New Veteran "Abrams" 22-inch Wheel

[GoldenOne]

1 hour ago, Mrd777 said:

Viewing a FEW different cut-outs on the Abrams seen off Facebook, Instagram and youtube is very concerning. I read a response from LeaperKim that the wheel was a demo unit and production wheels have been addressed.  From what I see, these were production wheels in the field. These motor cuts were on braking..  Bad News.

I'd believe it if it was just one, or indeed one of the demo wheels sent to a retailer. 

 

But even ignoring the video that has been getting most of the attention, there have been two others which were actual retail units. So it seems that this is not the case. 

[gon2fast]

This is very unfortunate as I was really looking forward to a larger wheel with good build quality. There is some chatter about the demo units having a different motor than production, but I can't confirm nor do I trust that statement.

[Kekafuch]

5 hours ago, Ronin Ryder said:

 

Another great journalist quality piece! 

[Kekafuch]

7 hours ago, Mrd777 said:

Viewing a FEW different cut-outs on the Abrams seen off Facebook, Instagram and youtube is very concerning. I read a response from LeaperKim that the wheel was a demo unit and production wheels have been addressed.  From what I see, these were production wheels in the field. These motor cuts were on braking..  Bad News.

 

video 1 - Erides with a tall guy braking and it cut out. This one could be pre production as their wheel was delivered w the batteries separate. 

 

video 2 - Denis Hagov standing torque test and cut out. He claims online that the wheel was part of a 10 batch order for delivery.
 

video 3 - Igors Maslakovs braking with a bar span and cuts out. Seems like a third Abrams but not sure.

 

The thread on EUC Forum facebook group where the third video (Igor Maslakov) was posted and some comments by Mr Hagov and where ewheels email was posted is gone. 
 

edit - post is still there. Not deleted.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Kekafuch

[Ronin]

1 hour ago, Kekafuch said:

 

video 2 - Denis Hagov standing torque test and cut out. He claims online that the wheel was part of a 10 batch order for delivery.
 

Not "claim", it's real, he posted pictures of the stocks he received ready for (euc) sale.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Ronin Ryder

[Mrd777]

I asked Denis to test his other production wheels he has in stock, he replied he would give it a go with another Abrams and document it in a video… stay tuned.

[DjPanJan]

How i understand problem is here because bad/missing insulation somewhere? 

Or battery is just too weak(6p abrams vs 10p  sherman) for this big motor. 3500W is hudge but is only number MSP2500w and sherman 2500W looks similar but no way in real life gigantic diference in power.

Maybee becasue big tire diameter is problem for controler monster pro is "weak" in hard braking or aceleration too.

I remeber wrongway video where Adam overlean monster PRO simply by make aceleration test.

And this blue BLOB "drama" inside tire means somebody is hard incopentent in Veteran company they send absolutely without testing product to market we expect sherman competitor and not ALPHA version concept.

I just want High torque sherman i know i am too simply i not ride over 43km/h 28mp/h anyway ant they make Abrams just big WTF for me 🤦‍♀️ like heavy 🐷 rider. Why wtf because this 3500w motor is propably "speed motor" and this is bigest disapointment for me.

[DjPanJan]

 

[Mango]

Denis Hagov -

“Good One:) 6:45 leans but not cut off. so now I curious I remember the same wheel was overpowered on braking. So the story become more and more strange’

[Kekafuch]

From https://instagram.com/euc.oi?utm_medium=copy_link

 

 

[Kekafuch]

Lightweight rider but he has gone out of his way to share some pendulum testing of a batch 1 Abrams.

 

https://youtu.be/KskwXUkKCsM

 

 

[supercurio]

6 hours ago, Kekafuch said:

Lightweight rider but he has gone out of his way to share some pendulum testing of a batch 1 Abrams.

 

https://youtu.be/KskwXUkKCsM

It surprises me many didn't get that it's not at all about pendulum, it's about momentary over-power, and see what happens.

In this video, the wheel was over-powered 0 times in so many different ways, all of them ineffective.

Provided you have some kind of pads installed, anybody can over-power any wheel (even HT models) by slamming their shin into the front pads,
Without power pads, if you try a few times by pressing hard on the front of the pedals at speed 0.

I'm concerned that both distributors and users are showing how to evaluate their wheel with an invalid test, and will subsequently keep a defective wheel until someone gets hurt.

Edited December 10, 2021 by supercurio

[RagingGrandpa]

Quote

EUC.sale

Important Announcement !!!
LeaperKim Veteran Abrams First Batch.
After you receive and activate the wheel please perform the test provided in the video below. Push hard as you can in power pads forward and backward at least 10 times. If the wheel start lean forward and backward as provided on video but not switch off. then You are lucky and the wheel are in 100% working order. But if the wheel suddenly switch off and the E HALL message appear then the motor need to be changed. Please contact your dealer for future information and repair. PLEASE do not ride the wheel on public until this test are done. Stay safe.

https://www.facebook.com/100636518016437/videos/674903463666591

Umm... how about: the vendor does this test before shipping the wheel??

[Silver]

1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Umm... how about: the vendor does this test before shipping the wheel??

From what I understand they had already shipped them before they where aware there was a problem

[RagingGrandpa]

  Afeez mentioned "fix the issue with a firmware update"... kinda freaky, hope everything's physically OK with the motor sensors and this is just from normal production tolerances.

