Inmotion V13 Speculation

[Mango]

V13 doesn’t need a V11/V12 style kickstand as it has those front and rear guards.

[mrelwood]

Just now, Mango said:

V13 doesn’t need a V11/V12 style kickstand as it has those front and rear guards.

They are a bit narrow though. The V11 stand is already too unstable for simply a windy day, so for a 22" wheel to stay upright it would need the parking knobs installed on the vertical bars.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

V13 doesn’t need a V11/V12 style kickstand as it has those front and rear guards.

 

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

They are a bit narrow though.

The beauty of the front and rear bumpers on the V13 is that, there are practically no limits as to what can be attached to them. A stable stand requires 3 points of contact. For an euc, one is coming from the tire contact patch, and attachments on the bumper can provide the other two. And of course the width separation of the attachment points that contact the ground can be wider than the width of the two bumper rails.

Having said that, the design of euc stands are evolving, and it is early yet in its evolution. It would be way cool if Inmotion can come up something innovative. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by techyiam

[Paul g]

 

Wrong Way  

 

[techyiam]

I am starting suspect the V13 suspension might not have rising rate links. If we look at the V13 renderings that were recently leaked, we can see that the suspension pieces are all hidden from view. But if you look at the space on top of the tire, but is still obscured from view by the top cover, and the battery pack, there just isn't enough room to fit rising rate links. Even a rear view of the V13 doesn't reveal suspension components. 

I am thinking, either Inmotion is using a simple direct actuation link with a horizontally mounted shock, as shown in an earlier leaked photo, or a refined version of the V11 suspension. The latter seems plausible because at the bottom of the sliders are two knobs. Perhaps one is a valve for adding or removing air in the air spring, and the other is for rebound damping adjustments?

Edited July 27, 2022 by techyiam

[JMX]

What about electronic active shock absorbers - possible in an EUC ?

 

[techyiam]

39 minutes ago, JMX said:

What about electronic active shock absorbers - possible in an EUC ?

 

I think you need to go back a decade or two to understand where euc is at, at the moment, when it comes to suspension. 

For example, @GoGeorgeGo revealed that  his brand new out of the box EX20S has a shock that leaked. And it didn't sound like it was only due to lack of QC. Begode was telling him, they got another supplier. It is possible that some department store suspension bikes have better shocks. People complained that their shocks weren't branded. So Begode slap a Begode sticker on it. Additionally, some people are buying take-offs shocks for their euc's. Take off parts are parts that are usually parts removed from a new bike, to be replaced by upgraded parts.  

Some owners are designing their own suspension links for their Master. Some are either modifying, or making their own sliders for the S22.

The stiction is so high on the S22, you may not need a damper. You may get away with just the spring. And you want to talk about what, electronic, active; you may be in the wrong decade.

Edited July 27, 2022 by techyiam

[meepmeepmayer]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

People complained that their shocks weren't branded. So Begode slap a Begode sticker on it.

[Unventor]

On 7/26/2022 at 11:59 AM, techyiam said:

What I am puzzled about is how did the design defect of the driver board in the V12 managed to get all the way into production. 

This I do not know. So putting on a guessing-hat this is how I think it happened. 

I know from V11 that they (almost) never had an issue until a certain point in time after the first problems surfacing from V12. After that several people wit either V12 and V11 had mosfet problems. 

I waited a few months on a new drive board and it worked for 500m then it died on my V11. I burned the first board during a tire change. Totally my fault. 

I think Inmotion like many others couldn't source enough mosfet that had best in class test but they didn't know the new batches didn't keep up to same standard. 

The V12 had too much focus on size of design vs room to improve so it was much more pronee to mosfet quality issues. 

They learned from this and their design language will be different going forward. The Challanger is the first in this new way of thinking from Inmotion. 

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, techyiam said:

I am starting suspect the V13 suspension might not have rising rate links.

