INMOTION V11 (2020)

[Chriull]

56 minutes ago, Tinkererboi said:

Is there a reason why manufacturers have not started adding a warranty card that is only valid if signed by the authorised dealer, just like how it is done in many other industries? Could even add an additional sticker on the wheel saying "Warranty void unless signed by Authorised Dealer".

As far as i understand warranty, it is a promise between contractional partners. Enforced and supported by local consumer protection laws for end users.

In case of EUCs our contractual partner is the reseller. So the sales receipt is the warranty card. He is responsible to bear the legal obligations of the consumer proction law like warranty!

Often, with distribution networks it could be/is organized that the manufacturer obliges himself to take over warranty and repairs, but this is an internal agreement between reseller and the manufacturer.

Especially the importer of international goods is responsibly for any manufacturer conformity declarations needed for products resold in a local market.(1)

So any support inmotion (or ks, gotway, ...) gives to any customer who bought via aliexpress, online shop or local reseller is purely voluntarely! They have no obligation (if not agreed with the reseller), but maybe the desire to support the users of their products and make them happy.

This is, in lay terms, how i know the concepts from continental europe. But since the law system (civil law) differs greatly from others (common/case law as in US,UK,Australia, ?parts of Asia?,...) this sales/contract/consumer protection/warranty obligations and implications could differ greatly, too?

Edit: (1) Would be interesting who in case of an aliexpress sale is the importer of the product, bearing the legal obligations of the conformity declarations!? In case of local aliexpress warehouses these legal entities? Could they also be made liable for warranty issues? Or are the just an indepedend distribution partner handling logistics, duties, etc?

Edited August 18, 2020 by Chriull

[mrelwood]

43 minutes ago, Lefteris said:

That the wheels sold from Chinese sellers won't connect to EU app..

Only the ones who sell mainland units. Some sellers do sell international models.

Just a few slow motion clips about me trying various shock pressures. NOT to be used as a guide!

 

[Chriull]

15 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Only the ones who sell mainland units. Some sellers do sell international models.

Seems to be some gamble which version one gets? And the statement 

3 hours ago, Inmotion Global said:

For now, there are two version INMOTION wheels. Mainland China version and Outside Mainland China Version. For outside mainland China version, it can't be connected to inmotion app. The reason why we set up the rule before is that first, those who selling mainland China version can't offer decent after-sale service. They are just resellers. You can't even call them a distributor from the angle of providing the after-sales service the customer deserved. Second, it will destroy our global distribution network, to some degree.

sounds like Inmotion tries that aliexpress sellers won't get (easily) international versions.

Don't know if Inmotion wheels are shipped locked and can be unlocked without the app?

And how default tiltback speed is set - with which one has to.live.

Calibration should become a topic over time, too.

Seems like ?all? of this can be done with third party apps by now? But i don't know anything about the "inmotion system."

[Tinkererboi]

56 minutes ago, Chriull said:

So any support inmotion (or ks, gotway, ...) gives to any customer who bought via aliexpress, online shop or local reseller is purely voluntarely! They have no obligation (if not agreed with the reseller), but maybe the desire to support the users of their products and make them happy.

For sure, manufacturers have no obligation to support customers directly. That is what we pay the middleman (Authorised Dealers) for. The dealer's markup is supposed to cover their man hours for after-sales support and the like.

According to my interpretation of KS's statements over the past year, some customers do not understand this and keep bugging them for free support, so they would rather prevent customers from buying the wheel in the first place than reject their request for fear of losing their reputation.

However don't you think all this could be avoided if manufacturers make it clear that support is not their responsibility to begin with, hence the need for a warranty card and stickers. This method will certainly get more support from the community than whatever KS was trying to do.

[mike_bike_kite]

19 minutes ago, Tinkererboi said:

The dealer's markup is supposed to cover their man hours for after-sales support and the like.

Why not just leave it to the buyer to decide if they want to pay for that after sales support? At least having AliExpress and local dealers means the customer has a choice. It also makes it fairly clear what they're paying for local support. Doing it this way would also remove the confusion and complexity of having different parameters/software running on essentially the same EUC. I do agree though with the comment above saying that you'd have to be quite brave to buy any of these new suspension wheels without after sales support.

[onizukagto]

1 hour ago, Lefteris said:

That the wheels sold from Chinese sellers won't connect to EU app..

I heard you can still connect with EUC World, darknessbot and other third party apps. (Correct me if I'm wrong?) 

You just won't be able to use the official app, you can still use the EUC. Just don't expect to get any warranty and any support from Inmotion. This is reflected by being denied access to official Inmotion app. 

 

[UniVehje]

16 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Why not just leave it to the buyer to decide if they want to pay for that after sales support? At least having AliExpress and local dealers means the customer has a choice. It also makes it fairly clear what they're paying for local support. Doing it this way would also remove the confusion and complexity of having different parameters/software running on essentially the same EUC. I do agree though with the comment above saying that you'd have to be quite brave to buy any of these new suspension wheels without after sales support.

