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King Song S18 Discussion


Phong Vu

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Here's my theory as to why tightening axle screws cause binding in sliders.  If the right/left axles are not parallel to each other, and/or the pockets on the sliders where the axles sit in are not flat or parallel to the axles, then tightening axle screws would cause the sliders to bow inwards/outwards enough to bind.  Just my theory.

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11 minutes ago, Feynman said:

I'm curious if the measurement varies as you move up the rails? (i.e. are they parallel?)  Did you have the block in place when you tightened them?

Good question. No I did not. I’ll look tomorrow.


Regarding the blocks (bricks) it is my understanding that they are set in place after the battery packs are installed on the suspension pillars and just before torquing those mounting bolts. 

50377367567_619b26a6d9_b.jpg

I’ve watch the S18 assembly movie way too many times :popcorn: but maybe the blocks would work to keep the pillars aligned when tightening   both the axle and battery frames. 

How is your wheel coming along?

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23 minutes ago, dsd317 said:

Here's my theory as to why tightening axle screws cause binding in sliders.  If the right/left axles are not parallel to each other, and/or the pockets on the sliders where the axles sit in are not flat or parallel to the axles, then tightening axle screws would cause the sliders to bow inwards/outwards enough to bind.  Just my theory.

Excellent theory! :cheers: How do we test it? :confused1:

50377227331_67c2efe7f9_z.jpg

 

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1 minute ago, Rehab1 said:

Excellent theory! :cheers: How do we test it? :confused1:

50377227331_67c2efe7f9_z.jpg

 

Lol...already did.  When I tightened the 2 axle screws closest to the motor on the right and left side, there is little binding.  Then, after tightening the 2 outer axle screws, the ones farthest away from motor, the sliders bind even more.  This is why I'm thinking the tubes are bending either inwards or outwards when tightening axle screws.

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5 minutes ago, dsd317 said:

Lol...already did.  When I tightened the 2 axle screws closest to the motor on the right and left side, there is little binding.  Then, after tightening the 2 outer axle screws, the ones farthest away from motor, the sliders bind even more.  This is why I'm thinking the tubes are bending either inwards or outwards when tightening axle screws.

I did a vid with and without blocks with the valve-s removed from the shock.  The motion has serious friction type resistance... not binding.  It seems it was shipped with dry o-rings in the sliders.  Lubricating that helped quite a bit... though they're still very slow.  I think the shock also has too much internal 'resistance' in that the rebound knob full-open doesn't release the shock to act like a spring (or nothing with the valves out) but instead adds huge friction-like resistance.  The resistance I feel is throughout the motion of the travel.  With valves out the suspension doesn't compress by itself (takes about 30 lbs pushing to make it compress), and by lifting it doesn't extend without a little pushing on the shock or holding by foot while lifting. 

Ref this vid: 

 

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3 minutes ago, dsd317 said:

This is why I'm thinking the tubes are bending either inwards or outwards when tightening axle screws.

Good man! Well there must be a weak link in the slider’s structure. The torqued hex bolts bearing down on the machined axle clamp do create significant force. Time for a drink. 

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3 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Good question. No I did not. I’ll look tomorrow.


Regarding the blocks (bricks) it is my understanding that they are set in place after the battery packs are installed on the suspension pillars and just before torquing those mounting bolts. 

50377367567_619b26a6d9_b.jpg

I’ve watch the S18 assembly movie way too many times :popcorn: but maybe the blocks would work to keep the pillars aligned when tightening   both the axle and battery frames. 

How is your wheel coming along?

You're right, sorry.  The blocks go with the pedal hangers.  But you do have an interesting thought there - maybe wait until installing the pedal hangers to tighten the motor mounts at the same time?  My wheel hasn't changed in a few days.  I realized that the shafts are rotating along with the arms in the slider and top holes, so my thrust bearing there are doing effectively nothing.  They won't hurt anything, but it's not a great design.  I guess I should just leave it as is and get the wheel back together.

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1 hour ago, yon said:

I just hope kingsong are taking note of this

They are taking note that S18 owner are enjoying taking apart, modding and upgrading the S18 from the get go. 

So I guess, they are doing things right and don't have to change anything? 

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Mine should be here in days.  I have my own QC check to do on arrival and the check list is quite extensive thanks to this forum.  If I take out the bottom spindle on the suspension unit and it does not slide up and down freely like in @feynmans latest video leaves me with two choices. Upgrade it or send it back.  The  rite the decision has to be made quickly because I lost all my engineering skills the day I lost the job 30 years ago.  All I have Left is an adjustable spanner a hammer and screw driver and that’s it.

Edited by yon
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2 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I just solved a major slider binding problem. It was driving me nuts! The 2 motor’s axle bushings contact the axle clamp but when the 8 hex nuts were torqued it affected the alignment of the slider assembly.

50378644168_5a1f16bfd4_b.jpg

 

50379314341_b56bd38222_b.jpg

I created a 1mm deep slot in the machined clamp to eliminate the contact with the axle bushings when the hex bolts are torqued.

50378620473_2e9cfc32e4_b.jpg

 


Photo depicting the clearance between axle clamp and motor bushing. This mod was the last major hurdle for eliminating the binding in the sliders.  :)

50379439146_729b2eaf33_b.jpg

 

Very nice!  I'm adding that to my list!

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2 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

I just solved a major slider binding problem. It was driving me nuts! The 2 motor’s axle bushings contact the axle clamp but when the 8 hex nuts were torqued it affected the alignment of the slider assembly.

50378644168_5a1f16bfd4_b.jpg

 

50379314341_b56bd38222_b.jpg

I created a 1mm deep slot in the machined clamp to eliminate the contact with the axle bushings when the hex bolts are torqued.

50378620473_2e9cfc32e4_b.jpg

 


Photo depicting the clearance between axle clamp and motor bushing. This mod was the last major hurdle for eliminating the binding in the sliders.  :)

50379439146_729b2eaf33_b.jpg

 

I could be wrong but i don't think those are axle bushings.  I think they are spacers to prevent motor/wheel from slipping side-to-side relative to the sliding tube mounts/frame.  So as long as those spacers are contacting the slider axle mounts, and not the clamp axle mounts, you should be good.

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