

The only weird thing is that I cannot, under any circumstances, pump the top positive chamber of the shock to anything past 150. It feels like the pump is going to snap and I don’t want to break anything. I’ve got the bottom negative chamber at about 70. 

Took it for the a ride, and it feels amazing. Suspension is definitely there. Blue rubber band is staying around 20% of the shock. It’s just weirding me out because I’ve seen many people around my weight [180lbs] keeping the positive around 200 and negative around 100, and 200 just seems impossible for this particular EUC, unless I’m missing something or doing it wrong.

I know there have been some changes with the second batch of production models, so I thought I’d defer to the community.

Thanks in advance!

You're doing something wrong. Many people have come here and said the same thing and then they eventually figure it out. I honestly don't know what it is but if you read back probably no more than 5 to 8 pages you should find others talking about this same thing and getting it figured out.

Edited by Bridgeboy
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7 minutes ago, Kommienezuspadt said:

The only weird thing is that I cannot, under any circumstances, pump the top positive chamber of the shock to anything past 150. It feels like the pump is going to snap and I don’t want to break anything.

Make sure your not using the “telescoping/extended” section of the pump.  The extended version of pump is for pumping air into your tire.  Lock that black portion and use the smaller portion of pump to pump your shock.

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10 minutes ago, Kommienezuspadt said:

The only weird thing is that I cannot, under any circumstances, pump the top positive chamber of the shock to anything past 150. It feels like the pump is going to snap and I don’t want to break anything. I’ve got the bottom negative chamber at about 70. 

Here:

  On 9/16/2020 at 12:17 PM, nycommuter69 said:

Just arrived.

The wire near the pedal is rubbing.. we will have to hammer that in. I do have the blocks, that I will attempt to remove as well. 

Also, I realized I cannot pump the + chamber beyond 120 ? Impossible to pump it. 

 

 

Youre trying to pump it in the "tyre/tube mode". Slide middle part in and twist it to the side until it locks inside the pump. Then you have just the top part moving. 

Thanks! hahah. I figured it out before I read your post but exactly what you mentioned.

 

This discussion is on page 137 of this thread.

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13 minutes ago, fbhb said:

Unfortunately, accessing those bolts/pivot points does require a Full Strip Down, but in the long run well worth the effort.

Yes...I’m sure I mentioned the split washers in one of my earlier posts.  I wanted to learn (since it’s my 1st ever EUC) and enjoy the wheel before stripping it down to remove them.  When I removed the shock to test linkage friction, they all felt good except the middle part of linkage with the large washer (which i removed).

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8 minutes ago, dsd317 said:

Yes...I’m sure I mentioned the split washers in one of my earlier posts.  I wanted to learn (since it’s my 1st ever EUC) and enjoy the wheel before stripping it down to remove them.  When I removed the shock to test linkage friction, they all felt good except the middle part of linkage with the large washer (which i removed).

OK, I fully appreciate what you are saying and that you quite rightly want to get some experience on the wheel at this stage.  Just be aware that the "split spring washers" are not so much an area of concern regarding friction (although they can add to the issue dependant on how much torque was applied during assembly), but are very likely to destroy the bearings under load at some point.  They can at the very least destroy the rubber bearing seals or worst case scenario, break the bearing/crack races into pieces! 

Split spring washers Should Never Ever be used up against the race of a bearing, as some kind of damage is inevitable.  King Song are aware and supposed to have addressed this Now for current batches, but there are a hell of a lot of owners with S18's out there that are Not aware that this is a real area of concern!

Edited by fbhb
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2 minutes ago, fbhb said:

OK, I fully appreciate what you are saying and that you quite rightly want to get some experience on the wheel at this stage.  Just be aware that the "split spring washers" are not so much an area of concern regarding friction (although they can add to the issue dependant on how much torque was applied during assembly), but are very likely to destroy the bearings under load at some point.  They can at the very least destroy the rubber bearing seals or worst case scenario, break the bearing/crack races into pieces! 

Yes...fully aware of potential damage caused by split washer...thanks.  We’re expecting a major storm early next week, so may not be able to ride much.  Maybe I’ll remove split washers then.

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1 hour ago, dsd317 said:

Make sure your not using the “telescoping/extended” section of the pump.  The extended version of pump is for pumping air into your tire.  Lock that black portion and use the smaller portion of pump to pump your shock.

