INMOTION V11 (2020)

[Spinner]

13 minutes ago, Unventor said:

On this I do not agree at all. 

Yes the KS18L/XL are a more compact design. But the tire on the V11 makes it so much easier to tight navigate on super slow speeds. The pedal height add to this and makes it near impossible to scrape on even ground. When riding you don't feel the weight. Lifting up stairs the trolley/fixed handle is so much better balanced and the slim design of the V11 make the heavier wheel feel not as heavy. 

As practical the V11 stands out big time here too with a lot better head and rear light. The built-in stand (yes the wheel can tumble over if ground is uneven or pushed) is super great when trolleying and doing shopping. It is also great if the wheel is wet as it makes the footprint smaller on ground when water run of the wheel/tire and makes sure water do not run into charge ports.

The only thing that speaks in the KS18L/XL favour is:

* similar maintenance.

* long time tested model.

*non-stick on many pla es, so no query.

Thanks Unventor. What about acceleration? How does it compare? Do you need to lean a lot to go faster all of a sudden at moderate speeds? I remember that with the 16x I can just put a little more weight on my toes and boom...

Edited August 20, 2020 by Spinner
autocorrect fail..

[Spinner]

V11 owners hello again. I should change my name to The Undecided or Mr Doubtfire ....

So; about the trolley handle height on the V11. People say it's 86cm high but is that the lower part of the handle (where your fingers bend) or the top of that handle? I ask because I find the trolley on my Super V3S+ too low at around 82cm.

Thanks again. Long live this community!

[Unventor]

Just now, Spinner said:

Thanks Inventor. What about acceleration? How does it compare? Do you need to lean a lot to go faster all of a sudden at moderate speeds? I remember that with the 16x I can just put a little more weight on my toes and boom...

I don't ride on the limits. The KS16X is one of the faster wheels out there. If might be fastest but it comes down to how much you dare to push it. I don't...I value my teeth higher that aggressive riding. 

I am pretty sure the V11 is close to the KS16X. The few times like today when I went shopping in a new area to me, the V11 saved me on 3 different terms. There were a section with very poor bikelanes potholes/bad repairs/manhole covers/leaves covering uneven terrain. Here the suspension is priceless for someone like me with bad knees. 

I had to make a very hard brake as a driver car just didn't think of traffic laws at all. And another that couldn't decide to turn or do u turn or go straight. All these moves on red traffic light for her, made it into a situation where I had to accelerate out of harms way.

Hands signals from me were not happy once....but the V11 complied very good to these things too. Most rides I do are 4-15km. But the V11 just make you want to take the long way around so you get longer ride times. 

It does come at one downside. It is much easier to pick up speed as the V11 is so comfortable and trust inspiring. And here come the good part. I limited mine to 35kmh. But riding on the tiltback/alarm is just way more smoother than my KS18L or KS16X. 

[Spinner]

2 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I don't ride on the limits. The KS16X is one of the faster wheels out there. If might be fastest but it comes down to how much you dare to push it. I don't...I value my teeth higher that aggressive riding. 

I am pretty sure the V11 is close to the KS16X. The few times like today when I went shopping in a new area to me, the V11 saved me on 3 different terms. There were a section with very poor bikelanes potholes/bad repairs/manhole covers/leaves covering uneven terrain. Here the suspension is priceless for someone like me with bad knees. 

I had to make a very hard brake as a driver car just didn't think of traffic laws at all. And another that couldn't decide to turn or do u turn or go straight. All these moves on red traffic light for her, made it into a situation where I had to accelerate out of harms way.

Hands signals from me were not happy once....but the V11 complied very good to these things too. Most rides I do are 4-15km. But the V11 just make you want to take the long way around so you get longer ride times. 

It does come at one downside. It is much easier to pick up speed as the V11 is so comfortable and trust inspiring. And here come the good part. I limited mine to 35kmh. But riding on the tiltback/alarm is just way more smoother than my KS18L or KS16X. 

Thanks

I don't ride on the limits either! I don't think I've ever gone to more than 40kmh. It's just too dangerous, even with protection, but I do like aggressive turning, breaking, and acceleration 

[Zopper]

22 minutes ago, Spinner said:

Thanks Unventor. What about acceleration? How does it compare? Do you need to lean a lot to go faster all of a sudden at moderate speeds? I remember that with the 16x I can just put a little more weight on my toes and boom...