Have you ever heard any product being sold like that? Why make a completely new distribution system for EUCs? There's really nothing new with the system and it's been like this for a long time. This was not an announcement for a new policy and it's nothing like Kingsong locking up old wheels retroactively. I've never heard of an Inmotion wheel being locked up or not working in Europe. Inmotion even has their own store on AliExpress. 

Anyway, back to the topic of V11. 

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, Lefteris said:

That the wheels sold from Chinese sellers won't connect to EU app..

Now that is not entirely correct. 

Domestic wheels will not. If the sell global version you have no issues. 

People are really not paying attention to this. The reason why this problem occur is rouge resellers wanting to make easy cash and not informing whatcyhey are selling. These resellers undermine the possibility to get a global distribution network ensuring faster spare parts and more wide spread knowledge of EUCs. 

It is about the bigger picture here, not just meme attitude.

[Sentient]

So is this move by IM same as locksong corporate behavior?

No access to IM app means no way to calibrate the wheel.  The wheel may be almost unrideable after a bit of time - or maybe not to be used right out the box? Not sure?

Plus will all the features in the IM app will be unusable to those who purchased via aliexpress?  Is this a new policy?- I have not heard about it. 

 

[Chriull]

1 minute ago, Sentient said:

who purchased via aliexpress?

Only if the sold wheel is one determined for the domestic chinese market.

49 minutes ago, Unventor said:

The reason why this problem occur is rouge resellers wanting to make easy cash and not informing whatcyhey are selling

 

[Zopper]

31 minutes ago, Sentient said:

So is this move by IM same as locksong corporate behavior?

No access to IM app means no way to calibrate the wheel.  The wheel may be almost unrideable after a bit of time - or maybe not to be used right out the box? Not sure?

Plus will all the features in the IM app will be unusable to those who purchased via aliexpress?  Is this a new policy?- I have not heard about it. 

 

No. KS began bricking old and already sold wheels, later they changed it to "ok, we will unlock wheels sold before we began doing this". And most importantly, they are locking the wheel immediately. If you have such KS wheel and someone else connects to it with the KS app, it will get locked on the spot and you won't be even able to get home. No way around it.

IM just won't to connect their app. You can use 3rd party apps to calibrate*, and the wheel won't ever get locked just because someone accidentally connected the app. Thats a pretty big difference. It's not ideal, but it's a much better approach.

(*) If the 3rd party apps can do it - dunno, I didn't need to calibrate yet either of my two wheels which have close to 3k km together.

And lastly, it's not a new policy, it's here since V10/V10F at least.

[mike_bike_kite]

1 hour ago, UniVehje said:

Anyway, back to the topic of V11. 

After over 100 pages on the topic, I think we're allowed to digress a little bit.

[FinRider]

2 hours ago, Sentient said:

So is this move by IM same as locksong corporate behavior?

No access to IM app means no way to calibrate the wheel.  The wheel may be almost unrideable after a bit of time - or maybe not to be used right out the box? Not sure?

Plus will all the features in the IM app will be unusable to those who purchased via aliexpress?  Is this a new policy?- I have not heard about it. 

 

I have argued this in the KS thread and it is indeed disapointing to see that Inmotion is starting to behave similar to Locksong. It is however understandable as the EUC manufacturers have different models for different markets. The weels intended for the domestic market are not approved for export (eg no CE/DOT certification).  Locksong indicates this with the letter “P” designation in the serialnumber, I do not know how inmotion does this. 
 

The sellers at Ali etc. have created a system where they are able to sell/ship/import and deliver an EUC to a buyer without paying the associated import duties and sales tax. Hence the cheaper price for the buyer. 
 

The onus however lies with the buyer, as most of us should be smart enough to realize that these ‘grey import’ wheels have not had the import duty and VAT/Sales tax applied to them. I guess this should now serve as the buyer beware notice. 
 

I just wish the EUC manufacturers would have made a new model name for the EUCs intended for the domestic market, like V11C or S18C, then everone would now that they are not ‘the same wheels’ and would understand to stay clear of them... thats how the car manufacturers so it. 

[BondZero07]

Then if i’ve good understand (sorry for my english), InMotion never lock the wheel and only official app doesn’t work.

If by mistake i open the official app from InMotion, no lock.

But no access to calibration and some options ... i’m a premium member of EUC World with full access like AVAS ... With this app, i can access all options of the V11 or not ?

Calibration OK, mode transport desactivated  ... ?

[UniVehje]

47 minutes ago, FinRider said:

and it is indeed disapointing to see that Inmotion is starting to behave similar to Locksong.

AFAIK they have not just started, it’s a long standing policy and they just reiterated it when asked about it. And it’s only similar in that there are two different version for China and globally. They are not remotely locking old wheels. 

