King Song S18 Discussion

[RockyTop]

1 minute ago, Bridgeboy said:

There's such low clearance betwen that and the outside shell it seems like it would scrape with the suspension travels. It doesn't?

The problem with some wheels like @Rehab1's wheel is that the shell already scrapes the wire. You can see the cuts in the wire caused by the shell. In other cases your foot moves the wire in the way of the shell. The protector adds about 0.05 mm to the width. So yes even if the protector did not add width the protector would still rub. To fix this I added a shim that fit between the battery and the shell. It is easy to slide in without any disassembly. You can glue the shim in or just let it sit in place. an offset (hook) keeps it in place. A second shim is not needed but sent for the other side of the EUC just to keep both sides symmetric. The shim adds 3mm of clearance. 

 

5 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Is this your design? Fantastic!

Just a thought.....I would recommend including 2 longer screws for the top attachment. My existing OEM screws would not catch the threads so I had to grind off some plastic on the reverse side. Other than that I’m thrilled. 

Yes, Thanks.  People asked for a solution. I found one. 

My S18 had ridiculously long screws I am not surprised that other S18's have shorter screws. I will include longer screws in all new orders. 

[Rehab1]

27 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

The problem with some wheels like @Rehab1's wheel is that the shell already scrapes the wire.

Not anymore.

28 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

To fix this I added a shim that fit between the battery and the shell. It is easy to slide in without any disassembly.

That was a great mod as well.  Just to be safe I added some double faced tape to secure the shims in place.,  I just used a screwdriver to elevate the shell while sliding in the shims. 

I wished my knowledge of 3D printing was at your level. Have you ever considered printing a latch mechanism to prevent the S18’s handle from popping up accidentally ? 

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

S18 motor wire protector sold here

Highly endorsed!

 

[Rehab1]

2 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

 

I got the the bolt out with the largest Speedout bit you see in this picture. It happened to fit right in the stripped hole without needed any drilling:

 

I missed this. Awesome!

2 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

And here is my pedals lowered as far as they can go on the tubes:

Great mod! Fun stuff making these machines custom to fit our needs. 

[Bridgeboy]

4 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I missed this. Awesome!

Great mod! Fun stuff making these machines custom to fit our needs. 

Thanks. However, I now realize how crappy is my suspension. I was so happy to have a wheel with suspension that moved at all that I never checked it with no pressure in the the shock chambers. I finally decided to after lowering my pedals and reading so much about people having suspension problems, and rebuilding their suspension (like you); and my suspension is so stuck it's ridiculous. It take a huge amount of force to get it to move up or down. It super sticky even after lubricating everywhere and removing the pedal bracket blocks.

Kingsong really screwed the pooch with the release of these S18s. I've already sent my unit back to eWheels for the misaligned wheel rubbing the fender and they fixed that...they probably didn't even know to check the suspension back then. I'm hoping they'll do something about it and backcharge KS for this crap. It's unacceptable and not everybody has the time, skill, and resources you do to fix it themselves.

[Rehab1]

26 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

I'm hoping they'll do something about it and backcharge KS for this crap. It's unacceptable and not everybody has the time, skill, and resources you do to fix it themselves.

I believe KS will eventually offer a kit to free up their suspension system but again it would still require tearing the S18 apart.

Batch 3’s suspension should speak volumes and set a benchmark on how it’s predecessors should have performed. 

Hopefully you can have your wheel fixed. The main friction issue I encountered was the split washers and the forced assembly of the dual pivot bearings into the suspension arms.

[Bridgeboy]

3 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I believe KS will eventually offer a kit to free up their suspension system but again it would still require tearing the S18 apart.

Batch 3’s suspension should speak volumes and set a benchmark on how it’s predecessors should have performed. 

Hopefully you can have your wheel fixed. The main friction issue I encountered was the split washers and the forced assembly of the dual pivot bearings into the suspension arms.

Can you elaborate on what the part in bold means?

[.....]

57 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I believe KS will eventually offer a kit to free up their suspension system but again it would still require tearing the S18 apart.

