King Song S18 Discussion

[dsd317]

I'd like to talk about the S18's pedal dip.  Should I discuss it in this thread...or start a new one?

[Rehab1]

24 minutes ago, dsd317 said:

25 minutes ago, dsd317 said:

I could be wrong but i don't think those are axle bushings.  I think they are spacers to prevent motor/wheel from slipping side-to-side relative to the sliding tube mounts/frame.

Spacers may be a better term. 

 

27 minutes ago, dsd317 said:

So as long as those spacers are contacting the slider axle mounts, and not the clamp axle mounts, you should be good.

Yes the motor’s axle is well locked in with the 2 machined clamps and 8 torqued bolts. If by some fluke the motor were to move laterally in either direction by my allowed 1mm void the tire would still not contact the fender. 

[Rehab1]

13 minutes ago, dsd317 said:

I'd like to talk about the S18's pedal dip.  Should I discuss it in this thread...or start a new one?

This is a perfect area to talk about your subject but feel free to create a separate topic!

[dsd317]

14 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Yes the motor’s axle is well locked in with the 2 machined clamps and 8 torqued bolts.

LOL...my bad.  You're right.  Axles are clamped and should NOT be able to move side-to-side, regardless of whether spacers are touching mounts or not.

[redfoxdude]

3 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

I just solved a major slider binding problem. It was driving me nuts! The 2 motor’s axle bushings contact the axle clamp but when the 8 hex nuts were torqued it affected the alignment of the slider assembly.

[PHOTO]

[PHOTO]

I created a 1mm deep slot in the machined clamp to eliminate the contact with the axle bushings when the hex bolts are torqued.

[PHOTO]

Photo depicting the clearance between axle clamp and motor bushing. This mod was the last major hurdle for eliminating the binding in the sliders.  

[PHOTO]

Oh interesting! I did find that sometimes I got some additional binding after tightening the hex bolts, but I was able to minimize it with some fiddling. I bet it will get even better if I add this slot to my clamps. Thanks for sharing this finding!

[Rehab1]

23 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

Oh interesting! I did find that sometimes I got some additional binding after tightening the hex bolts, but I was able to minimize it with some fiddling. I bet it will get even better if I add this slot to my clamps. Thanks for sharing this finding!

Your most welcome! I love destroying stuff. 

I’m now full speed ahead on the reassembly process.

[yon]

AHHHHHHH chuffing Ahhhh whats a person to do .  £2000;00 aint easy to come by that easily for me and most other folk viewing this forum I expect.  What have I done to my pocket in the name of fun because this is not funny. . Goddam utube and its profiling of me how did it know I wanted this c**p before I did.  I got a 35 yo  honda c90 in the garage running on beautiful 4stroke petrol it could be mint with 750 spent on it.

 

keep it relevant warning coming up, apologies in advance

Edited September 24, 2020 by yon

[Rehab1]

Before torquing the lower platform screws install your brick. Make sure it is aligned with the lower portion of the platform when tightening the screws. 

My block slipped upwards to the top channel at first and bound up the screws. I also put a little lithium grease on the threads. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Rehab1

[dsd317]

3 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

This is a perfect area to talk about your subject but feel free to create a separate topic!

I've created a separate thread:

 

[Bridgeboy]

 

I really need to lower my pedals but one out of four Allen head bolts was so tight it stripped out into a circle.  I was using the correct 5mm wrench. The only way I'll get it out is if I take the pedal off and drill out the bolt. 

I emailed eWheels and Jason does not have replacement bolts yet. Does anyone know the specification for these bolts? Maybe I can finds some at Home Depot or an auto parts store or something?

My ankles do not like the current (middle height) of these pedals at all. I've already rubbed all the skin off my right ankle.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Bridgeboy

[Elliott Reitz]

16 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Man... I am glad some people actually enjoy modifying and working on this wheel. 

But honestly, this kind of stuff is unacceptable. It's now on 2nd batch and there have been zero improvements made. 

Modding and improving on your own is great, but only if the product is working in the first place.

Nobody here paid 2k for a euc KIT. You paid for a fully functional product out of a box. 

I love my 16x, glad I canceled my preorder of this wheel.

Worst thing for me about this is I prob wouldn't even think about a future KS wheel after seeing this. As someone who loves my KS wheel to feel that way, there has to be more who feel the same. 