Here you have some comparison with Gotway MSS: https://youtu.be/sNS5GNcW3sM?t=514
EDIT: it doesn't say much about leaning, though. But I think you have to lean a bit more on any 18 inch wheel than on an 16 inch, just because of the physics.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Zopper

[Unventor]

19 minutes ago, Spinner said:

V11 owners hello again. I should change my name to The Undecided or Mr Doubtfire ....

So; about the trolley handle height on the V11. People say it's 86cm high but is that the lower part of the handle (where your fingers bend) or the top of that handle? I ask because I find the trolley on my Super V3S+ too low at around 82cm.

Thanks again. Long live this community!

I just measured my V11. It is 84-86ish cm under the handle where you bend fingers. The reason I am unsure is I only have a sewing measuring tape. So it flexs a little and it is hard to see if it is in right angle too. 

But it is very perfect high to me. It will be good for taller persons too. I have to bend my arm a bit to use it, so how much? I can nearly reach wheel without deploying the trolley. If I lower sideways 2-3" I would be able to walk the wheel without trolley.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Unventor

[Unventor]

3 minutes ago, Zopper said:

Here you have some comparison with Gotway MSS: https://youtu.be/sNS5GNcW3sM?t=514
EDIT: it doesn't say much about leaning, though. But I think you have to lean a bit more on any 18 inch wheel than on an 16 inch, just because of the physics.

It depends on firmware response too. 

[Spinner]

45 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I just measured my V11. It is 84-86ish cm under the handle where you bend fingers. The reason I am unsure is I only have a sewing measuring tape. So it flexs a little and it is hard to see if it is in right angle too. 

But it is very perfect high to me. It will be good for taller persons too. I have to bend my arm a bit to use it, so how much? I can nearly reach wheel without deploying the trolley. If I lower sideways 2-3" I would be able to walk the wheel without trolley.

That's so nice of you, thank you! I think that settles it for me.I guess I'm like Creative Nomad, we both have shorter arms for our height!  I'll wait for another version of the V11. I'm sure I'll regret not having suspension but I know the other one and won't have to swear for 3 hours if I get a flat! Enjoy that superb wheel and thanks again for all your answers

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

I guess some of us just has longer arms. What do you say @mrelwood you are 193cm if I recall right?

I read all the trolley height criticism with my jaw wide open. The V11 trolley is at a perfect height for me. Unventor has a good memory, I am 193cm tall. And while there is not really any extra space, the relatively big valve connector of my electric pump easily fits in to fill the V11.

V11 vs 18XL vs MSX/P:

I am laughing. A comparison like this feels so huomorous to me that I can't even begin to... Oh well. I'll try. I did touch the subject on my first impressions video. Let me try to be civil just for a while, and separate these individual aspects. Which are all just parts of the whole experience, which is the one that matters.

Acceleration and braking:

• MSX firmware is very stiff on all riding modes, which makes it require much more effort to accelerate and brake, especially on the medium and hard modes. Clear loser in this fight.
• The KS 2.0x firmwares are a huge upgrade to the old ones, and very nice to ride with, and they definitely help with accel & brake. All three riding modes are usable.
• V11 vs KS 2.0? I haven't ridden the 18XL in a while, so I can't make a precise comparison. But the V11 has 202 (yes, two-hundred-and-two) riding modes to choose from, so you have better odds by 6633% (yes, six-thousand...) of finding a mode that suits you well enough.

Trolley handle:

• MSX, again, is clearly the worst. Even after 2 years of near daily usage, it still sometimes tries to run away from me, or to twist my wrist or fingers. Horrible.
• 18XL trolley is easy to employ, and being perfectly centered gives you great control. Can't be easily leaned to a wall though, and the two height settings are not that easy to use when the handle gets worn. The handle makes a rattling noise every time you ride down a curb.
• V11 handle is just perfect. Flick the trigger with a single finger and the handle gracefully goes up. The height is perfect for me, the end of the handle is centered so it can lean into a wall, and it doesn't wobble or rattle at all in any position or riding situation. This is the handle that every other manufacturer should learn from.