That is off course possible. Even in the rendering though the wheel does have a good 2-3 inches of space on top of the center of the tire. And the rear of the shell has maybe 4-5":

The patent application is off course just a draft when it comes to aspects and measurements, but even that one only reaches maybe 1.5 or 2 inches above the horizontal plate that could be considered the top of the wheel well:

Coincidentally, 5" seems to be the shortest standard rear shock size.

I'm sure Inmotion could pull it off.

 

5 hours ago, techyiam said:

at the bottom of the sliders are two knobs. Perhaps one is a valve for adding or removing air in the air spring, and the other is for rebound damping adjustments?

A rebound adjustment next to a thin shock tube doesn't make much sense though. Having a remote adjustment like that would be rather challenging to manufacture, and prone to failures even from a small kiss from a rock. Since the adjustment is often fixed at the other end of the tube, why not put it there? It would be easier to adjust as well.

Besides, neither of the circles at the bottom are at the center of the possible vertical air shock, which would make even the main valve a bit of a nightmare to manufacture.

My guess is that they are related to a pedal height adjustment.

[Unventor]

Because someone filed for a patent none do not need to use it. And if Inmotion choose to use it, that is not the same that the Challanger is the wheel it was intended to be the model of this design. 

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

Free spin is 88 mph they almost have to name it after something from the movie back to the future ..🤣

[UniVehje]

Some offtopic chat cleaned to new thread here: 

 

please stay on topic and keep it easy on volunteer moderators. 

[That Guy]

Interesting whether the final product will have the rim and the bars painted orange:

In the colour-coding for V12 orange means HT.

[techyiam]

9 hours ago, Unventor said:

The V12 had too much focus on size of design vs room to improve so it was much more pronee to mosfet quality issues. 

I interpret this as Inmotion scaling up the design from 84V to 100.8V, instead of re-engineering the design to work at 100.8V with good margins. But they have move from this now. It sounds like they have learned a painfully expensive lesson. Having said that, I am impressed with how well the warranty board works. As I have said before, I look forward to the release of their V13.

[onizukagto]

31 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I interpret this as Inmotion scaling up the design from 84V to 100.8V, instead of re-engineering the design to work at 100.8V with good margins. But they have move from this now. It sounds like they have learned a painfully expensive lesson. Having said that, I am impressed with how well the warranty board works. As I have said before, I look forward to the release of their V13.

Hearing a pessimist like you, praising inmotion is scary. 

Please don't jinx the V13, it's too early....

 

Bring it back on topic, I've noticed the lack of "padding" and some, suspicious "indent lid" at the top of the side panels.

Maybe hiding fasteners to remove it? 

So no need to rip off useless pads to get to screws? But it'll be very out of character to not have to remove a number of screws around the peripheral of the side panels. 

Unless this is just a cosmetic panel that can be replace, so you remove this one first, then second layer has peripheral screws securing the bettery. 

Maybe on this second layer you can detach the cords to the hollow motor and remove the wheel for tyre change? As this second layer is the real IPXX it didn't really matter how easy the first layer is removed. 

If it is true, that's a pretty good change to inmotion assembly format, while it's not extremely user friendly, just having to remove one layer from a fasteners cluster at the top centre is great. 

All speculation though. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by onizukagto
Adding to the topic

[techyiam]

9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

That is off course possible. Even in the rendering though the wheel does have a good 2-3 inches of space on top of the center of the tire. And the rear of the shell has maybe 4-5":

 

At the outset, I am only basing on the patent application images that someone posted. I have not been privileged to any actual V13 images.

With that said, I would disagree. Madpack showed a rendering of the rear view of the wheel in his video. No suspension components can be seen. The suspension extends when unloaded. The image does not show a rider on it. Even if the rendering is technically inaccurate, there is still not enough room.

 

9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The patent application is off course just a draft when it comes to aspects and measurements, but even that one only reaches maybe 1.5 or 2 inches above the horizontal plate that could be considered the top of the wheel well:

 

9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Coincidentally, 5" seems to be the shortest standard rear shock size.