Yea, its a 1st/2nd batch product at this point.  For me the suspension travel better than a V11 with a ligher weight than the V11 still give me satisfaction with the S18 over any other wheel options.  And note I do have an MSX 100V.  With that MSX my ankles were getting sore for multiple days at a time from curb-shots and riding on grass... I seriously appreciate the suspension.

15 hours ago, Feynman said:

To be fair, I'd rather be riding the wheel than fixing it

In spite of my next reply I've spent less than 10 hours fixing/upgrading my wheel.  And I've ridden it 200 miles (mostly slow so that's about 40 hours since 8/8/2020).

15 hours ago, Simply_Striking said:

As a potential KS customer this is correct. It appears that their manufacturing/assembly  process allows for way too much variance. 

I love this wheel design, and it is what got me looking at EUCs, but....

After the issues with the preproduction units, that persisted with 1st batch units. Then issues with the 1st batch showing up in the 2nd batch. I am waiting to see what happens to the 3rd batch.

Was looking at the 16x as well but it seems like that wheel has issues with battery and dust ingression as well.

TBH the Gotway RS  is looking spec wise very attractive at the moment, despite looking like a soap dish, and for only a $200 more than the S18 and 16X. The extra range, and higher safety margin. I hate the v11 design style, and it looks fragile.

I know there are probably a bunch or happy S18 owners out there enjoying their wheel and would not come here to complain about issues, but from what I see here, compared to other wheel forums... it is alot.

KS come on... I am tryna be a fanboy here!!!

Edit: This wheel not being able to fit a knobby tire without modification because of fender clearance is silly. just my 0.02

After putting a dual use tire on my MSX, I expected to have to do mods to the S18 for the sake of a similar tire.  As for manufacturing defects, eWheels has been fantastic.  The defects and issues to date (and solutions) for me have been:

1. Charger failed on its attempted 1st use (replaced by eWheels)

2. Extreme annoyance it didn't work right out of the box... it was locked, then speed limited (had to download app to get it to unlock)

3. KS Apps require 100% privileges to phone.. Seems too risky for me like the Chi-com BS like Tiktok.  (uninstalled after unlock and firmware update, now use EUCWorld per eWheels suggestion)

4. "Lift mode" handle position still rotates/stands the wheel... Even tonight I dropped the wheel again after jumping on it in that position. (future mod would be nice to replace the trolly handle with a seat that can double as a lift-handle and a lift-switch, or better a simple power ON/OFF switch instead of a button.  This thing NEVER actually turns off.  I can see the IR sensor glows 24/7). 

5.  Shock pump got stuck while following directions.  Buggered the valve threads. (solved via tight-bend air-valve extenders, they work better than that block for shock inflation)

6. Slider tubes not lubricated.  It still worked but was seriously stiff.   (I now use WD40... oh and o-ring-covers don't stay down for crap)

7. Side-pads too wide at the top made the wheel shit for slow maneuverability.  (Cut the pads out from the top-back leaving a "power pad" like front before getting to the Kugi deep bend "power pad" level.  While I was at it I also cut the back of the side-plates under the pads because it shows the suspension more, looks better IMHO).

8. Wheel bearing (or maybe the spacers) make a 1x/revolution clicking sound (it goes away for a couple days after some WD40)

9. Inner fender won't fit the K262 tire that fits on other wheels that use the same tire this wheel comes with (removed 80% of the inner fender, works fine without it now)

10. Removed washers from bolts between linkage per this thread on friction (though I think the friction is in the sliders, not the linkages)

11. Foot plates bending about 1mm and making loud crackling noise when shifting my weight.  (eWheels sent replacements due in a couple of days, may make the old ones into extended pedals with stiffening some how)

12.  THAT FUKING BEEPER HAS GOT TO GO.  It beeps without reason at the worst possible times.  NFW would I ride this wheel to work with that problem... its not cool... don't want negative attention it draws, or missing the wildlife it scares away (next time I 'work' on this wheel I'm removing the controller board to either destroy it or find a way to put a switch in series with it)

 

15 hours ago, Mark Wilson said:

I agree that they should've made the fender larger to allow for larger knobby tires but you can at least fit a smaller knobby tire according to this post:

 

The K262 fits MSX/MSP wheels without mods.  It should have fit the KS18 w/o mods too.  The inner fender clearance is so small I actually consider it a danger where a small stick or stone could cause a jam produced cutout, especially off road.  My MSX with a yet bigger tire (Shinko SR241) often makes substantial noise as pebbles and sticks go through between its fender & tire. 