Noise (all motors are now noiseless enough, so that'll be a tie from me, but there are a lot of other noises):

• 18XL, despite having a silent motor with the 2.0 firmware, gets a distant bottom place here. The handle rattles on curbs or when using it, and what is worst, the wheel beeps rapidly about 10 times in a random pattern when you turn it off, and about 7 times every time it re-establishes the bluetooth connection to your phone. Which happens occasionally during riding as well. Oh, and also when you change a setting in the app. These beeps can't be silenced in any other way than unplugging the beeper that is crucial for critical warnings as well. Horrible.
• MSX beeps once when powered on or off, but starts a constant beeping pattern when the battery gets below 15%, which equals about 36% on the 18XL due to the GW battery going only down to 3.3V. That's why the MSX gets a bad range, no-one wants to ride a constantly beeping wheel. Oh, and the sub-walking speed motor coil cogging is the loudest I've heard.
• V11 has the option to turn off all non-critical sounds. When done so, it doesn't beep for starting up, shutting down, connecting, changing settings, etc. Only when it's actually needed. The wheel is perfectly silent on cobble stones and smaller bumps. Only when you ride down a curb tall enough that the suspension reaches the end of travel, or your feet leave the pedals, does it make a sound. Extremely silent wheel, if the user so wishes.

Turning on a dime:

• 18XL with it's narrow tire needs to be tilted a bit more for tight turns. I need to stand slightly bow legged on the wheel anyway, so steep tilting is cumbersome for me. It loses slightly on this front.
• The MSX has a low contact point at the leg, which makes it easy to tilt. But the wheel is quite wide, so for extremely tight turns I have to bow leg a bit again. But a turn radius of less than 1 metre is still manageable, at least with the MSP tire (C-1488). The MSX original (H-5102), not so much.
• The V11 has very wide pedals and an extremely high ground clearance, so you have the best room for tilting, by a huge margin. The tire is also a tight turning one by itself already, so it is the clear winner for ridiculously tight turns.

Riding comfort (this is where it gets ridiculous):

• MSX simply gets negative comfort points for it's pedal size, dihedral pedal angle, shell shape, side pads, vibrating motor under 35km/h, coil cogging below walking speeds, constant "assisting" tilt angle at speed, accel & brake effort, etc. They simply didn't even try, on any aspect of comfort. Embarrassing.
• 18XL does quite well. The only issue I have with the riding posture is that the pedals are a bit too close to the lens shape body, forcing me to ride a bit bow legged and making the usable pedal width too narrow. Other than that, the riding feel and everything else is well done.
• Or so I used to think. I'm at loss of words on how to describe the V11. It literally floats over any and all imperfections on the road, big and small, the pedals are wide and large and with a perfect medium dihedral angle, the shell sides are smooth, it's contact point is high enough for effortless one-legging, the motor doesn't cog or vibrate at all, and the power delivery is endless yet smooth at every stage. This is not "better than the rest". This is at a level that makes you disregard and laugh at ALL other EUCs ever made. I couldn't have even dreamt up anything anywhere near the V11 level of comfort. Every aspect of comfort on it is just so much better than on any other wheel, especially the S18.

Most V11 reviews I've seen, including my own, express it very clearly: You don't ever want to go back to a non-suspension wheel after riding the V11. Regardless of any specs or individual aspects. Wrong Way said that he now takes the V11 first over his GWs even though he is used to riding much faster than the V11 allows. Now what does that tell you?

Before anyone asks me to compare the S18, please check the S18 main thread from page 111 onwards. Bearings rammed in to peel enough paint to get stuck on, linkages bolted on tight directly against eachother, spring washers pressing against the rotating bearing, and misaligned vertical "slider" tubes. No wonder the suspension does nothing at smaller bumps, and doesn't return to the neutral position after bigger ones. And these are not one offs, this is how they are all put together at the moment. It can be seen on any S18 video. And then KS may lock your wheel up for four days even if you have bought it as legally as you can at the local corner store. Yeah, good luck with that guys.

Note: All of the above are my personal opinions and experiences only, and your's are and will remain different.

