New Veteran "Abrams" 22-inch Wheel

[JoeBean]

is this the latest apk on this thread to update the wheel ? https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/23899-veteran-releases-their-sherman-ota-firmware-update-tool/ 

It's crashing everytime i connect to the wheel. I enabled location.

 

[kiitick]

Here's the link that I have from ewheels. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l3x0gxwprqcgfud/Abrams_Update_Tool.apk?dl=0

[Dan Hillary]

I've been on the new firmware for about 200 miles and had another incident. I'm convinced the issue is hardware and the firmware is a bandaid; I would have face planted without it, but the firmware probably saved me as the wheel re-engaged after deadfalling 20 degrees forward and with a ratchety groan re-righted itself with me still holding onto the handle and mounted on the pedals.

I'll get the dashcam video, audio and logs after I get home later today to post.

The incident was at about 12mph over a rooty, bumpy section of a blacktop bikepath.

More to come. 🙄

[Dan Hillary]

4 hours ago, Dan Hillary said:

...More to come. 🙄

Here's a bit of info; I wish I had more interesting video to share, but this is the incident along with tagged images of the speed and current draw from that and surrounding moments.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1VdOkrRNombbPu1sJ_pInRjTB4s3QCmAR?usp=sharing

My interpretation is this: the hall sensor failure occurred after lots of jarring small roots were rolled over, but for some reason this one did the trick. The wheel forgot it was an EUC for 0.1 seconds and allowed itself to freefall forward 15 to 20 degrees. The motor then grinds to life in a huge effort to save me and snaps back upright. If I weren't holding onto the handle and bracing myself because of the roots then I may have fallen off. Thank goodness I was only going as slowly as 20kph.

Without the new firmware I probably would have been on my face. So yeah, the new firmware seems to help with recovery, but it's not preventing the hall sensor (or whatever causes this) errors in the first place and I'm done riding this wheel. 

I'll be contacting Ewheels to see what they think, but I'm bracing myself for a total loss on the investment of this wheel since Leaperkim seems reluctant to acknowledge anything serious enough for a recall.

What other info do you guys think would be helpful to share? I have longer videos of the before and after as well, with many more heat-of-the-moment expletives aimed at the wheel. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Dan Hillary

[Tawpie]

ugh. I tend to agree, something is seriously not right with that wheel. Maybe it's design, maybe it's assembly but I think you have a legit gripe. It should be in warranty but that doesn't really help if there's nothing "wrong" with it. I guess I'd be diplomatic with Jason and work with them on recovering as much of your investment as you can. Full or partial credit against a Shermax or something. Jason's a real stickler for safe wheels, so you'll have a sympathetic ear... it might be deaf, but then again, it might not be.

At the very worst, you can part it out. The batteries are worth real money.

[kiitick]

I'll be curious what Jason has to say. I know they aren't selling them on their website currently, because of the cut out issues. Unfortunately, mine isn't really covered under warranty because it's the wheel I was riding when an f350 decided to run a stop sign and not pay attention to a pedestrian in the crosswalk. Everything looked good, except I had to replace the roll cage. 

[supercurio]

Fantastic job @Dan Hillary with the data collection and analysis 

220 A phase current is essentially the max the board can deliver to the motor, which allowed to recover balance in this instance.
Crazy that the wheel rotation speed went down to 16.53 km/h from 20.71 km/h during the cut-off. No surprise it was falling off to the front.

[Ronin Ryder]

15 hours ago, Dan Hillary said:

ll be contacting Ewheels to see what they think, but I'm bracing myself for a total loss on the investment of this wheel since Leaperkim seems reluctant to acknowledge anything serious enough for a recall

Same here. I dont even have warranty from ewheels, as they never reply to my inquiries. @houseofjob told me it will be my trauma wheel, i think he's right!! This wheel is hopeless. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Ronin Ryder

[Dan Hillary]

9 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

Same here. I dont even have warranty from ewheels, as they never reply to my inquiries. @houseofjob told me it will be my trauma wheel, i think he's right!! This wheel is hopeless. 

I'll let everyone know what reply I get. At this point I just want out and get back on a 20" wheel in time for Groundings and my NYC trip the next week. If I have to I'll ride my Mten3 (which coincidentally would have had no problem with the roots in the incident above).

[InfiniteWheelie]

After putting thousands of km on my first wheel (Sherman), I think I may be done with EUCs until safety and quality is taken seriously. Luckily I bought one of the most robust wheels and never had a serious failure, thanks in part to an abundance of caution. Yet every time I get on the wheel, I have a nagging worry about cutouts, whether they be my fault or not.

I think we need redundant controllers, backup resistive braking, backup capacitors for overpower/cutouts, native PWM access through apps, much louder beepers, and much higher quality control to ensure cutouts never happen. These things are all possible to implement, and hopefully in a few years some tesla-like company decides to create a truly safe wheel.

I know it's slightly off topic, but this thread is reminding me of the constant problems wheels are still facing.  

Edited June 8, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[Freeforester]

1 hour ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

After putting thousands of km on my first wheel (Sherman), I think I may be done with EUCs until safety and quality is taken seriously. Luckily I bought one of the most robust wheels and never had a serious failure, thanks in part to an abundance of caution. Yet every time I get on the wheel, I have a nagging worry about cutouts, whether they be my fault or not.

I think we need redundant controllers, backup resistive braking, backup capacitors for overpower/cutouts, native PWM access through apps, much louder beepers, and much higher quality control to ensure cutouts never happen. These things are all possible to implement, and hopefully in a few years some tesla-like company decides to create a truly safe wheel.

I know it's slightly off topic, but this thread is reminding me of the constant problems wheels are still facing.  

I am sure you aren’t the only person who harbours nagging doubts as to the ‘current’ 🤔 safety levels of our chosen wheel/s, however I don’t think one can ever truly expect to declare a wheel to be ‘safe - the “safe” EUC has stabilisers and probably a speed limiter fitted’; in France there is a saying, ‘It is the fate of the glass to break’, and I think this pretty much sums up the inherent risk associated with riding EUC’s, in that sooner or later one may reasonably expect to be let down, for myriad reasons, an nor all totally related to build quality, eg a dynamic puncture? Or a Bumble bee in the face?

All cars, no matter how ‘reliable’ a runner they generally tend to be, have inbuilt potential for a breakdown to happen, it’s just that in our chosen sport/pastime that the consequences of such a failure for the well-being of EUC riders can be rather more significant/injurious. Best we can do is ‘respect the beeps’, ride within what one considers one’s own acceptable safety envelope of speed and always wear appropriate protection, or give up while the going is still good and get the Tee shirt.     Sure, there’s still plenty of room for improvement, but we have the choice - to choose what, where and when to mount and go ride now, or rather wait - until our own, individual personal specifications for safe riding are met, or simply acknowledge the gap between what we would ideally wish to see and the reality of the present, and either proceed with suitable caution or simply move on to other things.      We make our own bed, and must lie in it, aware of the risks. As ever, Ignorance may be bliss, but it is certainly better to be aware of the risks as we are, and do one’s best to address or mitigate same as far as one can.
 

What is not in much doubt is that in spite of earnest endeavour by some manufacturers (and perhaps less by others), we are still some way from realising the ‘truly safe’ EUC.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Freeforester

[That Guy]

13 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

...we need redundant...

Well, it is a new hobby and still very early years of product development. The term "redundancy" is relative to the perceived limits the rider decides to explore. I am sure if you stick with 20mph max and not riding below 50-60% of the battery the risk is very low on most wheels. (But will you?...) ;-)

Edited June 8, 2022 by That Guy

[Silver]

Hadn't really got a chance to test out the new firm ware much but I went for a short ride today to the office to check on something. And as soon as I went to leave I got a hall sensors error and crashed jumping off a curb. Now it won't move with giving me an error

[JoeBean]

36 minutes ago, Silver said:

Hadn't really got a chance to test out the new firm ware much but I went for a short ride today to the office to check on something. And as soon as I went to leave I got a hall sensors error and crashed jumping off a curb. Now it won't move with giving me an error

This feels like playing russian roulette.

I have taken big bumps at 65 km/h and it has not flinched once.

I won't be updating just yet. Full gear everytime. My asshole does puckers up when a car come up behind. 

 

[alex5454]

Hi guys, here it seems that all the abrams are defective mine has 490 KM of which 60 KM made with the latest firmware are few to have a test but it is my feedback and for now everything is fine ...