6 minutes ago, Afeez Kay said:

 

[Tawpie]

The braking cutout in Afeez's video was far too gentle to be caused by over power, so maybe the firmware change was to allow a bit more timing slop to account for hall sensor placement? Only Veteran knows for sure.

Odd to me that the wheel doesn't beep.

[That Guy]

I reckon maybe because of the unprecedented size of the motor, the controller takes the initial draw of current from idle as an overload and cuts it... And weirdly not every motor! (Is it because not every "customised" motor is born equal?). So, LeaperKim probably need to look into both parts of the equation - the motors and the firmware, and (Please!) come back to us with an explanation of what it was and how they fixed it.

BTW, by the look of it Denis Hagov deleted the second part of his Abrams review.

[DjPanJan]

Maybee overvoltage by braking.

Who knows time tell but i think this is not FW only fault if FW be that bad more cases be hapen example 3 of 10 euc  but is not or is rare documented cases.

Propably something SW+FW mix together or just hw issue in some rare cases.

Anyway hard braking hapends often.

I feel how weak sherman  2500w braking is compare to MSP C38 2500w every EUC have limit i expect pedal slowly "die" and not instant motor shutdown.

sherm vs MSP both have "2500"W but brake power torque motor give is significantly more compare to sherman and 3500W abrams is "Speed" motor maybe im wrong im not shure 46kg EUC + Rider in 30km/h is HUDGE amount of energy what this 3500W (speed)? motor need slow to zero..

Thanks to MR Hagof and others influencers shops participated on fixing this on the fly .

 

 

[gon2fast]

I am starting to think that the battery/motor may have worked well with the higher voltage configuration (or not as it never made it to market) and the issue could be with the 100V system. I look at the Sherman and Abrams stats and the newer model's setup makes no sense. Don't get me wrong, I want a large wheel and I am still in the queue*, but this is looking like a gamble with safety in its current state. 

On another hand, I feel that this situation could be salvageable if LK steps up and takes ownership. I suspect a "FW fix" will only slow the wheel down to compensate for what is actually going on under the shell. Some transparency around the current state of affairs with this model would be a good start.

IMHO

*not trying to proactively meet the pavement so probably not.

[InfiniteWheelie]

Do I have it correct that the Sherman has a 14 inch rim, and the Abrams 17 inch? If that's correct wouldn't the Abrams be better described as a 23 inch wheel?

14" rim + 3" wide, 100% height tire = 20 inches

17" rim + 3" wide, 100% height tire = 23 inches

Edited December 15, 2021 by InfiniteWheelie

[Denny Paul]

40 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

Do I have it correct that the Sherman has a 14 inch rim, and the Abrams 17 inch? If that's correct wouldn't the Abrams be better described as a 23 inch wheel?

I've been wondering this too; this is what i think so far but someone confirm/correct me if you know.

I think it's:

- Sherman = 14" rim, big ol' 3" off road tire so: 14" + 3" + 3" = 20" advertised. Real diameter is slightly larger given the knobby

- Abrams = 17" rim, big but not as big 3" tire so their marketing rounded down in their rough math: 17" + 2.5" + 2.5" = 22" advertised. Real diameter is closer to 22.5" which again makes it slightly more than advertised

- Monster pro = 18" rim, 3" street tire but they didn't bother rounding down: 18" + 3" + 3" = 24" advertised. Real diameter is closer to 23.5. Slightly less than advertised cause gotway dgaf

Edited December 15, 2021 by Denny Paul

[InfiniteWheelie]

So the Abrams is using a skinnier tire? Does anyone know the rim width on the Abrams?

Edited December 15, 2021 by InfiniteWheelie

[Denny Paul]

5 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

So the Abrams is using a skinnier tire? Does anyone know the rim width on the Abrams?

No the Abrams is still using a 3" tire. Something that's not common knowledge is that tire sizes tend to be over-reported values. Kind of like how at 34" inch waist for mens pants is really 36" or whatever; its done just to make the consumer feel better about what they're buying. For tires, if they say it's a 18" x 3" tire, the real world diameter is more like 2.75". I think Veteran factors this in to their advertised 22" inch wheel because they don't want to oversell anything. Gotway does not, and uses the 'glamour' tire sizing in their rough math.

if I recall correctly, the guys at eevee's said through their youtube video that the rim width was the same as the sherman v2 width, and also made of thicker/more durable metal. They didn't test it, this was based off of their first non-scientific impressions.

[InfiniteWheelie]

If that's true about overstated widths it's pretty surprising considering these are motorcycle tires. I assumed they would match their specs closely. I'd be interested to know the make and model number of the Abrams stock tire.

Edited December 15, 2021 by InfiniteWheelie

[fbhb]

6 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I'd be interested to know the make and model number of the Abrams stock tire.

I believe the stock Abrams tire model is a Kenda K254 2.75-17, as was used on the OG and V3 GotWay Monster. Ecodrift show some good clear photos and info regarding the Kenda fitment:

Quoted from the Ecodrift Abrams teardown: "Tire size 2.75 by 17".. This is a motorcycle (automotive) size. 17 inches is the diameter of the rim. 2.75" is the height of the tire. In total, we get 22.5" in external diameter. We already had a wheel in the same size – this is the Monster, which is without the Pro. And I remember not understanding why it was needed, so huge and heavy. Here. Get a new monster that's even heavier."

Edited December 16, 2021 by fbhb