New Veteran "Abrams" 22-inch Wheel

[That Guy]

I reckon maybe because of the unprecedented size of the motor, the controller takes the initial draw of current from idle as an overload and cuts it... And weirdly not every motor! (Is it because not every "customised" motor is born equal?). So, LeaperKim probably need to look into both parts of the equation - the motors and the firmware, and (Please!) come back to us with an explanation of what it was and how they fixed it.

BTW, by the look of it Denis Hagov deleted the second part of his Abrams review.

[DjPanJan]

Maybee overvoltage by braking.

Who knows time tell but i think this is not FW only fault if FW be that bad more cases be hapen example 3 of 10 euc  but is not or is rare documented cases.

Propably something SW+FW mix together or just hw issue in some rare cases.

Anyway hard braking hapends often.

I feel how weak sherman  2500w braking is compare to MSP C38 2500w every EUC have limit i expect pedal slowly "die" and not instant motor shutdown.

sherm vs MSP both have "2500"W but brake power torque motor give is significantly more compare to sherman and 3500W abrams is "Speed" motor maybe im wrong im not shure 46kg EUC + Rider in 30km/h is HUDGE amount of energy what this 3500W (speed)? motor need slow to zero..

Thanks to MR Hagof and others influencers shops participated on fixing this on the fly .

 

 

[gon2fast]

I am starting to think that the battery/motor may have worked well with the higher voltage configuration (or not as it never made it to market) and the issue could be with the 100V system. I look at the Sherman and Abrams stats and the newer model's setup makes no sense. Don't get me wrong, I want a large wheel and I am still in the queue*, but this is looking like a gamble with safety in its current state. 

On another hand, I feel that this situation could be salvageable if LK steps up and takes ownership. I suspect a "FW fix" will only slow the wheel down to compensate for what is actually going on under the shell. Some transparency around the current state of affairs with this model would be a good start.

IMHO

*not trying to proactively meet the pavement so probably not.

[InfiniteWheelie]

Do I have it correct that the Sherman has a 14 inch rim, and the Abrams 17 inch? If that's correct wouldn't the Abrams be better described as a 23 inch wheel?

14" rim + 3" wide, 100% height tire = 20 inches

17" rim + 3" wide, 100% height tire = 23 inches

Edited December 15, 2021 by InfiniteWheelie

[Denny Paul]

40 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

Do I have it correct that the Sherman has a 14 inch rim, and the Abrams 17 inch? If that's correct wouldn't the Abrams be better described as a 23 inch wheel?

I've been wondering this too; this is what i think so far but someone confirm/correct me if you know.

I think it's:

- Sherman = 14" rim, big ol' 3" off road tire so: 14" + 3" + 3" = 20" advertised. Real diameter is slightly larger given the knobby

- Abrams = 17" rim, big but not as big 3" tire so their marketing rounded down in their rough math: 17" + 2.5" + 2.5" = 22" advertised. Real diameter is closer to 22.5" which again makes it slightly more than advertised

- Monster pro = 18" rim, 3" street tire but they didn't bother rounding down: 18" + 3" + 3" = 24" advertised. Real diameter is closer to 23.5. Slightly less than advertised cause gotway dgaf

Edited December 15, 2021 by Denny Paul

[InfiniteWheelie]

So the Abrams is using a skinnier tire? Does anyone know the rim width on the Abrams?

Edited December 15, 2021 by InfiniteWheelie

[Denny Paul]

5 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

So the Abrams is using a skinnier tire? Does anyone know the rim width on the Abrams?

No the Abrams is still using a 3" tire. Something that's not common knowledge is that tire sizes tend to be over-reported values. Kind of like how at 34" inch waist for mens pants is really 36" or whatever; its done just to make the consumer feel better about what they're buying. For tires, if they say it's a 18" x 3" tire, the real world diameter is more like 2.75". I think Veteran factors this in to their advertised 22" inch wheel because they don't want to oversell anything. Gotway does not, and uses the 'glamour' tire sizing in their rough math.

if I recall correctly, the guys at eevee's said through their youtube video that the rim width was the same as the sherman v2 width, and also made of thicker/more durable metal. They didn't test it, this was based off of their first non-scientific impressions.