Edited August 20, 2020 by mrelwood

[Unventor]

@mrelwood thanks for taking time to put this big list together. 

I am not so good at summing up all the details. I know many think I write too long too. 

So I tried to put out answers more to the point. But sometimes it just takes a post like yours to see why we are so happy about the V11. 

Even in my review link I have been able to put out so much details. 

I know only the msx from what I read and what I seen. But it seems pretty much like what I have seen before. 

It is unfortunate that people are so focused on why not to buy a V11 compared to why we bought it. 

I could say why bother I got my wheel? Main reason here is I do think it is bad enough with fake news but sometimes a rumour can be just as bad. 

It comes back to a question earlier in this thread: are you happy with your V11?

And my reply gets stronger from every ride I do. Ohhh yes I am very happy with my V11. And I can't help comparing it when I ride...thinking ohh this had not been as smooth/comfortable/easy/incident avoided on my previous wheels. It happeds because I am actively using the suspension on the V11. 

[Ádám Szitás]

I agree, mrelwood really explained well the differences and I feel the same about the things he said and I'm sure we could go on and on about every small detail. The best is how all these little things come together and forms into a single wheel.

[Spinner]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

 

I read all the trolley height criticism with my jaw wide open. The V11 trolley is at a perfect height for me. Unventor has a good memory, I am 193cm tall. And while there is not really any extra space, the relatively big valve connector of my electric pump easily fits in to fill the V11.

V11 vs 18XL vs MSX/P:

I am laughing. A comparison like this feels so huomorous to me that I can't even begin to... Oh well. I'll try. I did touch the subject on my first impressions video. Let me try to be civil just for a while, and separate these individual aspects. Which are all just parts of the whole experience, which is the one that matters.

Acceleration and braking:

• MSX firmware is very stiff on all riding modes, which makes it require much more effort to accelerate and brake, especially on the medium and hard modes. Clear loser in this fight.
• The KS 2.0x firmwares are a huge upgrade to the old ones, and very nice to ride with, and they definitely help with accel & brake. All three riding modes are usable.
• V11 vs KS 2.0? I haven't ridden the 18XL in a while, so I can't make a precise comparison. But the V11 has 202 (yes, two-hundred-and-two) riding modes to choose from, so you have better odds by 6633% (yes, six-thousand...) of finding a mode that suits you well enough.

Trolley handle:

• MSX, again, is clearly the worst. Even after 2 years of near daily usage, it still sometimes tries to run away from me, or to twist my wrist or fingers. Horrible.
• 18XL trolley is easy to employ, and being perfectly centered gives you great control. Can't be easily leaned to a wall though, and the two height settings are not that easy to use when the handle gets worn. The handle makes a rattling noise every time you ride down a curb.
• V11 handle is just perfect. Flick the trigger with a single finger and the handle gracefully goes up. The height is perfect for me, the end of the handle is centered so it can lean into a wall, and it doesn't wobble or rattle at all in any position or riding situation. This is the handle that every other manufacturer should learn from.

Noise (all motors are now noiseless enough, so that'll be a tie from me, but there are a lot of other noises):

• 18XL, despite having a silent motor with the 2.0 firmware, gets a distant bottom place here. The handle rattles on curbs or when using it, and what is worst, the wheel beeps rapidly about 10 times in a random pattern when you turn it off, and about 7 times every time it re-establishes the bluetooth connection to your phone. Which happens occasionally during riding as well. Oh, and also when you change a setting in the app. These beeps can't be silenced in any other way than unplugging the beeper that is crucial for critical warnings as well. Horrible.
• MSX beeps once when powered on or off, but starts a constant beeping pattern when the battery gets below 15%, which equals about 36% on the 18XL due to the GW battery going only down to 3.3V. That's why the MSX gets a bad range, no-one wants to ride a constantly beeping wheel. Oh, and the sub-walking speed motor coil cogging is the loudest I've heard.
• V11 has the option to turn off all non-critical sounds. When done so, it doesn't beep for starting up, shutting down, connecting, changing settings, etc. Only when it's actually needed. The wheel is perfectly silent on cobble stones and smaller bumps. Only when you ride down a curb tall enough that the suspension reaches the end of travel, or your feet leave the pedals, does it make a sound. Extremely silent wheel, if the user so wishes.

Turning on a dime:

• 18XL with it's narrow tire needs to be tilted a bit more for tight turns. I need to stand slightly bow legged on the wheel anyway, so steep tilting is cumbersome for me. It loses slightly on this front.
• The MSX has a low contact point at the leg, which makes it easy to tilt. But the wheel is quite wide, so for extremely tight turns I have to bow leg a bit again. But a turn radius of less than 1 metre is still manageable, at least with the MSP tire (C-1488). The MSX original (H-5102), not so much.
• The V11 has very wide pedals and an extremely high ground clearance, so you have the best room for tilting, by a huge margin. The tire is also a tight turning one by itself already, so it is the clear winner for ridiculously tight turns.

Riding comfort (this is where it gets ridiculous):

• MSX simply gets negative comfort points for it's pedal size, dihedral pedal angle, shell shape, side pads, vibrating motor under 35km/h, coil cogging below walking speeds, constant "assisting" tilt angle at speed, accel & brake effort, etc. They simply didn't even try, on any aspect of comfort. Embarrassing.
• 18XL does quite well. The only issue I have with the riding posture is that the pedals are a bit too close to the lens shape body, forcing me to ride a bit bow legged and making the usable pedal width too narrow. Other than that, the riding feel and everything else is well done.
• Or so I used to think. I'm at loss of words on how to describe the V11. It literally floats over any and all imperfections on the road, big and small, the pedals are wide and large and with a perfect medium dihedral angle, the shell sides are smooth, it's contact point is high enough for effortless one-legging, the motor doesn't cog or vibrate at all, and the power delivery is endless yet smooth at every stage. This is not "better than the rest". This is at a level that makes you disregard and laugh at ALL other EUCs ever made. I couldn't have even dreamt up anything anywhere near the V11 level of comfort. Every aspect of comfort on it is just so much better than on any other wheel, especially the S18.

Most V11 reviews I've seen, including my own, express it very clearly: You don't ever want to go back to a non-suspension wheel after riding the V11. Regardless of any specs or individual aspects. Wrong Way said that he now takes the V11 first over his GWs even though he is used to riding much faster than the V11 allows. Now what does that tell you?

Before anyone asks me to compare the S18, please check the S18 main thread from page 111 onwards. Bearings rammed in to peel enough paint to get stuck on, linkages bolted on tight directly against eachother, spring washers pressing against the rotating bearing, and misaligned vertical "slider" tubes. No wonder the suspension does nothing at smaller bumps, and doesn't return to the neutral position after bigger ones. And these are not one offs, this is how they are all put together at the moment. It can be seen on any S18 video. And then KS may lock your wheel up for four days even if you have bought it as legally as you can at the local corner store. Yeah, good luck with that guys.

Note: All of the above are my personal opinions and experiences only, and your's are and will remain different.

Thanks for all these but the fact it I tried holding at 184 cm and it's not comfortable for me. You might have longer arms! 

As for the comparison, it was to an MSuperV3S+, not an MSX. I know I want a suspension wheel eventually (probably next year!) but I'll wait a bit because of:

-changing the innertube on the V11 is hell 

-the trolley is too low. I tried holding my MSuper trolley at a place where it is 84cms high and I feel I have to consciously keep my arm low. I've been spoiled by KS trolleys. 

-I like the LEDs... lol

[GoGeorgeGo]

39 minutes ago, Spinner said:

Thanks for all these but the fact it I tried holding at 184 cm and it's not comfortable for me. You might have longer arms! 

As for the comparison, it was to an MSuperV3S+, not an MSX. I know I want a suspension wheel eventually (probably next year!) but I'll wait a bit because of:

-changing the innertube on the V11 is hell 

-the trolley is too low. I tried holding my MSuper trolley at a place where it is 84cms high and I feel I have to consciously keep my arm low. I've been spoiled by KS trolleys. 

-I like the LEDs... lol

Not sure you will see many more suspension models by next year.  Maaaaybe the v11f and a new 100% offroad specific kingsong wheel.  But realistically its going to be the same 3 options, it will be a while before a new suspension design gets implemented imo. 

 

Im still waiting for the new wheels to include a starter mechanism (like a key).  Theres not much in the way of security on these things and as it grows in popularity more people will know how expensive they are and be able to ride them away. Being forced to trolly it with you everywhere is kind of a bummer.  Its like taking the seat off your bike, sure someone could steal it still, but they need to carry it and replace the seat in order to resell it or use it themselves.  I don't feel comfortable chaining my wheel to a bike rack without some secondary deterant physically in place on the wheel

[Spinner]

17 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Not sure you will see many more suspension models by next year.  Maaaaybe the v11f and a new 100% offroad specific kingsong wheel.  But realistically its going to be the same 3 options, it will be a while before a new suspension design gets implemented imo. 

 

Im still waiting for the new wheels to include a starter mechanism (like a key).  Theres not much in the way of security on these things and as it grows in popularity more people will know how expensive they are and be able to ride them away. Being forced to trolly it with you everywhere is kind of a bummer.  Its like taking the seat off your bike, sure someone could steal it still, but they need to carry it and replace the seat in order to resell it or use it themselves.  I don't feel comfortable chaining my wheel to a bike rack without some secondary deterant physically in place on the wheel

Indeed. That's what's great about these wheels, though, you CAN carry it with you inside in places that don't even accept folding bicycles. These devices are incredible. Still amazing that so few people ride them!

Edited August 20, 2020 by Spinner

[mike_bike_kite]

14 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Im still waiting for the new wheels to include a starter mechanism (like a key).  Theres not much in the way of security on these things and as it grows in popularity more people will know how expensive they are and be able to ride them away. Being forced to trolly it with you everywhere is kind of a bummer.  Its like taking the seat off your bike, sure someone could steal it still, but they need to carry it and replace the seat in order to resell it or use it themselves.  I don't feel comfortable chaining my wheel to a bike rack without some secondary deterant physically in place on the wheel

Most Kingsong wheels have an immobilise function in the app that stops the wheel from balancing until turned off. Many of the 18" wheels allow you to use a U-lock to lock them to a railing etc - the danger though is if some kid comes along and presses the on button - does the wheel break trying to right itself? Even a key on the electrical system is unlikely to be a very safe solution as they'd almost certainly by an off the shelf keyed switch - the thief could just later swap the keyed switch for a normal switch. Here in London, bicycles chained to railings are stolen all the time, so I feel much happier taking my wheel with me. Obviously everyone's use case is different though ...

[mrelwood]

 

1 hour ago, Spinner said:

As for the comparison, it was to an MSuperV3S+, not an MSX.

Sure, but I’ve been riding the MSX for 2 years, and the V3 only for a few times. I’m sure you already know the differences there are between the V3 and MSX.

1 hour ago, Spinner said:

-changing the innertube on the V11 is hell

Say the tire change takes 3 hours instead of just the 1 of your dream wheel. You save 2 hours perhaps once a year. Or 3 years if you Goop or Slime up the tube. How big of a deal it really is? Isn’t it a bit like riding a Trabant instead of a Mercedes since the antenna is a bit easier to pop off for a wash?

1 hour ago, Spinner said:

I've been spoiled by KS trolleys.

I hope you get to try the S18 trolley at some point. Spoiled alright, but the wrong way around.

I would be extremely happy using the V11 as my only wheel even if it had no trolley at all. Or even a carrying handle. Or if it took me a full day to replace the tube. Those are so incredibly minor things compared to how riding one transforms the very nature of me being present out there in the world instead of just scanning the ground continuously.

 But I do realize that the experience is something that just can’t be understood until one gets to ride one for half an hour or so. Just like riding an EUC was in the first place.

[Unventor]

28 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Most Kingsong wheels have an immobilise function in the app that stops the wheel from balancing until turned off. Many of the 18" wheels allow you to use a U-lock to lock them to a railing etc - the danger though is if some kid comes along and presses the on button - does the wheel break trying to right itself? Even a key on the electrical system is unlikely to be a very safe solution as they'd almost certainly by an off the shelf keyed switch - the thief could just later swap the keyed switch for a normal switch. Here in London, bicycles chained to railings are stolen all the time, so I feel much happier taking my wheel with me. Obviously everyone's use case is different though ...

Inmotion have transport lock via app too. It works similar by disabling the balancing function. 

As of bring you with you....

Now the V11 has a solid lift handle you could chain or U-lock that. But I find it much easier to bring the wheel with me. Some wheels are better than others in this aspect as they are more compact and weight less. But here the V10F is still a valid option for this it is part reason why I bought it in November. It serves a use I didn't have at the time while my other 2 wheels needed repair. 

[Unventor]

10 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

But I do realize that the experience is something that just can’t be understood until one gets to ride one for half an hour or so. Just like riding an EUC was in the first place.

I don't think you can argue this. It is more if you desire the V11 or not. 

Now the desire comes from trying or seeing what other people report and that is why I made those clip despite the poor visual quality. 

When I look st your long and great review you had similar experience. 

I have yet to see any one visual showing they are too tall for the trolley. As for the tire change that is one thing changing tube but it not always necessary as you said slime or goop or similar can fix this mostly. Of you like your wheel you will find time to fix no matter if it take 1 or 3 hours to do. And you get fast at it every time you do it too. 

[Spinner]

25 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

Sure, but I’ve been riding the MSX for 2 years, and the V3 only for a few times. I’m sure you already know the differences there are between the V3 and MSX.

Say the tire change takes 3 hours instead of just the 1 of your dream wheel. You save 2 hours perhaps once a year. Or 3 years if you Goop or Slime up the tube. How big of a deal it really is? Isn’t it a bit like riding a Trabant instead of a Mercedes since the antenna is a bit easier to pop off for a wash?

I hope you get to try the S18 trolley at some point. Spoiled alright, but the wrong way around.

I would be extremely happy using the V11 as my only wheel even if it had no trolley at all. Or even a carrying handle. Or if it took me a full day to replace the tube. Those are so incredibly minor things compared to how riding one transforms the very nature of me being present out there in the world instead of just scanning the ground continuously.

 But I do realize that the experience is something that just can’t be understood until one gets to ride one for half an hour or so. Just like riding an EUC was in the first place.

I only mentioned the MSuperV3 because it's much softer than the MSX. I remember trying the MSX and it felt like a bomb 👍

As for the trolley, I know it sounds ridiculous as a reason not to get this wheel but I like a wheel that's fully integrated to my daily activities, like it's a part of me, only more plasticky lol. So if the trolley height doesn't feel organic for my apparently short arms, I spend 2000$US on an older model and wait for some changes on the V11. Yep, I've always been great at saving money... 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Spinner

[Tryptych]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

This is at a level that makes you disregard and laugh at ALL other EUCs ever made

Strong words! Thanks for the comparison it was interesting. I don't understand why anyone would buy an 18XL (or any Kingsong) at the moment.

 

[Tryptych]

10 hours ago, onecho said:

Well, we do have the same dealer! It still seems inconsistent with what @Stuartl ‘s dealer is saying. 

Smartwheel sent an email to all V11 customers today confirming they expect it at the end of Sept. Anyone know what eWheels is saying? Stuartl is in the EU and I imagine that is a different situation, the boat to North America is slower I guess.

[UniVehje]

9 hours ago, Spinner said:

As for the trolley, I know it sounds ridiculous as a reason not to get this whee

I don’t mean to force you into buying the wheel, I’m not selling them. But to me this just feels like a very silly reason. I get that the trolley is a big deal. I wouldn’t want to use a bad one either, I use it all the time. But for me this V11 trolley is absolutely the best I’ve ever used. By a wide margin. And I’m coming from the legendary 18XL as previous wheel. Granted, I’m short. But In a few seconds I could think of several mods to lengthen the handle that take 5 minutes to make and cost 5 euros. 
 

Now the LEDs on the other hand... thats a great reason 

Edited August 21, 2020 by UniVehje

[eve]

10 hours ago, Creative Nomad said:

5”11

You look taller on video! 

Great video btw! First one that didnt make me cringe.  (I cant help it, sorry. I still like the other videos even if they do.)

Are you gonna be doing more V11 videos soon? 

[Creative Nomad]

8 hours ago, Spinner said:

Thanks, Creative Nomad. My thoughts toward the 18Xl only come from my experience with the 18L. I also had a 16x (had to leave it in storage in Paris in March!). Sold the 18L but I remember it being so comfortable and fun to casually carve with. You know when you lean and put your weight on your heels in that turn the smoothness is so great and I didn't have it with my 16x because it was "too" responsive. I like a little lag but not too much. I feel my MSuper V3S+ drives a bit like a bus sometimes. You're saying an 18XL would feel like a downgrade from an MSuper V3S+? Isn't it more reactive? By reactive I mean the pedals don't need to move downwards as much to get some acceleration.

When you write that the 18XL would be more nimble than the V11, is it because of its narrower tire and its overall weight? Thanks!

Now that’s a painfully long time to leave a wheel! Are you from France then? 😁 

If the XL was going to be your first wheel, i’d say by all means go for it but based on what you’ve said and the comparative specs it’s difficult to not see it as anything other than a downgrade specifically in relation to power, speed, and if memory serves me right range.

Yes exactly, narrow body and weight. The V11 is fun to ride but not to carry! Decisions, decisions right lol let us know which one you go for.

[Creative Nomad]

9 hours ago, Unventor said:

On this I do not agree at all. 

Yes the KS18L/XL are a more compact design. But the tire on the V11 makes it so much easier to tight navigate on super slow speeds. The pedal height add to this and makes it near impossible to scrape on even ground. When riding you don't feel the weight. Lifting up stairs the trolley/fixed handle is so much better balanced and the slim design of the V11 make the heavier wheel feel not as heavy. 

As practical the V11 stands out big time here too with a lot better head and rear light. The built-in stand (yes the wheel can tumble over if ground is uneven or pushed) is super great when trolleying and doing shopping. It is also great if the wheel is wet as it makes the footprint smaller on ground when water run of the wheel/tire and makes sure water do not run into charge ports.

The only thing that speaks in the KS18L/XL favour is:

* similar maintenance.

* long time tested model.

* on-stock in many places, so no query.

Here’s where clarification and context is key as to why i said the XL excels in nimbleness and practicality. This is heavily down to how I ride and where. Take for instance, off road trails. I tend to ride them fast and relish turning corners equally so. However, the V11’s weight distribution makes it feel top heavy so when i round those corners quickly (not slowly as mentioned) it has felt like i was going to topple over. 

This effect around corners isn’t found in slimmer wheels. Their ergonomics and weight distribution prevents it. Unless one takes it to the 45 degree angle cut off. I can’t actually remember needing to navigate slowly on tight turns on the V11 so i’ll have to seek some out and try in comparison to a slimmer wheel to test whether or not the nimbleness is negligible.

 

Yes agree completely the pedal height is perfect to avoid scraping but in the above instances that was superfluous as it was neither a help nor hindrance.

 

In terms of weight, now here I definitely disagree but after reading what you’ve written i have a strong feeling i know why. I’m always conscious of the weight of the V11 when riding and i think this is solely due to my actual weight and frame. I spoke to another woman of smaller build than me and she said she had to throw her weight into the turns more too. Since you don’t feel that nor have i even heard anyone speak about it, it seems like men’s natural broader physique/ strength plays an advantage to eliminate that issue.
 

Lifting up stairs, this will be down to an individuals strength. Lifting down/ up stairs is fine but when i have to place it in the boot of my car not so much. Other than the handle there isn’t a good gripping point. Either my fingers get caught in the large rim by the tyre when i lift it or I grab it by the pedal which just feels awkward. So it’s more cumbersome than the XL.

 

I have to climb up parts of a mountain with it later this year so this is a big work around i have to figure out.
 

The trolley handle of the V11 is my biggest gripe. When i walk I do so briskly and the length of the handle really hinders that. So i’m forced to slow my pace in order to navigate the wheel properly to prevent it from swaying. Also i’ve realised that i have to push the handle down firmly when closing otherwise riders can expect to experience a little surprise when riding.

To all your other points yes, yes, and yes. It must be said though, none of the above are deal breakers (to me anyway) I would still readily recommend the V11 over the XL but that doesn’t negate that other wheels are more efficient in specific elements of the riding experience.