@dsd317 and @Bridgeboy, you’re both absolutely right. Oversight on my part, so thank you for saving me 140 pages of digging through this S18 thread. I found the latch lock for the smaller pump and it worked perfectly. 200 in the top chamber and 100 in the negative. Can’t wait to hit the streets tomorrow.

Thanks you, both!

Edited by Kommienezuspadt
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On 9/12/2020 at 1:41 PM, Bridgeboy said:

It appears you chose to remove the plastic fender? I guess you had to to fit the knobby tire in there?

How is that working out?

Its working out great!  (actually I put a cut-out of the left side back on to hold the wire over the wheel)  Had a nice ride on it today!  And no way would I have been able to do this ride on a road tire today.  There were too many muddy and wet patches with roots and rocks and things.  :D

On 9/14/2020 at 7:04 PM, redfoxdude said:

It could be that the sliders aren't sitting at the same level. If one is slightly lower on one side, then it contorts the fender a bit, which can cause tire rubbing. Mine came with a shim on top of the motor-wire side, and when I was putting mine back together, I found that omitting it did cause the fender to get closer on that side, even though the motor was sitting centered between the rods. From your photo, it looks like it could use a shim on the side that's on the left of the photo.

Needing a shim is definitely annoying, and King Song should improve their tolerances on their motors/mounts, but it's too bad that not everyone's S18 is arriving properly shimmed 🙁

After replacing my tire I noticed a couple of square metal shims.  Now I wonder if those were to align the tire into the fender during production.  LMAO

On 9/15/2020 at 11:34 AM, eve said:

I tried. She beeped at me.:laughbounce2:

The problem is. The tyre/wheel doesnt appear to be misaligned at all. I dont consider misaligning a straight axle for clearence a solution but thx.

@390f758c-6420-4afb-8066-fd If you dont want to take apart your wheel and repair everything. No. Its not a good beginner wheel. Since youll spend more time fixing it then learning on it. After everything gets fixed and there will come out S18s that have no issues? Yeah. Great beginner wheel.

I wonder if the spacers are under-sized. 

On 9/15/2020 at 7:18 PM, Feynman said:

Here is my final parts list.  I'll edit this into the original post on Page 1 of this thread as well.  In the instructions to follow I will refer to the parts by the numbers below.

Total cost, not including bushings / filament or any shipping (you'll have extra parts): $76.61

Thank you!

On 8/25/2020 at 3:59 PM, Duf said:

Everyone has removed that metal block between the tubes by now I assume?

No.  That was more KS BS.  I was curious if it did anything so tested it.  There was no difference w/ or w/o the blocks.  And to me it seems having them during install preserves the spec dimensions so would be more likely to work correctly... as the new pedal hangers have it built in.

 

Edited by Elliott Reitz
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Okay.

Day two with the S18 was unbelievable! Remember, my first and only other EUC was an MTen3 I bought in March. I am completely comfortable with 30mph. I see that being a criticism of the S18, and maybe it’s because I’m 40 and not 20, but I don’t not ever see a scenario where I need to go faster than 30mph.

Here is my question, though. For the first time ever, I experienced a fair amount of wobble. I’ve seen it, just never had it happen to me. I’m about 5’6”, so would being shorter cause that? Should I be pinning my knees to the top of the S18 to prevent it? Maybe lower my petals [...kinda hope not because it looks like a pain]?

it wasn’t a big deal today but I could see it causing issues in the future.

Lastly, the dumbest thing but it tipped over and scuffed one of the panels. I accepted that it was inevitable but I’m just thinking ahead. Does eWheels or any other US distributors sell replacement side panels, just to keep on deck?

Thanks in advance!

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1 minute ago, Kommienezuspadt said:

Okay.

Day two with the S18 was unbelievable! Remember, my first and only other EUC was an MTen3 I bought in March. I am completely comfortable with 30mph. I see that being a criticism of the S18, and maybe it’s because I’m 40 and not 20, but I don’t not ever see a scenario where I need to go faster than 30mph.

Here is my question, though. For the first time ever, I experienced a fair amount of wobble. I’ve seen it, just never had it happen to me. I’m about 5’6”, so would being shorter cause that? Should I be pinning my knees to the top of the S18 to prevent it? Maybe lower my petals [...kinda hope not because it looks like a pain]?

it wasn’t a big deal today but I could see it causing issues in the future.