I'm sure Inmotion could pull it off.

Irrelevant since there simply isn't enough room to house the linkages. Don't forget about the taillight housing and the depression for the trolley handle. All this pushes the whole suspension assemblage towards the center, and reduce height clearances.

 

However, this suspension linkage design is quite interesting, the shock is actuated at both ends simultaneously. Usually, this is the preferred action.

[Tawpie]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

the shock is actuated at both ends simultaneously.

Seems like that reduces the available travel for the wheel since the shock is getting compressed on both ends? Of course, maxing out the wheel travel may not be the objective... I can see it making for a cushier ride. Faster rebound too. Street setup?

[mangorides]

3 hours ago, That Guy said:

Interesting whether the final product will have the rim and the bars painted orange:

In the colour-coding for V12 orange means HT.

I hope it would be orange, I love the colour and it really gives much more of a unique feeling rather then commercial parts bought and sewn together (obviously that's not the case but the rim and bars painted orange make it very distinguishable that you're on an inmotion product) and in my opinion every EUC brand should consider something like this or at least something in the wheel that can make it identifiable to see what you're riding from a glance, even the orange rims are barely noticeable while looking at someone riding a v12 but you can instantly put together that they're riding an inmotion product (if you're even the least bit familiar with EUC's and the v12 itself)

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

Seems like that reduces the available travel for the wheel since the shock is getting compressed on both ends?

Trek makes a suspension that actuates at both ends. But it doesn't actuate quite the same way.

[mrelwood]

On 7/28/2022 at 7:04 AM, techyiam said:

At the outset, I am only basing on the patent application images that someone posted. I have not been privileged to any actual V13 images.

I don't think anyone has. And like @Unventor said, the V13 might not have any suspension for all we know. This is all just wild speculation.

Especially if someone would go as far as using one's n00b 3D skills to form a model from the leaked render images and patent applications...:

In this mockup the shock absorber has a length of 110mm hole to hole, which could be a reasonable neutral riding position for a 125mm shock.

Ps. Don't mind the missing half of the shock axle... Like I said, n00b.

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

the V13 might not have any suspension for all we know.

Hard to argue that. It does appear Inmotion has been careful not to disclose anything that viewers can determine from, as to whether the V13 is suspended or not.

Regarding the video, we do know the overall diameter of the tire is about 22". From that, we can gauge scale. And thus, the shock depicted in the video is awfully tiny.

[mrelwood]

10 hours ago, techyiam said:

Regarding the video, we do know the overall diameter of the tire is about 22". From that, we can gauge scale.

Which is what I did. Well, I measured the rim, for better precision.

10 hours ago, techyiam said:

And thus, the shock depicted in the video is awfully tiny.

A 125mm shock is a standard size, shown as compressed for 15mm. The thickness of the shock is probably way off as I didn't check what it would be, but there is ample space around the shock in every direction anyway. Point is that the length could indeed fit.

To me it looked awfully tiny as well, but the 16" rim is what throws me off since I'm so used to looking at wheels with 14" rims. It's a huge wheel.

[mrelwood]

Actually, here's an updated model where the air shock body measures are taken from a KS A5 Rr1 125mm Air Shock. The length remains the same.

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by mrelwood

[AtlasP]

I remember multiple mentions/rumors of there being two distinct variations of this wheel, but obviously no mention of what would be the differentiator.

Clearly suspension would be an obvious one (one with, one without)--in which case, the currently shown images may be from the suspension-less version (keeping their cards close to their chest and only showing the version that corroborates what has already been revealed so far about tire/motor size and battery system), and the version with suspension could have different case geometry around the top/back of the shell to make more room for the suspension. (Otherwise could be designed to use the same motor/board/batteries.)

(The other likely contender for version differentiation would be battery size, although with how definitively they stated that "this is the battery size" for the V13 in the last video, this seems less likely to me in this instance.)

Edited July 29, 2022 by AtlasP