New Veteran "Abrams" 22-inch Wheel

[Jonah Hax]

Some of you guys are bringing the average way down! Lean forward more 
 

[techyiam]

30 minutes ago, Jonah Hax said:

Some of you guys are bringing the average way down! Lean forward more 

 

You should tell that to the Master crowd. 

The top speed of a Master is definitely higher than the Abrams.

The real reason is probably because more Abrams riders are riding on roads.

 

 

 

[The Brahan Seer]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

The real reason is probably because more Abrams riders are riding on roads.

 

The real reason will be because there are a lot fewer Abrams than the others and they all rode at higher speeds. The average top riding speed of 1 wheel could be say 40Mph but add another wheel who only managed 15Mph then your average is suddenly 27.5Mph.

With the Master having so many more wheels out there means the top speed of each wheel will vary greater affecting the overall average top speed.

[techyiam]

52 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

The real reason will be because there are a lot fewer Abrams than the others and they all rode at higher speeds. The average top riding speed of 1 wheel could be say 40Mph but add another wheel who only managed 15Mph then your average is suddenly 27.5Mph.

With the Master having so many more wheels out there means the top speed of each wheel will vary greater affecting the overall average top speed.

That is the point, though. People who buys the Abrams has a higher tendency to go faster. Not so with the Master. The headroom is there but not enough of them go fast enough to give a higher average speed. But this is what this statistic shows.

[The Brahan Seer]

50 minutes ago, techyiam said:

People who buys the Abrams has a higher tendency to go faster.

But you don't know that for sure because there is not enough data. As I explained before. Statistics are pretty meaningless at the best of times but certainly are if you have very little data points.

I do appreciate that people buying 22" wheels are likely to use it for on road but if anything with the master and CP being able to get to higher speeds a lot quicker than 22" wheels you would expect them to be higher  and i'm sure next years results will prove it.

[The Brahan Seer]

56 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Not so with the Master.

Though I appreciate what you are saying re headroom and the Masters battery capacity. The average top speed is only 20Mph so maybe 22" wheels just go on longer straights and streets whilst Masters do this but not for so long and also go off trails more.

[techyiam]

19 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

I do appreciate that people buying 22" wheels are likely to use it for on road but if anything with the master and CP being able to get to higher speeds a lot quicker than 22" wheels you would expect them to be higher  and i'm sure next years results will prove it.

Commander Pro is not in stock yet for the international market, so no need to talk about statistics when there is insufficient data.

However, the Master is a different story. It sold very well, in fact much better than the Abrams. 

So, it is a valid comparison. 

[The Brahan Seer]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

So, it is a valid comparison. 

except..

 

3 minutes ago, techyiam said:

It sold very well, in fact much better than the Abrams. 

so it is not a valid comparison. Can't compare results from say 20 wheels verses 200.

But you obviously think different which is your prerogative.

[techyiam]

On 2/12/2023 at 6:04 AM, The Brahan Seer said:

Though I appreciate what you are saying re headroom and the Masters battery capacity. The average top speed is only 20Mph so maybe 22" wheels just go on longer straights and streets whilst Masters do this but not for so long and also go off trails more.

This plus there have been people saying that the Master is not for everyone. It can be wobbly.

The Abrams has a heavy motor and 22" tire. It is a wheel that is comfortable at higher speeds. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by techyiam

[Kekafuch]

Compared an Abrams 2110 motorcode to a newer 2111 motorcode. The only immediate difference is this PCB installed which I assume cleans up and simplifies the installation. 

[Tawpie]

ugh. Everyone else puts white goober pucky over the hall sensor wires and solder joints—it should provide stress and vibration relief. The 2111 motor code is scary looking.

[techyiam]

 

1 hour ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

@techyiam Weird, I’ve never had wobbles on my Abrams in any pedal mode. I find the wheel to be extremely stable, even more so than the Sherman.

I did however try V13 and had a sudden hard wobble at around 40 km/h or so during hard acceleration. Was worried I might go down but let off and recovered.

Thanks. Good to know.

What was your tire pressure? 

My Abrams is stock except for adding 4 capacitors to the controller board, and adding sealant to the fuse link boxes and tail light.

I get bad wobbles around 50 km/h and above, while not accelerating nor braking.

Pedal mode has big effect. Tire pressures seem to have some effect.

However, when I did a free spin test, the motor noise and vibration was almost nonexistent. The motor was whisper quiet, and the motor was super smooth. It ran monotonically to 98 km in one shot. Then the wheel was slowed to a stop. So I think the tire was mounted properly, and there is nothing odd that I could tell. 

I may have to gradually remove the cap mod and see if if introduced any new symptoms.

I know Chooch got a big wobble when he tried to brake on Jimmy Chang's Abrams. So I thought wobbles was to be expected on an Abrams. 

 

[Rebelfamly]

Have you inflate the tire to chek in if you havent hardened slime that unbalance the wheel? Many pple complained about that. Really dangerous.

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, Rebelfamly said:

Have you inflate the tire to chek in if you havent hardened slime that unbalance the wheel? Many pple complained about that. Really dangerous.

Thanks.

I have actually inspected the inside of the tire. There is no solidified tire sealant in there. In fact, the inside of the tire is clean of anything. I think they just glued the tire bead directly onto the rim.

[Kekafuch]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

Thanks.

I have actually inspected the inside of the tire. There is no solidified tire sealant in there. In fact, the inside of the tire is clean of anything. I think they just glued the tire bead directly onto the rim.