My mod to only use the left side of the inner fender is working out wonderfully.  And I'm surprised how little water gets up my but riding through puddles and even tonight a creek (I had to jump off and get a wet foot when the water got too deep (very end of this vid). 

11 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

I just solved a major slider binding problem. It was driving me nuts! The 2 motor’s axle bushings contact the axle clamp but when the 8 hex nuts were torqued it affected the alignment of the slider assembly.

{pics}

I created a 1mm deep slot in the machined clamp to eliminate the contact with the axle bushings when the hex bolts are torqued.

{pic}
Photo depicting the clearance between axle clamp and motor bushing. This mod was the last major hurdle for eliminating the binding in the sliders.  

{pic}

I'm curious if you've tested this theory?  Like remove one end of the shock and see if it slides up/down easy.   Otherwise it doesn't sound likely to affect it.  On my wheel the spacers are actually loose enough to move with my finger.  Without lubricating them I get a click sound 1x/rev that I suspect is internal to the motor bearings but it could be the spacers.  Though I don't think the spacers are causing slider-tube bending.  Rather the sliders just seem to lack friction throughout the travel. 

After changing my tire I found 2 1cm^2 shims that I think must have come from the axle mounts... my impression is KS may have used them to align the tire within the fender.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Elliott Reitz
"require" and "ewheels suggestion" on item 3

[Rehab1]

8 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

 

I really need to lower my pedals but one out of four Allen head bolts was so tight it stripped out into a circle.  I was using the correct 5mm wrench. The only way I'll get it out is if I take the pedal off and drill out the bolt.

 I emailed eWheels and Jason does not have replacement bolts yet. Does anyone know the specification for these bolts?

 

 

Those allen bolts are difficult to remove. Did you remove your blocks before attempting to loosen the bolts?

The bolts should have some lithium grease applied before reassembly to prevent gaulding. 

I don’t have the exact dimensions. I would suggest taking a bolt to an auto parts store to obtain a higher grade bolt.

[Kommienezuspadt]

I should preface this by saying I’m not gifted with tearing these things down and putting them back together. I was never a “car guy”. 

I was in batch 2 and bummed that after a few weeks, I’d have to put my S18 in the garage for half the year once the Minnesota winter came, the found a four year old video of Chooch riding through 9” of snow in Colorado! The idea that I could make this an all year wheel could be the only silver lining to this awful year.

I’m assuming for that to be a reality, I’ll have to change the wheel to a knobby tire for snow. Am I reading this thread right that you aren’t able to do that without some involved mods? Honestly, just the process of changing the tire to begin with gives me anxiety. 

[Rehab1]

10 hours ago, Elliott Reitz said:

I'm curious if you've tested this theory?  Like remove one end of the shock and see if it slides up/down easy.   Otherwise it doesn't sound likely to affect it.  On my wheel the spacers are actually loose enough to move with my finger. 

Yes sir I did. Like I alluded to earlier not all S18 suspensions are created equal. My spacer did not move nor is it suppose to. But there was binding which is not eliminated once the mod was complete. 
 

11 minutes ago, Kommienezuspadt said:

Am I reading this thread right that you aren’t able to do that without some involved mods? Honestly, just the process of changing the tire to begin with gives me anxiety. 

The disassembly and assembly videos Kingsong has  produced are actually very thorough. You don’t need to tear the entire S18 apart to change a tire. 

Review the videos and you’ll soon see that it’s not too difficult. Just be sure to place all of your screws in separate containers and label everything for ease of reassembly.

[Rehab1]

I sorry for those that disagree but IMHO the S18 is a work of art. Sure there were hiccups along the way which will improve on the next batch but just look at the layout of the componentry and wiring harnesses. Impressive!

 

[Feynman]

3 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I sorry for those that disagree but IMHO the S18 is a work of art. Sure there were hiccups along the way which will improve on the next batch but just look at the layout of the componentry and wiring harnesses. Impressive!