Batch 3’s suspension should speak volumes and set a benchmark on how it’s predecessors should have performed.

Aww, how nice. So basicallly what you are saying is.. History won't repeat itself and in your reality, hope springs eternal....

[Rehab1]

8 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Aww, how nice. So basicallly what you are saying is.. History won't repeat itself and in your reality, hope springs eternal....

Kind of. 

As I alluded to batch 2 (3) should speak volumes of Kingsong’s commitment to QC. They are aware of the S18’s problems. Every EUC manufacturer has experienced issues when releasing new wheels.

My Inmotion V10f had faulty bearings and water intrusion issues. Corrected. Gotway has issues with suboptimal wiring resulting in fried circuitry. Corrected. Etc....

If KS continues to release the S18 without addressing the rudimentary suspension issues then I’ll concede with your premise.

Yes I’m optimistic.

[Rehab1]

10 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

Can you elaborate on what the part in bold means?

The bearing pockets on the suspension arms were unfortunately contaminated with paint. When the pivot bearings were pressed into the pockets at the factory the thick layers of paint on the arms impeded a smooth installation causing the piggybacked bearings to become malaligned.

The bearing mal-alignments caused the bushings (allen barrel posts) to bind. The bushings should easily slide through both bearings effortlessly. In my case many bushings had to be hammered into place. The bind was immediate.

If KS would simply clean out the pockets of foreign material before pressing the bearings into place a majority of the suspension’s friction would be resolved.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Rehab1

[Rehab1]

Here is a short clip of how smooth my S18 suspension has become since performing my mods.

If you experience the same effortless rebound characteristics after removing your blocks and lubricating the articulations and sliders then I would just leave the wheel intact and enjoy.

If you can remove the split washers and replace them with an additional set of pivot bearings or just layered flat washers all the better. Good luck!

[Bridgeboy]

1 hour ago, Rehab1 said:

Here is a short clip of how smooth my S18 suspension has become since performing my mods.

If you experience the same effortless rebound characteristics after removing your blocks and lubricating the articulations and sliders then I would just leave the wheel intact and enjoy.

If you can remove the split washers and replace them with an additional set of pivot bearings or just layered flat washers all the better. Good luck!

 

Thanks for the video. That's does give some sort of an idea. But what gives an even clearer picture of how good or bad things are is to remove all pressure from both chambers and then push down on the wheel and pick it back up. Like this guy does in this video:

 

 

When I do that it pushes down with much difficultly with a lot of my weight and when I pick it back up it just stays stuck in that compressed position and will only go back down if I shake it up and down with a lot of force.

I would love to see how yours behaves like that with no air pressure in the chambers. 

 

[Rehab1]

3 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

I would love to see how yours behaves like that with no air pressure in the chambers. 

My S18 does not respond that way. My suspension did drop with gravity when the shock was detached. The new 38RC shock has only one chamber and is stiffer so I’m not sure if that makes any difference. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Rehab1

[Bridgeboy]

18 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

My S18 does not respond that way. My suspension did drop with gravity when the shock was detached. The new 38RC shock has only one chamber and is stiffer so I’m not sure if that makes any difference. 

 

I see. That's too bad because I really wanted to see how smooth your suspension rebuild was through the full range of motion...  

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Bridgeboy

[eve]

On 9/26/2020 at 12:48 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

They also discuss it in length...

Yes but noone has been screaming about S18 cutting every 15 seconds. Seems like they going with the "Trends."

[eve]

22 hours ago, RockyTop said:

S18 motor wire protector sold here

Item: 6.99USD 
Shipping: 22.99USD

.... 

[RockyTop]

1 hour ago, eve said:

Item: 6.99USD 
Shipping: 22.99USD

.... 

Sorry, I think that I fixed it. It should have been $13 shipping out of the US. I know that is still high but that is the actual cost. Not fair when China can ship to the US for  $0.78

Back on topic, This is the S18 thread not a sales thread. Sorry 

The S18 is a bit weak because of the battery situation but I still enjoy mine. I just don't push it hard continually. 