[InfiniteWheelie]

If that's true about overstated widths it's pretty surprising considering these are motorcycle tires. I assumed they would match their specs closely. I'd be interested to know the make and model number of the Abrams stock tire.

Edited December 15, 2021 by InfiniteWheelie

[fbhb]

6 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I'd be interested to know the make and model number of the Abrams stock tire.

I believe the stock Abrams tire model is a Kenda K254 2.75-17, as was used on the OG and V3 GotWay Monster. Ecodrift show some good clear photos and info regarding the Kenda fitment:

Quoted from the Ecodrift Abrams teardown: "Tire size 2.75 by 17".. This is a motorcycle (automotive) size. 17 inches is the diameter of the rim. 2.75" is the height of the tire. In total, we get 22.5" in external diameter. We already had a wheel in the same size – this is the Monster, which is without the Pro. And I remember not understanding why it was needed, so huge and heavy. Here. Get a new monster that's even heavier."

Edited December 16, 2021 by fbhb

[That Guy]

5 hours ago, fbhb said:

And I remember not understanding why it was needed, so huge and heavy

Me too …but someone let me try his Monster just this week. And now I can’t get it off my head. (Why spend on suspension if you can have a bigger wheel?) :-)

[EMA]

5 hours ago, fbhb said:

Quoted from the Ecodrift Abrams teardown: "Tire size 2.75 by 17".. This is a motorcycle (automotive) size. 17 inches is the diameter of the rim. 2.75" is the height of the tire. In total, we get 22.5" in external diameter. We already had a wheel in the same size – this is the Monster, which is without the Pro. And I remember not understanding why it was needed, so huge and heavy. Here. Get a new monster that's even heavier."

monster3 tire was the CST c117 almost identical to this kenda.

i agree with the weight since the beginning, something so heavy becomes useless as a wheel, it miss the point from my perspective

[Pertheucrider]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/753593188713546/permalink/1120356588703869/

Hi guys,

New guy here, just made an account to post this. I have a pre-order on a veteran Abrams but I'm going to cancel it because the cut out issue is bullshit. This euc is not safe imho.

I'm a member of the facebook veteran sherman / abrams page and some guy just posted a video and X-rays of his Abrams cutting out and the resulting broken bones. 

I am very disappointed in the veteran brand myself. They should recall all Abrams untill this issue is resolved.

[gon2fast]

Yup, pulling my pre-purchase as well. The only way to get these companies to respond and address their issues is by affecting their profit. Obviously one sale does not mean a thing, but I hope others follow suit and hold these companies accountable. 

 

[supercurio]

Very sad someone got hurt already due to an extremely poor handling of this flaw by Leaperkim, from the beginning.

[longjohnsally]

On 12/7/2021 at 4:23 AM, DjPanJan said:

How i understand problem is here because bad/missing insulation somewhere? 

Or battery is just too weak(6p abrams vs 10p  sherman) for this big motor. 3500W is hudge but is only number MSP2500w and sherman 2500W looks similar but no way in real life gigantic diference in power.

Maybee becasue big tire diameter is problem for controler monster pro is "weak" in hard braking or aceleration too.

I remeber wrongway video where Adam overlean monster PRO simply by make aceleration test.

And this blue BLOB "drama" inside tire means somebody is hard incopentent in Veteran company they send absolutely without testing product to market we expect sherman competitor and not ALPHA version concept.

I just want High torque sherman i know i am too simply i not ride over 43km/h 28mp/h anyway ant they make Abrams just big WTF for me 🤦‍♀️ like heavy 🐷 rider. Why wtf because this 3500w motor is propably "speed motor" and this is bigest disapointment for me.

The new Sherman ("Sherman Max" I've been told) is being shipped with 3600Wh battery and a new apparently higher torque motor.  My fingers are crossed this turns out to be a great update. 