Lastly, the dumbest thing but it tipped over and scuffed one of the panels. I accepted that it was inevitable but I’m just thinking ahead. Does eWheels or any other US distributors sell replacement side panels, just to keep on deck?

Thanks in advance!

Most wheels have a "natural wobble" at a speed and often related to tire imperfect alignment.  On my MSX 100V it happens around 25 mph.  On my S18 I get it around 20 mph.  The odd thing with the S18 and those Kuji-pads is that if you're squatting into them (that deep at speed), you can easily convert the side-side wobble into a steering wobble. 

Regardless the wheel you can dampen the wobble most easily by shifting your weight mostly to one leg, then the other (mild carving is fine).  You can find the wobble point on a smooth road and experiment with dampening vs slowing down to stay stable while learning how to handle it on that specific wheel... then as you gain confidence you can go faster without worry.

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I tried to lower my pedals today since my ankle and foot are not under the lower pads, but I couldn't because one out of four hex bolts was so tight the hex head stripped out into a circle.

I guess I'm stuck with the pedals at this height now unless I take the pedal off and drill out the hex bolt and replace it.

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I removed the blocks from my S18 again the other night (I had put them back in after I changed my tire). It did make a slight difference for me actually, but not as much of a difference as properly lubricating the sliders. It feels like a little bit less stiction. I can actually compress the suspension a bit with just one hand, without putting my fully bodyweight into it, whereas before I needed to put more weight to compress it like that. I'll be leaving them out for now.

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3 hours ago, Elliott Reitz said:

Most wheels have a "natural wobble" at a speed and often related to tire imperfect alignment.  On my MSX 100V it happens around 25 mph.  On my S18 I get it around 20 mph.  The odd thing with the S18 and those Kuji-pads is that if you're squatting into them (that deep at speed), you can easily convert the side-side wobble into a steering wobble. 

Regardless the wheel you can dampen the wobble most easily by shifting your weight mostly to one leg, then the other (mild carving is fine).  You can find the wobble point on a smooth road and experiment with dampening vs slowing down to stay stable while learning how to handle it on that specific wheel... then as you gain confidence you can go faster without worry.

Unfortunately I have learned this hard way. Going to be another 2 - 3 weeks before I can get on any wheel to go at it again. I had the freak luck of the grip tape from the pedal ripping out my skin from behind the ankle after I was tossed with the wobble. 

Edited by nycommuter69
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Over the past 2 days of riding my S18, I’ve actually been able to experience this wobble.  For me, they tend to happen around 10-15+ mph...and varied a lot depending on my feet positions on the pedals.  I’m sure part of the wobbles come from my lack of experience...but I can’t help to think that the other part may be design as well.

At the moment, I have the pedals at their lowest setting, hoping that would reduce/eliminate the wobbles, but that didn’t work.  I’ve also lowered the tire pressure to as low as 20psi and as high as 45psi.  It did feel better at the lower pressures, so tire pressure is now at around 30-35 psi.

Will raising the foot pedals to their highest setting help reduce the wobbles?

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1 hour ago, dsd317 said:

Over the past 2 days of riding my S18, I’ve actually been able to experience this wobble.  For me, they tend to happen around 10-15+ mph...and varied a lot depending on my feet positions on the pedals.  I’m sure part of the wobbles come from my lack of experience...but I can’t help to think that the other part may be design as well.

At the moment, I have the pedals at their lowest setting, hoping that would reduce/eliminate the wobbles, but that didn’t work.  I’ve also lowered the tire pressure to as low as 20psi and as high as 45psi.  It did feel better at the lower pressures, so tire pressure is now at around 30-35 psi.

Will raising the foot pedals to their highest setting help reduce the wobbles?

also try reducing the pressure in the upper chamber of your shock, that helped my wobble.

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+1 for light carving helping with wobbles, also catching it early before it gets out of hand is key. 

It can be hard, but do not tense up during a wobble, don't clamp down with your legs, don't get lower into a squat. 

Relax, stand taller and lightly carve. 

Make sure the tire is seated evenly too. And uneven tire had my trying all kinds of different things to avail. A properly seated tire and enough time on the wheel your riding (different wheels feel different) to be relaxed makes wobbles a thing of the past. 