I wrote several times Linnea / Leaperkim does not answer anything to do ...

I think I will go to other brands for the next purchases they are not serious

[Silver]

17 hours ago, JoeBean said:

I have taken big bumps at 65 km/h and it has not flinched once.

I had hit bumps going at high speeds too and never had a problem. I even hit speed bumps going at 55 km/h several times and never had a problem. I was sure mine had proved itself But out of nowhere it died after dropping down a small curb at low speed.

[Ronin Ryder]

7 hours ago, Silver said:

I had hit bumps going at high speeds too and never had a problem. I even hit speed bumps going at 55 km/h several times and never had a problem. I was sure mine had proved itself But out of nowhere it died after dropping down a small curb at low speed.

Was this with the latest firmware?

[Silver]

22 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

Was this with the latest firmware?

Yeah, this was my second or third ride with the new firmware and the first ride was just around the parking lot at my apartment

[Mordraug]

On 6/12/2022 at 4:48 PM, Silver said:

I had hit bumps going at high speeds too and never had a problem. I even hit speed bumps going at 55 km/h several times and never had a problem. I was sure mine had proved itself But out of nowhere it died after dropping down a small curb at low speed.

This does not sound like the typical Abrams problem, perhaps this curb hit just right (or you know, the straw that broke the camels back) to dislodge/break hal sensor? No way to tell without taking the motor apart i guess.

[Mordraug]

On 6/6/2022 at 8:19 PM, Dan Hillary said:

I've been on the new firmware for about 200 miles and had another incident. I'm convinced the issue is hardware and the firmware is a bandaid; I would have face planted without it, but the firmware probably saved me as the wheel re-engaged after deadfalling 20 degrees forward and with a ratchety groan re-righted itself with me still holding onto the handle and mounted on the pedals.

I'll get the dashcam video, audio and logs after I get home later today to post.

The incident was at about 12mph over a rooty, bumpy section of a blacktop bikepath.

More to come. 🙄

Had the exact same thing happen to me in almost identical conditions, going downhill over loose bumpy gravel road. I was going a bit slower I guess, more like 10-15kph. Wheel let me fall a bit forward and lifted me back up with a terrible noise.

[alex5454]

Hi guys, another firmware abrams 2.0.15

1. Fixed some known bugs.

2. Chance of shocks / vibrations during motion decreased

3. Nothing

and the wheel is not looking for problems, are they trying to fix something with firmware? ridiculous.

Edited June 18, 2022 by alex5454

[RetroThruster]

Was feeling confident yesterday and took the Abrams out for a ride around the yard, 50% battery not being abusive but not dodging the divots in my yard like I usually do, hard lean and hard braking (for me) and nothing, original firmware and 210 lbs.  I'm just gonna gear up and ride the thing, I almost forgot how nice it is.  If you don't hear from me again, you'll know what happened

[kiitick]

I love this wheel. It's one of my most favorite I've ever ridden. My accidents with the wheel have all been user error. It's got so much low end torque, which is great for my fat body.

[Kekafuch]

I am still on the original firmware. Version .02 and reaching 1800km.

Since the ewheels report, I took the Abrams twice on a walking/jogging pace for about 20kms in total. What a workout. I would purposely shake the wheel left and right as violently as I could. Attempted pendulums back and forth. Entire speed average under 8kmh. No issue.

I took it on a 80km loop. Avg speed around 27kmh with many bursts over 50kmh. During a gravel section, I rode seated for over 10km. No issue. 

Then I took it on this local mountain service road. 10km up and 10 km back down. The climb is 1000m. The entire path is loaded with fist sized rocks. Many many successive bumps. No issue. 

I plan on updating to the new .11 firmware and then redoing the mountain road test. Now there is .15 firmware I see.
 

I appreciate the ewheels report but I hope they can let us know what the exact issue they think needs to be solved. my retailer from AliExpress says they confirm I can try the new firmware but they are waiting on LK for more information as well. Linnea has not responded to my last 2 casual emails requesting for an update. 

Video of the Mountain Ride. 

 

[spb]

Hello. Our rider was updated from version 11 to version 15, but the problem of cod and loss of horizon remained. It is observed when driving at low speed over small obstacles / roots. It seems that the firmware does not correctly switch to the control mode by sensors from the no-hall mode.