47 minutes ago, FinRider said:

I just wish the EUC manufacturers would have made a new model name for the EUCs intended for the domestic market, like V11C or S18C, then everone would now that they are not ‘the same wheels’ and would understand to stay clear of them... thats how the car manufacturers so it. 

Yes, this is a good idea. 

[UniVehje]

32 minutes ago, BondZero07 said:

Then if i’ve good understand (sorry for my english), InMotion never lock the wheel and only official app doesn’t work.

If by mistake i open the official app from InMotion, no lock.

But no access to calibration and some options ... i’m a premium member of EUC World with full access like AVAS ... With this app, i can access all options of the V11 or not ?

Calibration OK, mode transport desactivated  ... ?

In my 2.5+ years being active on this forum I have never seen a post about locked Inmotion wheel. Inmotion has their own Ali shop and there are plenty of Ali, ebay etc. resellers. It’s possible that all the reseller really are selling the global version, even from China. Inmotion is the most popular brand in sales numbers and I would think we’d have heard about it if there were wheels that won’t connect to the app or cannot be calibrated. 

V11 is still only partly supported by the third party apps but I don’t think it’s because of restrictions. 

[Vagrant Sneaker]

So just wanted to share an update on my settings for the V11 suspension.
 

I weigh 190lbs and I’m 6 feet tall...
 

When I got my V11 I went by the suggested diagram settings INMOTION has labeled on the pedal. I just used it as a guide and I started at,

55 PSI - x 120 + This had a Ping Pong effect 
55 PSI - x 110 + This had a Ping Pong effect
50 PSI - x 100 + This was more cushioned (like this)

Now I ended up at 45 PSi - x 90 PSI and I’m liking this so far. Gonna keep it like that for the next few rides, but it feels like a winner for me. I tested this on a few errands yesterday and one that took me on a decent ride to the supermarket. The shopping actually added like another 10Lbs-12Lbs to my weight because I store my goods in my backpack. Riding back home I encountered a bunch of different cracks and potholes to see how it would do and it was much better from when I originally had it. Even going up or coming off side walks felt much better; My max speed was about 15-18 mph.  V11 was eating everything up pretty damn good. 

I will say that I definitely need some side pads for grip and support. Hopefully INMOTION shows us what they have coming out before I look at other options. 

So now I’m thinking if you go Off-roading, would you have to change the suspension again???Guess that’s something to think about. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Vagrant Sneaker

[UniVehje]

13 minutes ago, Vagrant Sneaker said:

So now I’m thinking if you go Off-roading, would you have to change the suspension again???Guess that’s something to think about. 

I’ve been thinking about this, too. But then I realized that I’ve never changed my suspension settings on my previous wheels either!  I changed my riding style. Sure, if you expect the suspension to do it all, it’s better to adjust it. But I think I will just find the perfect setting and use it for every kind of riding. The only thing I will change is the tire pressure. 

[Tinkererboi]

So in practice, many of you have bought aliexpress inmotion wheels but have never experienced the app refusing to connect?

And those who did experience this were able to do everything anyways using other apps anyways (calibration, pedal angle, go home mode are some that I know of) so it was never a big enough issue to talk about?

[h3X]

18 minutes ago, Tinkererboi said:

many of you have bought aliexpress inmotion wheels but have never experienced the app refusing to connect

My V8 was bought from AliExpress and has always connected to the inmotion official app just fine.

[DjPanJan]

Great video and comparasion non suspension vs suspension EUC. V11 Have problem with 40 degree climbs maybe because no powerpads.

 

[UniVehje]

2 hours ago, Tinkererboi said:

So in practice, many of you have bought aliexpress inmotion wheels but have never experienced the app refusing to connect?

I also had a V8 from the cheapest shop in Ali at the time. No problems with the app. 

[Gustesta]

Please, I kindly ask to a V11 owner to post his weight and best psi suspension settings.  

I'm 200 pounds 6'2 - What settings should I go for?

Many thanks!

[z3n]

4 hours ago, FinRider said:

I just wish the EUC manufacturers would have made a new model name for the EUCs intended for the domestic market, like V11C or S18C, then everone would now that they are not ‘the same wheels’ and would understand to stay clear of them... thats how the car manufacturers so it. 

Almost all EUC manufacturers did that already in the past. Ninebot did that with their legendary E+ for global market and C, C+, E for domestic Chinese market. Inmotion did that with their V3 series, V3 Pro for global market and V3/V3S for domestic Chinese market. Kingsong and Gotway also did that with their old product series (sorry couldn't recall the exact number/series). Why didn't they continue to do that? Because it just didn't work that way.

[UniVehje]

10 minutes ago, Gustesta said:

Please, I kindly ask to a V11 owner to post his weight and best psi suspension settings.  

I'm 200 pounds 6'2 - What settings should I go for?

Many thanks!

I’m still searching for the right settings. 

I’m 72-74 kg riding weight and just tested neg 50 PSI and pos 90 PSI and it felt very good. But I would next test something like 35-70.