New Veteran "Abrams" 22-inch Wheel

[Kekafuch]

Hey guys, what firmware do you have listed on Abrams?

 

I emailed LeaperKim asking about latest updates into the reported cutout issues and bearings. They responded by asking what my motor code is and that they will have a tech report to me. 
 

 

 

 

[Silver]

13 minutes ago, Kekafuch said:

Hey guys, what firmware do you have listed on Abrams?

 

Idk where to check that but looking on EUC world under wheel info it says 2.0.2

[supercurio]

1 hour ago, Silver said:

It's in medium mode but it dips just as much in hard. I probably should have done it in hard mode fore the video I just don't like hard mode I have a harder time balancing in hard mode.

Thanks for sharing, you did a great job with this test, even without proper power pads!
It seems within range for a high speed wheel, when reaching near zero speeds.
And it's the heaviest out here.

Kind of liking how it recoverers however instead of giving up, regaining balance in a reasonable way.
They definitely fixed the issue with the early firmware and some motors, and they did it well.

Plus, it dips in a predictable way before being over powered, which gives you a little bit of time to anticipate and reduce pressure, or even to "feel" where the limit is with your feet. That's a very good characteristic IMO.

All in all, not ideal for low speed technical off-road when you're navigating terrain between roots and rocks and sometimes stop to rebalance and turn, but for other riding conditions, not bad!

Edited February 10, 2022 by supercurio

[Kekafuch]

29 minutes ago, Silver said:

Idk where to check that but looking on EUC world under wheel info it says 2.0.2

Mine was shipped out Mid December 2021 from China. Darknessbot says 2.0.02 for me.

Eevees says they have .03 and updated bearings from manufacturer. 

Only 3rd ride w my Abrams but slowly torquing it more and also surprised to find I can make it dip easier than my Sherman. Slowly working my way harder but so far I haven’t had any cut out issue w a number of jerks. 
 

Very curious to hear back with what LeaperKim has to say when they get my motor code. They specifically said they will check if firmware update is needed. 
 

With MadPack saying the firmware changed the ride feel, I am weary of updating without more feedback. 

 

 

[Silver]

35 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Kind of liking how it recoverers however instead of giving up, regaining balance in a reasonable way.
They definitely fixed the issue with the early firmware and some motors, and they did it well.

Yeah if it this one had the hall sensor or firmware problems I'm pretty sure I would have found out by now.

22 minutes ago, Kekafuch said:

Only 3rd ride w my Abrams but slowly torquing it more and also surprised to find I can make it dip easier than my Sherman

I was wondering how it compared to the Sherman I'm surprised that the low end is worse on the Abrams since I had heard about it not being very good on the Sherman and it had been marked as having more tourqe then the Sherman on ewheels but I guess that is the cost of such a big wheel

[supercurio]

1 hour ago, Silver said:

Yeah if it this one had the hall sensor or firmware problems I'm pretty sure I would have found out by now.

Hahaha no doubt!

1 hour ago, Silver said:

I was wondering how it compared to the Sherman I'm surprised that the low end is worse on the Abrams since I had heard about it not being very good on the Sherman and it had been marked as having more tourqe then the Sherman on ewheels but I guess that is the cost of such a big wheel

I understand why many would say that the low end torque of the Sherman is bad but after some comparison I disagree.
Some time ago I tried over-powering all my friends wheels, and after succeeding to do so I was surprised to realize that the Sherman needed the most effort of the bunch.

However, no doubt, it's hard to extract the low-end torque out of the Sherman. Its "throttle response" is very smoothed over time and limited at lowest speeds so it appears sluggish, and it requires good technique and/or pads for climbing, but it's definitely there and not that easy to overpower for a high-speed wheel.

Edited February 11, 2022 by supercurio

[Kekafuch]

23 minutes ago, Silver said:

 

I was wondering how it compared to the Sherman I'm surprised that the low end is worse on the Abrams since I had heard about it not being very good on the Sherman and it had been marked as having more tourqe then the Sherman on ewheels but I guess that is the cost of such a big wheel

sorry my bad. What I meant to say is I was surprised to feel the dip on the Abrams while torquing it standing still.

I never got it to dip as much as you demonstrate.  I never paid much attention to this in my EUC journey. Only cause of the reports, I had to “test” it out.

I then did the same w my Sherman. Actually it’s close and I felt the Sherman is easier to dip or looser when it does start dipping. 

Sherman to me feels like it struggles when starting in a steep hill. Abrams wasn’t getting me up a hill any faster at a crawl but it didn’t sound like it was struggling. I will attribute that to me not being able to extract the power. 

Did a 40km familiar path. Average speed was 5kmh faster on the Abrams! Felt much more relaxed not worrying about potholes and more comfortable around traffic.  Carving is fun and feels like the I can stay leaning for long periods of time which is getting addictive. I still feel the Sherman is faster wheel and I got caught a couple times trying to do a 180 at a stop sign but reminded I am on a 100lbs wheel. 
 

I feel with the bigger wheel, it requires alot of power to feel remotely agile. That’s probably where all the power is going. Curious now about how a Monster Pro compares. 

[Silver]

17 minutes ago, Kekafuch said:

I got caught a couple times trying to do a 180 at a stop sign but reminded I am on a 100lbs wheel.

When I'm just on one pedal standing at a light it's alot of work to balance it with the one leg. And if you lose balance it really wants to fall since it's so tall

[Jpd]

On 2/10/2022 at 3:51 PM, supercurio said:

It's in medium mode but it dips just as much in hard. I probably should have done it in hard mode fore the video I just don't like hard mode I have a harder time balancing in hard mode.

I took the abrams out for a longer ride today, trying to get familiar with it. 
after seeing the over powering video I thought I’d give it a try on mine. 
my height is 5’7” and riding weight is 195. I was not able to overpower the wheel, not in soft medium or hard, not accelerating or braking. 
I tried repeatedly and had no dipping whatsoever, I even leaned like kuji a couple times trying to get it to dip. 

maybe the abrams isn’t as well suited for bigger riders as previously thought. Or it might be possible that some wheels are responding differently. 

[Silver]

2 hours ago, Jpd said:

Or it might be possible that some wheels are responding differently

Do you know what firmware you are on?

[Jpd]

29 minutes ago, Silver said:

Do you know what firmware you are on?

DarknessBot says it’s 2.0.02

[Dan Hillary]

I think the Abrams has two beepers. I've never heard about that, so does anyone know if the second beeper functions as one final pre-cutout warning? How does it work exactly? Here's a video:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qvN7tDXjRuEBMEsg6

Edit: By the way, the beeper is a full 10db louder than the EXN beeper from the rider's perspective:

 

 

 

 

Edit 2: I'm going to test this again outdoors, I'm thinking I was getting some kind of echo in my basement and there really is just one alarm.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Dan Hillary

[That Guy]

37 minutes ago, Dan Hillary said:

I think the Abrams has two beepers. I've never heard about that, so does anyone know if the second beeper functions as one final pre-cutout warning? How does it work exactly? Here's a video:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qvN7tDXjRuEBMEsg6

That's a great idea if true!

[Kekafuch]

280km on the Abrams after 4 rides in the last 8 days. 

Was not sure before but Yes, the Abrams has more power than Sherman for climbing up hills. It still feels like it needs momentum to get started or better ability to demand the power. The motor doesn’t feel strained where the Sherman does. 

Stability is the main feature. This stability translates to being able to hold a tighter line, corner smoother, and piece of mind riding in the dark and hitting pot holes. Feels very confident riding with cars and moving among them cause of how well it tracks. Average speed is way up on familiar paths. Easily maintaining and carrying the speed for longer periods. Addicting to just stay leaned and have the wheel carrying you forward. 

I am wondering the purpose of the Abrams. Sherman and Commanders would be my first choice as they are pretty fast and stable, better maneuverability, and bigger battery as well as lighter weight. If commuting to the same place daily and being among cars at a speedy pace, the Abrams is safer because it is more stable. 

For me, it’s a weekend wheel. Go out in the morning to enjoy a rip around the city and then back home with a smile and decent leg work out. Not sure that’s enough to keep the Abrams in my small fleet but will put a couple thousand more kms this Summer to find out. It’s only been 4 rides and each one has made the Abrams more appreciated. What’s interesting is that riding the Sherman afterwards feels more enjoyable because it now feels like a lightweight maneuverable wheel! 

One thing that would make this wheel very attractive would be if it had massive range. Measuring the battery, it would be about 3/4” wider or 1.5” wider in total if the batteries were stacked back to back and then mounted w the narrowest dimension to the motor. 

Maybe if the cage were modified, an extra set of batteries could sit side by side looking like a bit EX2S but with 5400wh of battery and total weight of 130lbs. 

[InfiniteWheelie]

The more I see the more I want one, I just wish the battery was bigger. I can't imagine why they made a bigger wheel like this and lowered the range. A few extra kilos is no big deal on a wheel like this.

Edited February 14, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[Kekafuch]

23 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

The more I see the more I want one, I just wish the battery was bigger. I can't imagine why they made a bigger wheel like this and lowered the range. A few extra kilos is no big deal on a wheel like this.

The only thing I can think of is that there will be a Max Abrams and a good price bump to combat inflation. Sherman Max is more than 25-% more than what I paid for the Sherman with only 8-9% more battery. 
 

Porsche 911 is not practical vs a SUV or sedan but it stirs the emotions and draws in a crowd of enthusiasts. Abrams is like an enthusiast wheel in its current form.  Carving isn’t much more efficient than the 20” wheels but the feel is dramatically different and not necessarily positive but if you like cornering at speed or want to work the wheel, the Abrams is fun in that sense. 
 

Seated experience is almost perfect on the Abrams. And because the structure is solid, it lends well to holding the riders weight. The chassis style build lends itself well if there’s any groups wanting to modify the wheel. 

[Kekafuch]

Follow up on emailing Linnea directly from the Leaper Kim website regarding the cut out issue and firmware update … They asked for the motor code that’s printed on the motor cover. 

Today, I got email response back simply stating … firmware update not required. 

I have 2.0.02 and there’s 2.0.03 out there according to eevees. 
 

There’s video posted here of some dips and I confirm that I can get mine to dip back pretty easily (although not as far back as the other guy here) when jerking it in soft and medium mode while holding a wall for support. It feels predictable and the wheel hasn’t cut out.

Getting more confidence about the Abrams but still waiting to hear and see more updates on the forums. 

 

[Silver]

2 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

A few extra kilos is no big deal on a wheel like this.

I very much would not have wanted any extra kilos. As someone who only rides at most 30 miles a day I don't see how there are so many people that need Sherman Max levels of range. If it cost more then the new Sherman I would understand why people would have a problem with the range but the wheel is just targeting a different group then the Sherman. While it is a bit strange that the larger wheel isn't the longer range one they can't go back and unmake the Sherman and having two massive, expensive and extreme range wheels would overlap there sales base too much. Personally, I just wanted something fast and powerful as there are pretty much no bike lanes here and I have to ride on 35 mph roads with cars that tend to speed. If they could have made it lighter, less wide and cheaper by having the battery pack be the same size as the s20 I would have still bought it (In the real world voltage sag would have probably caused problems with as smaller battery but for the sake of argument pretend that's not a problem.)

1 hour ago, Kekafuch said:

(although not as far back as the other guy here)

I haven't really had any problems in normal riding with it dipping. Starting from a stop I have to hold back a little bit (Which is annoying when having to start again after waiting to make a left turn) but I don't think It's any more then I would have to with any High Speed wheel after transitioning over from a high torque one. and the breaking really hasn't been an issue since I don't need to break like I did in that video very often.

 

1 hour ago, Kekafuch said:

Getting more confidence about the Abrams but still waiting to hear and see more updates on the forums. 

My side pads I made finally finished printing yesterday and they have made a big difference on how I've felt on the wheel, especially the back ones. Turning, carving, stopping, feeling comfortable at speed and just in general I've been enjoying the ride a lot more the past two days. Every one keeps saying the wheel is super stable and definitely is. It's almost too stable really, I've had times where I've felt like the wheel was being a bit sluggish going up a hill only to look down and see I was going 10mph faster then I thought I was going. It's been a lot more natural to ride as well. I was worried that It would feel like a vehicle and not like a part of me like my RS feels like but it's starting to feel more and more natural as I put the miles on it.

 

With an 18in wheel being my first wheel I was between buying the v12 so I could try a 16in wheel and the Abrams so I could try a 22in wheel. With the mosfet problems on the v12 I kinda dodged a bullet on that one. Though having now tried a 22in wheel I think a 16in wheel would have fit better into my life as lugging the Abrams around for my commute is a bit of a pain.

 

Over all though, I've been enjoying the Abrams so far and I'm going to go for another quick ride after I finish typing this.

[Brianr058]

On 2/11/2022 at 10:03 PM, Jpd said:

DarknessBot says it’s 2.0.02

I just updated to 03 and it got rid of a lot of the pedal dip but not completely 

 

[Kekafuch]

 

The pedals and on WrongWay’s Abrams sure do look like they move around quite a bit. 
 

 

[Silver]

12 hours ago, Kekafuch said:

The pedals and on WrongWay’s Abrams sure do look like they move around quite a bit.

He said he is on the most resent firmware. Is there a problem with it or something? he didn't say anything about the peddle dip being a new problem but my wheel definitely isn't acting like that

[Kekafuch]

1 hour ago, Silver said:

He said he is on the most resent firmware. Is there a problem with it or something? he didn't say anything about the peddle dip being a new problem but my wheel definitely isn't acting like that

I am curious as well. I wonder if it’s something WrongWay can sense and other riders can’t. He seemed to have a huge issue about pedal movements on the custom EXN he reviewed when others swear by the custom program. 
 

Beginning to think there might even be 2 motors out there. I emailed LeaperKim about any updates information an Abrams user should know about. They asked for motor code and then replied that “firmware update is not required”. I am still weary about my Abrams even though I have been riding it pretty much how I ride 
 

it would be awesome to have a more detailed answer about what the firmware changes actually do. 
 

NYC crew looks like they have their demo Abrams finally. So I am sure more opinions will surface this weekend. 

[Jpd]

4 hours ago, Silver said:

He said he is on the most resent firmware. Is there a problem with it or something? he didn't say anything about the peddle dip being a new problem but my wheel definitely isn't acting like that

My wheel doesn’t do that either. It appears that some of the abrams are behaving differently than others.

[Fuerte]

My personal feeling is that he got a "Bad" wheel. If you watch the unboxing, it squeaks like crazy when he does anything on it, like it is missing screws or something...

[Kekafuch]

NYC Abrams