 

I completely agree.  The amount of engineering that went into this thing is impressive.  Reminiscent of the Z10, but even sexier

Edited September 25, 2020 by Feynman

[Daniel Hollinghurst]

Long story short. After a week of ownership...

S18 = dead

Water damage = no warranty. 

Sad times.

pics/cutout logs here:

https://electricpeople.org/post/the-cutout-that-ended-my-week-old-kingsong-s18-no-warning-cutout-at-top-end--5f68be1a848b854bbcf8b615

[Bridgeboy]

3 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Those allen bolts are difficult to remove. Did you remove your blocks before attempting to loosen the bolts?

The bolts should have some lithium grease applied before reassembly to prevent gaulding. 

I don’t have the exact dimensions. I would suggest taking a bolt to an auto parts store to obtain a higher grade bolt.

Yes the blocks were removed. Three bolts I got to break loose and the 4th one stripped out. I didn't even attempt the opposite pedal after that happened.

I guess I'll bring one of the bolts to an auto parts place and see what I can find.

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Bridgeboy said:

Yes the blocks were removed. Three bolts I got to break loose and the 4th one stripped out. I didn't even attempt the opposite pedal after that happened.

I guess I'll bring one of the bolts to an auto parts place and see what I can find.

Bummer! The bolt might be seized. Have you used bolt extractors before?

You’ll need to use some penetrating oil first to unseize the bolt as to extract it. Best use the lubricant on the other 4 bolts as well. 

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Daniel Hollinghurst said:

Long story short. After a week of ownership...

S18 = dead

Water damage = no warranty. 

Sad times.

pics/cutout logs here:

https://electricpeople.org/post/the-cutout-that-ended-my-week-old-kingsong-s18-no-warning-cutout-at-top-end--5f68be1a848b854bbcf8b615

Damn. Really sad!

 

[RockyTop]

14 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

 

I really need to lower my pedals but one out of four Allen head bolts was so tight it stripped out into a circle.  I was using the correct 5mm wrench. The only way I'll get it out is if I take the pedal off and drill out the bolt. 

I emailed eWheels and Jason does not have replacement bolts yet. Does anyone know the specification for these bolts? Maybe I can finds some at Home Depot or and auto parts store or something?

My ankles do not like the current (middle height) of these pedals at all. I've already rubbed all the skin off my right ankle.

 

 

Sorry to hear this. It should be easy to bring one of the good bolts to a hardware store to find a replacement. Ace hardware, True Value or an actual Industrial bolt store is more likely to have them. 
 

I have found that using Hex drivers (Allen wrenches) that have the ball shape on the end are quick to strip out socket bolts. If this is how you got to this point using a non ball shaped wrench might still get the bolt out. 

Next I have had great luck in getting the next size bigger Hex driver and tapering the end down with a grinder until it just fits then hammering / wedging it in for that extra thigh fit. ( Page 52 of the “Red Neck problem solving “  manual) 

[GoGeorgeGo]

3 hours ago, Daniel Hollinghurst said:

Long story short. After a week of ownership...

S18 = dead

Water damage = no warranty. 

Sad times.

pics/cutout logs here:

https://electricpeople.org/post/the-cutout-that-ended-my-week-old-kingsong-s18-no-warning-cutout-at-top-end--5f68be1a848b854bbcf8b615

The battery and motor are still good and so is the suspension.  I bet if you just swap control boards you can get it running again!

[Mark Wilson]

Another review that had major problems with cutouts. Maybe too many cutouts? Do you guys think that there is a problem with their wheel or is this once again just what happens when you push the S18 too hard (due to the smaller battery capacity)?

Edit: The part of the video with the cutout is at the 8:10 mark.

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Mark Wilson

[fryman]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

The battery and motor are still good and so is the suspension.  I bet if you just swap control boards you can get it running again!

Don’t think so. They are water resistant not waterproof.

[eve]

2 hours ago, Mark Wilson said:

Another review that had major problems with cutouts. Maybe too many cutouts? Do you guys think that there is a problem with their wheel or is this once again just what happens when you push the S18 too hard (due to the smaller battery capacity)?

 

No offense. But making a 30s snippet about a wheel cutting out at 5% battery is not really convincing.