 

[Rehab1]

5 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

 

I see. That's too bad because I really wanted to see how smooth your suspension rebuild was through the full range of motion...  

 

I’m happy with it. Interestingly I found it hard to pull or push my new shock when I first examined it out of the box. I‘ll need to look at the old 36RC tomorrow. 

[Elliott Reitz]

On 9/22/2020 at 12:51 PM, eve said:

Did you cover something on the top to prevent water dmg or something? Like for example the frontlight?

Nothing extra for water and I've done lots of riding in rain and through puddles, oh and even up water up to the top of my boots with no issues! (vid link starts at that creek)

On 9/27/2020 at 9:31 AM, Rehab1 said:

Here is a short clip of how smooth my S18 suspension has become since performing my mods.

If you experience the same effortless rebound characteristics after removing your blocks and lubricating the articulations and sliders then I would just leave the wheel intact and enjoy.

If you can remove the split washers and replace them with an additional set of pivot bearings or just layered flat washers all the better. Good luck!

My suspension seems about like that.  Though the next vid by @Bridgeboy looks way better than mine.  I am curious if yours will lift/drop as easy as his does with the air out or one end of the shock disconnected.  Mine doesn't!

On 9/27/2020 at 11:27 AM, Bridgeboy said:

Thanks for the video. That's does give some sort of an idea. But what gives an even clearer picture of how good or bad things are is to remove all pressure from both chambers and then push down on the wheel and pick it back up. Like this guy does in this video:

When I do that it pushes down with much difficultly with a lot of my weight and when I pick it back up it just stays stuck in that compressed position and will only go back down if I shake it up and down with a lot of force.

I would love to see how yours behaves like that with no air pressure in the chambers. 

That's awesome to see!  And I'm surprised just letting the air out got it to move that easy.  In this vid I was testing the pedal-spacing-block theory.  But my lift/drop required actual force (compressed it doesn't just slide down w/o using my toe to pull it down)!  My only improvements are oiled the sliders and removed the linkage washers.  Also I had removed the valves from my valve-extenders (shock deflated and "open" both chambers).

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Elliott Reitz
spelling

[Beachboy]

On 9/27/2020 at 10:27 PM, Bridgeboy said:

 

 

Mine behave like that, i only removed those original washers and replace it with smaller size as described in the thread, then greased them all including sliders..nothing fancy tho..but I’m happy with the result..

 

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Beachboy said:

Mine behave like that, i only removed those original washers and replace it with smaller size as described in the thread, then greased them all including sliders..nothing fancy tho..but I’m happy with the result..

 

Excellent!  As I mentioned earlier not all S18 suspensions are created equal. 

What you performed to make your suspension smoother should apply to most S18s. As for myself.... spending 20 + hours in the serenity of my shop adding non-essential components  was a vacation. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Rehab1

[Bridgeboy]

3 hours ago, Beachboy said:

Mine behave like that, i only removed those original washers and replace it with smaller size as described in the thread, then greased them all including sliders..nothing fancy tho..but I’m happy with the result..

 

Can you tell me what page in this thread where it is described what to do?

[Beachboy]

3 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Excellent!  As I mentioned earlier not all S18 suspensions are created equal. 

What you performed to make your suspension smoother should apply to most S18s. As for myself.... spending 20 + hours in the serenity of my shop adding non-essential components  was a vacation. 

I have seen your thread, lots of information there for making an advance fix on the suspension system, also feynman’s thread, I am myself gratefull for both of you 👍👍👍💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺

 

1 hour ago, Bridgeboy said:

 Can you tell me what page in this thread where it is described what to do?

The bearing size can be found in feynman & rehab1 threads

but pls check your sliders movement too, it is important to have a straight sliders & good fittings. I was lucky to have them all right out of the box. 🍺🍺🍺

Edited September 29, 2020 by Beachboy

[SamSuffit]

According to Denis Hagov, the wheel has potential but still needs some improvements...he talks of it as prototype:

 

[c5flybyu]

6 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

Can you tell me what page in this thread where it is described what to do?

Duf put together a good video: