King Song S18 Discussion

[Steef Klonoa]

From the instructional video posted above, its set the same way as me. I did just remove the blocks from the wheel. Its still sticking a bit though, I dont think the suspension would do its job if I rode it. EDIT---never mind I got it! Gonna have to take it for a test ride now.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Steef Klonoa

[Steef Klonoa]

Psi is set to 120 over 55. I weigh 165lbs

[AtlasP]

On 9/16/2020 at 11:47 AM, Stillhart said:

@AtlasP exactly.  Note that the V11 is taller to begin with and the pedals are a lot lower.

Those are the pre-production/demo models that made the rounds. As stated by others, the final production V11 has notably higher pedals.

With that in mind, then yours is the most bizarre interpretation of that picture. The only height difference is in the handle (irrelevant to perceived wheel height between the legs), and otherwise the main body of the two wheels is very nearly the same height (look at the picture again). Now the width of the saddle carries the width of the wheel up to be a bit wider at the top compared to how much the top of the S18 tapers, which I'm assuming is what you're referring to, but which is different from what you keep insisting. (And/or you got to try the pre-production/demo model V11 with the lower pedals, but again which is substantially different in the final production version.)

Edited September 17, 2020 by AtlasP

[Stillhart]

2 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Those are the pre-production/demo models that made the rounds. As stated by others, the final production V11 has notably higher pedals.

With that in mind, then yours is the most bizarre interpretation of that picture. The only height difference is in the handle (irrelevant to perceived wheel height between the legs), and otherwise the main body of the two wheels is very nearly the same height (look at the picture again). Now the width of the saddle carries the width of the wheel up to be a bit wider at the top compared to how much the top of the S18 tapers, which I'm assuming is what you're referring to. (And/or you got to try the pre-production/demo model V11 with the lower pedals, but again which is substantially different in the final production version.)

Look man, if you're going to post a picture to try to prove me wrong or whatever, that's fine.  But why would you post a picture that proves my point and then tell me that the picture is actually wrong and therefore my interpretation of said picture is "bizarre"?  lol   I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!  Why not just post a correct picture that proves your point??

And for the nth time, you all are probably 100% correct about the difference in height etc etc.  I'm not here to convince you of how you should feel about the differences between the two.  I'm just saying that one FEELS (SUBJECTIVE STATEMENT) significantly taller than the other TO ME (SUBJECTIVE REITERATION).  Your mileage may vary.  In my humble opinion.  That's just my $0.02.  You're very handsome, I'm quite unattractive.  Etc.

[NYC One Roll]

9 hours ago, Purplecycle said:

OMG man, I hope you're OK.

Damn...I am really disappointed in the quality/design of that 'metal' plate and I am really afraid of what might happen if I drop this wheel during my mountain routes. My 18L fell on rocks, tumbled down hills, I even had to hit it with my foot kung-fu style to prevent it going down the mountain -- apart from a few scuffs and two metal plates reinforcing the inner case, it is intact. 

A wheel theoretically made for jumping and offroading should be able to withstand anything that you throw at it...

Stay safe and let us know if you are able to fix it...

 

Edit: @Jack King Song this is the second S18 I see with this type of damage... Any plans to replace that plate with a stronger material?

Changing this metal housing seems like I have to take apart the entire wheel!! Arggghh

 

 

[Feynman]

8 minutes ago, nycommuter69 said:

Changing this metal housing seems like I have to take apart the entire wheel!! Arggghh

 

 

You quite literally do. 

[Steef Klonoa]

I can see what you guys were talking about with that cable rubbing. The casing is already coming off. I didn't even ride it yet. Anyone come up with a way to protect that from rubbing too much? @Jack King Song should we be hammering this cable into our device so it is flush with the frame?

Edited September 18, 2020 by Steef Klonoa

[dsd317]

46 minutes ago, nycommuter69 said:

Changing this metal housing seems like I have to take apart the entire wheel!! Arggghh

 

 

Lol...i thought it was plastic.  Even in the picture it looks like plastic.

[AtlasP]

1 hour ago, Stillhart said:

But why would you post a picture that proves my point and then tell me that the picture is actually wrong and therefore my interpretation of said picture is "bizarre"?  lol   I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!  Why not just post a correct picture that proves your point??

? The same picture demonstrates what I said; here it is with a visual aid. You can even ignore the exact position of the top line/imagine moving it up or down a bit, it's just there as a horizontal reference reconciled against the ground. Unfortunately I don't know of a picture of both production versions side-by-side, but we know their final pedal heights are extremely similar which removes that layer of complexity. (A handle parallel to wheel orientation is only ~2-3in wide/not relevant.)