No matter what hitting a bump and landing slightly crooked (like putting the front wheel of motorcycle down with the bars off center) is always going to be "interesting" but that's part of the fun of these devices.

Some wheels just like to wiggle a little. My mcm5 is always lively in the mid 20mph range. It is like riding a plated dirt bike on the freeway where the bars are always wiggling a little. Once used to it, and relaxed, it never progresses to a full blown wobble. 

For anyone just getting into this hobby, treat these wheels like a motorcycle. Gear up, don't press too far outside your own personal comfort zone and enjoy the ride!

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I noticed same issue when hard braking. I assume it was just because I wasnt familiar with the wheel. Light carving and changing to one foot, seemed to mitigate it. Of course, easier said than done if you're near 30mph and already trying to stop. Its very odd my newest wheel somehow suffers from the opposite. It doesnt wobble and I go too fast. Just be sure to check your tire pressure and be patient. If the wobbles are pilot induced, itll only disappear as you get better.

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2 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I noticed same issue when hard braking. I assume it was just because I wasnt familiar with the wheel. Light carving and changing to one foot, seemed to mitigate it. Of course, easier said than done if you're near 30mph and already trying to stop. Its very odd my newest wheel somehow suffers from the opposite. It doesnt wobble and I go too fast. Just be sure to check your tire pressure and be patient. If the wobbles are pilot induced, itll only disappear as you get better.

How does this (Carving) work with riding in narrow bike lanes? Does this mean one would have to stay below the wobble speed? I only ask because in my area, cars are generally always trying to rack up points by hitting other road users. While I have a few bike lanes that are 4+ feet a majority of them are narrower.

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This all does comfort me in knowing it isn’t unique to my S18, and yes, my wobble happens in the 20mph general speed.

8 hours ago, the0r1st said:

also try reducing the pressure in the upper chamber of your shock, that helped my wobble.

I’m interested in trying this. Same with the tire pressure. With my MTen3, I’ve learned that I prefer a squishier riding experience, even if comes at a slight cost of range and speed. I feel like I have more control. I’m at 200 in the positive chamber. 100 in the negative. Maybe I’ll drop it down to 170 - 180 and see how that feels.

As far as the click dial in the back of the shock, what does that do again? Would that have anything to do with stiffness while riding?

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9 hours ago, Flying W said:

It can be hard, but do not tense up during a wobble, don't clamp down with your legs, don't get lower into a squat. 

Relax, stand taller and lightly carve. 

 

Hmmm, I, and many others, have found the exact opposite of that to be true. DO NOT stand taller, but rather squat down and yes, absolutely clamp with your legs, and/or shift weight to one leg so one leg effectively clamps the wheel by leaning hard onto it.

Bottom line is with the more experience you get the less and less wheel wobble occurs and/or when it does occur you mitigate it unconsciously because you've learned to deal with it from hundreds of miles of riding.

I just received my S18 about a week ago and I rode it for the first 2 or 3 days mostly at 25 to 28 MPH and did not experience one instance of wobble on the brand new wheel I just started riding for the first time. Then yesterday I went riding and started getting wobble all over the pace for some unknown reason. My theory is my muscles were fatigued from riding the past few times and were recovering and didn't have the same strength to stop the wobble from happening in the first place.

I used to experience much more wobble when I first started riding my KS18XL back in January of this year. But now, after 1,000 miles of experience on it, if I do, I quickly mitigate it...there's many ways to do it really and they all rely on changing the weight distribution...no doubt that's why one person can say "stand taller and relax" and get the same results as someone who says "crouch down and clamp."

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7 hours ago, Simply_Striking said:

How does this (Carving) work with riding in narrow bike lanes? Does this mean one would have to stay below the wobble speed? I only ask because in my area, cars are generally always trying to rack up points by hitting other road users. While I have a few bike lanes that are 4+ feet a majority of them are narrower.

Each situtation is different. Depending no how wide and surroundings, you can make small movements. Of course, if you're on a very narrow lane and new to this, maybe staying at a comfy and safer speed would suffice? I do know that the wobbles seem to go away with mileage.

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i don't surf but you ain't gonna learn it from a book,  you got at get out there and do it.  Im 55 never had a wheel before . my missus thinks im gona kill my self, I will prove her wrong again through trial and error. She is already calling it my  one wheel suicide machine

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