[Pertheucrider]

"Sherman max" what a cool name. You'd have to be really brave preordering anything from leaperkim after the Abrams fiasco. $3.5k for a unicycle that has a good chance to cut out while breaking. What a joke really

[KiwiMark]

From the last few posts it sounds like things have gone bad for the Abrams, I take it that the firmware fix didn't fix the problem?

[InfiniteWheelie]

Whatever the problem is, I'm sure they will fix it on future batches. The question is whether the first adopters are going to get screwed or Leaperkim takes care of them.

[mrelwood]

On 12/15/2021 at 8:49 PM, InfiniteWheelie said:

Do I have it correct that the Sherman has a 14 inch rim, and the Abrams 17 inch? If that's correct wouldn't the Abrams be better described as a 23 inch wheel?

14" rim + 3" wide, 100% height tire = 20 inches

17" rim + 3" wide, 100% height tire = 23 inches

You are assuming that the tire or wheel size groups were based on actual measurements.  They’re not.

 Extrapolating your list, the original Inmotion V8 with a 16x1.95 tire would then be 12” rim + 2x 1.95” = 15.9”, while the 16X with “16x3.0” stamped on the tire would be 12+2x3 = 18”.

 Since it says 16” on the tire, I don’t see a point in calling it a 18” wheel, whatever the actual measures are. Same goes for calling wheels with 18” tires as 20” wheels.

 Larger ones are a bit exceptional though, since their tires are not based on bicycle tires. I don’t think ones would even be available. So the naming patterns are still a Wild Wild West.

 Calling them based on the rim size doesn’t work either, since 16”, 17” and 18” already have recognized existing EUC references. So, what to do? No idea. Rim + 4” would be the obvious one if GW hadn’t started “+1”-ing with the MSX… And Veteran continuing the same stupid pattern. And KS sheeping on with the flow.

So, if Inmotion comes up with an 18” EUC that has the same exact tire of the supposedly “ 20” “ Sherman and S20, what can they do? Vast majority of people have no idea that 20” = 19” = 18”, so unless IM also calls 18” as 20”, many people will skip the wheel altogether because they don’t want a “smaller” wheel than the S20.

Why can’t everything be standardized?! We need EU specifications for tires, diameters, rant length, speed and time (screw your Einstein…)!

[InfiniteWheelie]

The best and simplest way to refer to wheels is by rim size, the same as motorcycles do. As you said the current naming schemes are all over the place so just choose what makes the most sense, the rim size. Different tire width and aspect ratio will always change the exact sizes anyway.

Sherman 14", Abrams 17", Monster Pro 18" etc.

Edited December 19, 2021 by InfiniteWheelie

[Eucner]

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Why can’t everything be standardized?! We need EU specifications for tires, diameters, rant length, speed and time (screw your Einstein…)!

They have already been standardized for a long time. The EUC manufacturer's just can't follow them, which is consistent with their general ability to follow standards.

[mrelwood]

30 minutes ago, Eucner said:

They have already been standardized for a long time. The EUC manufacturer's just can't follow them, which is consistent with their general ability to follow standards.

If you mean ETRTO, I don’t think EUC manufacturers are to blame. After all, they don’t make the tires. Besides, EUCs are a peculiar group since the tires span from bicycle only sizes to motorcycle only sizes.

[Eucner]

25 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

If you mean ETRTO, I don’t think EUC manufacturers are to blame. After all, they don’t make the tires. Besides, EUCs are a peculiar group since the tires span from bicycle only sizes to motorcycle only sizes.

The EUC manufacturer's choose rims and tires to their products. They should know exactly what they are using. They just don't care to pass the information to the customers or they sacrifice facts for marketing. Bicycle and motorcycle tires have different standards and are marked differently.

[GothamMike]

9 hours ago, Eucner said:

They have already been standardized for a long time. The EUC manufacturer's just can't follow them, which is consistent with their general ability to follow standards.

Low Quality assurance will thin out the manufacturers 

[Dany FeelGood]

ABRAMS from a friend 

BEARING Problems after 40km 🙈