Edited September 17, 2020 by AtlasP

[Stillhart]

29 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

? The same picture demonstrates what I said; here it is with a visual aid. You can even ignore the exact position of the top line/imagine moving it up or down a bit, it's just there as a horizontal reference reconciled against the ground. Unfortunately I don't know of a picture of both production versions side-by-side, but we know their final pedal heights are extremely similar which removes that layer of complexity. (A handle parallel to wheel orientation is only ~2-3in wide/not relevant.)

Now I remember why I stopped coming around here for a few months.  I'm not going to say the same thing for the third time and have you ignore it yet again.  And since you refuse to agree to disagree when it comes to a subjective topic, I'll just say ok.  You win.  Congratulations.  Have some internet points.

[Feynman]

1 minute ago, Stillhart said:

Now I remember why I stopped coming around here for a few months.  I'm not going to say the same thing for the third time and have you ignore it yet again.  And since you refuse to agree to disagree when it comes to a subjective topic, I'll just say ok.  You win.  Congratulations.  Have some internet points.

Taller schmaller.  The V11 is ugly, and the S18 is sexy af.  Discussion done.

[Shura]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 6:03 PM, redfoxdude said:

I've had fun putting this video together. Data nerds rejoice 😂

Some folks say that a big wheel is basically like suspension, and I put that to the test.

Wonderful video, bro!

As soon as I saw the presentation of KS-S18 back in April I decided straight away - I must purchase it. Then when I saw videos with people riding it another wish came to my mind - to turn a wheel backwards and ride it with suspension looking forward. I don't know why but it stuck in my head since! So now I've got the wheel, did 160km (100 miles) and was ready to try to go on "backwards wheel". Yesterday morning I turned the wheel backwards and rode it to my work for 10km (6 miles). The ride was pretty good!

1). Wobbling was less, probably because the wheel above suspension is wider and my knees were touching the wheel thus allowing me better control of it and did not allow it goes from side to side.

2). The front side (with suspension) became heavier and due to this it was easier to start riding after stop - you just need to lean forward a little bit and you go!

3). The suspension worked almost as good as with normal riding way.

Of course, these are my subjective impressions. Maybe somebody else will ride it that way and have different opinion. Or maybe Redfoxdude can compare riding normal and "backwards wheel" and see if suspension works the same or differently? It would be interesting!

[Beachboy]

8 hours ago, Steef Klonoa said:

I can see what you guys were talking about with that cable rubbing. The casing is already coming off. I didn't even ride it yet. Anyone come up with a way to protect that from rubbing too much?

Same here, but I did beat the cable already so it flush with that slider/axle frame..you will need to push out the spring that cover the cable first  before beating it, after that secure it with electric tape or any tape you can find usefull to cover the cable..

Edited September 18, 2020 by Beachboy

[mrelwood]

So, for taking a 1st batch S18 to use you need a hammer, glue or 2-sided adhesive, an empty coke can, and you need to at least remove a few spacers and of course lube up the suspension.

Any news for actual improvements made for the 2nd batch? The pedal braket now has the block integrated, which seems to help somewhat with the sticky suspension mechanism. Anything else?

[fbhb]

9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Any news for actual improvements made for the 2nd batch? The pedal braket now has the block integrated, which seems to help somewhat with the sticky suspension mechanism. Anything else?

I asked @Jack King Song directly and he said: "What I can say is that, we've looked at the suspension issue from all angles, whether it is the pedal base, or the spacers we've made the necessary adjustments to ensure the best possible suspension experience.", but this does not offer any actual detail as to what exactly they have changed. 

The change to the pedal bracket only came to our knowledge via the first owners noticing the change when some 2nd batch wheels arrived. 

I heard that there is supposed to be a King Song video coming showing how to implement the changes for owners or their dealers to retrofit replacement parts.  To my knowledge, I don't think the full extent of All the changes have been made to the 2nd batch wheels that have been recently received and 3rd batch is more likely where any real differences will be noticed.

But it would be a real help if King Song (@Jack King Song) would actually publish exactly what they have done/when they have done it, to help put owners/prospective owners minds at ease!

Edited September 18, 2020 by fbhb

[dsd317]

33 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Any news for actual improvements made for the 2nd batch? The pedal braket now has the block integrated, which seems to help somewhat with the sticky suspension mechanism. Anything else?

I have 2nd batch S18 (according to ewheels) and have not noticed much difference compared to 1st batch.  Mine still had the removable pedal blocks that I’ve already removed.

The only thing that I found slightly different was no split lock washer on the center linkage bearing, under the large washer that I’ve removed (picture shown in my earlier post).

[Bridgeboy]

On 9/18/2020 at 4:59 AM, dsd317 said:

I have 2nd batch S18 (according to ewheels) and have not noticed much difference compared to 1st batch.  Mine still had the removable pedal blocks that I’ve already removed.