My Abrams had no tire sealant applied to it. The bead area was also clean of any adhesive. 
 

what I did notice … the screw just at the pedal that holds the battery side cover to the frame … the plastic on both side was cracked and sheared off. I used epoxy to reinforce. Having this anchor loose may cause an oscillation. I got vibration when braking hard or taking air off a speed bump and landing. Now seems ok but I also tightened up any loose bolts. 
 

edit … at the bottom of the battery side cover and the pedal hanger is 1/8” gap. I also added some material here to hold up the weight of the battery cases so not all the weight is on the fasteners. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Kekafuch

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Kekafuch said:

My Abrams had no tire sealant applied to it. The bead area was also clean of any adhesive. 

Actually, the tire beads on my Abrams are glued to the rim.

If your tire beads aren’t glued on, does your tire loses air?

1 hour ago, Kekafuch said:

what I did notice … the screw just at the pedal that holds the battery side cover to the frame … the plastic on both side was cracked and sheared off. I used epoxy to reinforce. Having this anchor loose may cause an oscillation. I got vibration when braking hard or taking air off a speed bump and landing. Now seems ok but I also tightened up any loose bolts.

Thank you for sharing your insight. On my Abrams, the mounting holes of the battery cases/side covers don’t line up with the screw holes in the frame. So there are a lot of stresses placed on the plastic covers. Now that I know they can crack, I will have to do something about that.

I will have to look into it more carefully to determine how to best resolve the mounting issues with the battery covers.

How are you liking your Abrams?

I find that the more I ride it, the more I like it.

Other than how refined and planted it feels at speeds, I can’t get over how great it can brake with the front bar.

[Kekafuch]

17 hours ago, techyiam said:

Actually, the tire beads on my Abrams are glued to the rim.

If your tire beads aren’t glued on, does your tire loses air?

Thank you for sharing your insight. On my Abrams, the mounting holes of the battery cases/side covers don’t line up with the screw holes in the frame. So there are a lot of stresses placed on the plastic covers. Now that I know they can crack, I will have to do something about that.

I will have to look into it more carefully to determine how to best resolve the mounting issues with the battery covers.

How are you liking your Abrams?

I find that the more I ride it, the more I like it.

Other than how refined and planted it feels at speeds, I can’t get over how great it can brake with the front bar.

 

The glue is obvious to see? My finger felt nothing along the rim or the tire. I have 5000km on the wheel and filled air less than a handful of times. 
 

i really like the Abrams ride characteristics. It actually loads into my car easier cause I park it in the front passenger footwell and I just roll it in. Fast charging is nice at 16amps. The wheel looks good. Feels safe riding in traffic. Avg speed is 5-8kmh faster than riding Sherman. Common fasteners. Control box is spotless. Runs cool. Great headlight. My axle is not sealed and inside the motor was dry and dirt free. 
 

When I got it, it was a bit over priced in my opinion. For $2999 Canadian, I think this is a good wheel if the 60-80km is range is enough. Also seems like a good platform to mod.

 

[techyiam]

4 minutes ago, Kekafuch said:

The glue is obvious to see? My finger felt nothing along the rim or the tire. I have 5000km on the wheel and filled air less than a handful of times.

No, I cannot see the glue. But if the tire is completely deflated, and the tire bead is not glued onto the rim, the tire bead would come off the rim by itself if you roll the wheel a bit. To properly seat the tire bead onto the rim again, I would have to remove the tire valve stem and pressurized the tire with a nozzle at a high air pressure.

12 minutes ago, Kekafuch said:

Feels safe riding in traffic. Avg speed is 5-8kmh faster than riding Sherman. Common fasteners. Control box is spotless. Runs cool. Great headlight.

+1. That headlight is so much better than my V12. If I turn on bright-beam, it's bright. I don't call it high beam because the beam pattern is exactly the same, but a lot brighter.

15 minutes ago, Kekafuch said:

My axle is not sealed and inside the motor was dry and dirt free. 

Good to know. I still have to do mine. 

[Jonah Hax]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:52 PM, Kekafuch said:

Fast charging is nice at 16amps.

 

16 amps???? I heard 15 amps was max but they don't recommend to go over 12 amps?

 

[Kekafuch]

 

[Chaky]

Hi everyone... 

Is there anyone who tried to stiffen the chasis? It really looks and feels flimsy. 

[RagingGrandpa]

14 minutes ago, Chaky said:

Is there anyone who tried to stiffen the chasis?

Regarding which EUC? 

[Chaky]

Veteran Abrams... 

I have one which "survived" crash, but is dislocated. I can easily scrape inner plastic part when steering the shell little harder. I also saw few comments that other people have the same issue. 

[techyiam]

14 hours ago, Chaky said:

Veteran Abrams... 

I have one which "survived" crash, but is dislocated. I can easily scrape inner plastic part when steering the shell little harder. I also saw few comments that other people have the same issue. 

We have Kevin (euc upgrades) to thank for that.

Originally, the bottom cross member was made from steel. Kevin complained that potentially it can rust. His complaint got back to Leaper Kim. Leaper Kim decided to make that structural component from aluminum alloy instead of steel, but made no other design changes. Yup, same dimensions even though aluminum alloy is a lot weaker than steel, and can fail in fatigue. This means the material can get weaker over time under load, especially if there is stress reversal. Also, when designing with aluminum alloy, typically designers use geometry to their advantage in order to minimize stress risers and maximum stresses. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by techyiam

[Chaky]

In my oppinion, there are few miss-points in the structure, and the biggest reason for flimsiness are too long and too week roll bars which should transfer  the axial "steering momentum" to the horizontal carrier. Also, central plastic mud protector could provide some stiffnes if it was more sturdier and connected to the control board housing. 

It is incredible for me that the forces from comming from mass of this heavy wheel in crash situation is concentrated on the 4 tiny screws marked in red. 

Roll bar/frame horizontal interconnections are also too weak and easily get deformed if crashed. 

Maybe this would work for 15kg wheel, but for this heavy beast it could be better. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Chaky