The only thing that I found slightly different was no split lock washer on the center linkage bearing, under the large washer that I’ve removed (picture shown in my earlier post).

I also have 2nd batch (according to eWheels) and I have not removed the blocks at the pedals only because I didn't know that was a thing. Did you notice any improvement upon removing them? Why are they there in the first place? I'm nervous about removing something which appears to be there for some purpose.

EDIT: I actually have the 1st batch S18 I think. I put down my deposit of May 11th. That makes it first batch. 2nd Batch S18s were for orders placed in June. I got confused with my Sherman deposit that I put down exactly 2-months later on July 11th, which makes me 2nd batch for the Veteran Sherman.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Bridgeboy

[FinRider]

4 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

I also have 2nd batch (according to eWheels) and I have not removed the blocks at the pedals only because I didn't know that was a thing. Did you notice any improvement upon removing them? Why are they there in the first place? I'm nervous about removing something which appears to be there for some purpose.

According to KS the block prevents the slider bars to bend from overtightening. You should leave it in place when fastening the pedal hangers and then nock it out.

some wheels will get a bend in the slider tubes when the block is in place, causing a very stiff sliding movement (=stiff suspension movement) so it is recommended to knock it out.

[dsd317]

2 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

I also have 2nd batch (according to eWheels) and I have not removed the blocks at the pedals only because I didn't know that was a thing. Did you notice any improvement upon removing them? Why are they there in the first place? I'm nervous about removing something which appears to be there for some purpose.

Yes.  I did notice improvement after removing those blocks.  Not sure if it was here or facebook or some other online forum, someone said that King Song said those blocks were to prevent over-tightening of pedal hanger bolts.

What i did before removing blocks was disconnect gold suspension linkages so that I can isolate movement to the sliders only.  Then I would push/pull on handle (in lift position) to get a feel of the friction in the slider tubes.  Then I removed blocks and repeat push/pull and noticed less friction in tubes.

Due to lack of QC at King Song, everyone's experience MAY be different.  If you feel you that your suspension is sticking a lot, then try this method to see if it helps.  Remember that there are other factors that cause sticking as well, so try the steps mentioned in these threads, but try them one at a time.  That way you'll know whether those changes were necessary or not.

[Steef Klonoa]

@Bridgeboy I got significant improvement after removing the blocks.

[dsd317]

Just thought I'd share pics of how I access inside hex socket insert without removing shock.  First pic using standard allen wrench.  Would've been easier if I had trimmed off approx. 1/4" (6.35mm) from short end of wrench.

 

Next pic shows a longer allen wrench with ball-end accessing from opposite side, under shock.

 

[Bridgeboy]

5 hours ago, dsd317 said:

Yes.  I did notice improvement after removing those blocks. 

26 minutes ago, Steef Klonoa said:

@Bridgeboy I got significant improvement after removing the blocks.

 

I removed the blocks and also noticed improvement with the smoothness of the suspension. 

I am only judging by standing on the pedals and jumping up and down. I haven't tried disconnecting anything yet to check other areas of potential friction, but the suspension seems to be working pretty good. Though I thought that before and yet now notice significant improvement after removing the blocks, so it does make me wonder if there's still more room for improvement that I don't realize is possible.

If I wasn't so happy with how fun the wheel is to ride as it is now I'd be much more pissed off with the inconsistent and poor QC from Kingsong.

[NOSFET Electric Dreams]

On 9/18/2020 at 7:12 AM, Steef Klonoa said:

I can see what you guys were talking about with that cable rubbing. The casing is already coming off. I didn't even ride it yet. Anyone come up with a way to protect that from rubbing too much? @Jack King Song should we be hammering this cable into our device so it is flush with the frame?

You can use the back of a screw driver to hammer it back into place to keep it flush. 

[fbhb]

29 minutes ago, dsd317 said:

Just thought I'd share pics of how I access inside hex socket insert without removing shock.

@dsd317 have you checked the linkage point where it attaches to the aluminium top housing?  Your hi-res photo looks to show that you may well have the notorious "split spring washers" under the heads of those two bolts? 

If that is the case, you will no doubt find several more "split spring washers" both here and where the linkage arm attaches to the slider pivot point, which should definitely be removed and discarded to prevent damage to the bearings!

Unfortunately, accessing those bolts/pivot points does require a Full Strip Down, but in the long run well worth the effort.

Edited September 19, 2020 by fbhb

[Steef Klonoa]

2 minutes ago, Jack King Song said:

You can use the back of a screw driver to hammer it back into place to keep it flush. 

Is it really an issue? From what I can tell it would just be rubbing against the kuji pad, which doesn't seem to be worn right now.