WARNING KINGSONG PRODUCTS

[UniVehje]

9 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

If that's true & can be PROVEN to be true, then easy pheasy

There’s no one here that will prove how they do it. But it’s enough to look at the receipt and see that there’s no VAT. It’s really not that difficult.

[inmv0285]

So i bought my wheel on second hand market and now i'm fucked ?

i previously had a inmotion V5F for 1 year, and the KS16S is my second wheel, 

i buy second and because i didn't had 1500 euro to spend, and i was aware that i will not have any support because of that, but i was ok with it.

Now i learn that kingsong decided to lock anywheel that has this serial number? shouldnt have say that like earlier ? 

i never knew that they where special serial number non usable in europe! And this is only my second wheel ever, and first one from KS, was i suppose to be an expert and check serial number and all?!

seriously this is so bad, it's hard to believe.

i will never purchase any KS product again. 

[Rywokast]

27 minutes ago, inmv0285 said:

So i bought my wheel on second hand market and now i'm fucked ?

not if you dont connect to the app

[cobaltveva]

Bonjour,

Si vous avez acheté la roue avant juillet 2020, vous écrivez un mail à  KSsupport  et ils débloqueront votre roue.

voir le message publié, il y a 23 heures sur facebbok dont voici le lien:

https://www.facebook.com/kingsong.international/

[eve]

2 hours ago, inmv0285 said:

So i bought my wheel on second hand market and now i'm fucked ?

i previously had a inmotion V5F for 1 year, and the KS16S is my second wheel, 

i buy second and because i didn't had 1500 euro to spend, and i was aware that i will not have any support because of that, but i was ok with it.

Now i learn that kingsong decided to lock anywheel that has this serial number? shouldnt have say that like earlier ? 

i never knew that they where special serial number non usable in europe! And this is only my second wheel ever, and first one from KS, was i suppose to be an expert and check serial number and all?!

seriously this is so bad, it's hard to believe.

i will never purchase any KS product again. 

Youre completly safe if you dont install the Kingsong App. But since you bought the wheel used its most likely not 2020 version so just ask jack or kingsong supp to whitelist it for you.

[null]

When @mrelwood had to whitelist his 16S it was only valid 36h or so, so except confirmation otherwise, once whitelisted, do all your settings like it was the last time (including FW update with SoftTuner) then delete all KS apps and consider it frozen.. (maybe BT password so it don’t get accidentally connected somewhere)

Edited August 15, 2020 by null

[Meulebeest]

11 hours ago, null said:

They are not KS but High’tems the “exclusive” importer for a range of European countries, and very much a middle man. 

Thanks to them an 18XL cost 2500€ in every single shop in France. A 16S is 1500€.

To me they are the reason for much of this mess.

I looked further into the corporation and indeed:
Classification of company - (national business register)

Activity (NAF code)
4643Z: Wholesale (intercompany trade) of household electrical appliances

[inmv0285]

Yes i already deleted all KS app, (it was useless since i was not able to upgrade the firmware anyway)

from serial number it's a wheel from 2020, since it's surely bought before july 2020 i send them an email in hop that they would whitelist it, even if i don't have the purchase receipt.

thank you for your advise.

[Scottie888]

13 hours ago, FinRider said:

I get it that your angry. Imwas angry and majorly disappointed too when I heard what KS is doing. However, i analyzed the situation and came to the conclusion that KS are not the one entirely in the wrong here. 

Look the issue isn't me or whether I'm less than enamored with this debacle. The real truth is that KS was/is the master of its own destiny by embracing free market globalism with a multi tiered wholesale pricing business model. Due to the disparate economies, I can understand that.

However shouldn't we expect that their China dealers to also embrace the same free market globalism by selling worldwide? Because of the disparate wholesale pricing model, we have disparate retail pricing....duhhhh surprise surprise!

As consumers, we were/are being dangled with the proverbial apple so hence, some (I imagine many many) took a bite. Are we wrong by taking advantage of the discounts made available by of all ppl, KS themselves? Isn't this the very definition of a competitive free market?

Now KS is implementing a draconian (& there I say bullying) tactic of deliberately locking legally purchased products made available with free market globalism at prices made available via KS's business model. Its not only wrong but IMO detestable & contemptuous on so many levels. So what KS's really saying is what's good for me is NOT for thee so hence, thee shall be punished!

What irks me more is the KS apologists (& enablers IMO) coming up with excuses of tax evasion & inferior domestic models BS causing the disparate pricing. How do I know its BS? Besides the fact that there's ZERO evidence of either, I present the VETERAN SHERMAN. It's Ali pricing isn't less by much (if any) of our local pricing in NA atleast (sans local sales taxes ofcos). If we need more, the Inmotion V11's pricing is similar. Both of these examples blows the tax cheat theory out of the water.

Everyone should be outraged by this KS sh*tfest! KS caused all this by their lonesome, not the consumer. KS made it's bed all it's lonesome but forces us, the consumer to sleep on it. Is this right? Is this fair? Is this acceptable?

I'm making my choice to DECOUPLE from any KS product henceforth. The rest of yous can make your own choices but beware that we deserve the company(pun intended) we keep.

PS: Pardon the long rant. I'm just beyond the pale by Kingsong's contemptible behavior.  

[eve]

17 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

Look the issue isn't me or whether I'm less than enamored with this debacle. The real truth is that KS was/is the master of its own destiny by embracing free market globalism with a multi tiered wholesale pricing business model. Due to the disparate economies, I can understand that.

However shouldn't we expect that their China dealers to also embrace the same free market globalism by selling worldwide? Because of the disparate wholesale pricing model, we have disparate retail pricing....duhhhh surprise surprise!

As consumers, we were/are being dangled with the proverbial apple so hence, some (I imagine many many) took a bite. Are we wrong by taking advantage of the discounts made available by of all ppl, KS themselves? Isn't this the very definition of a competitive free market?

Now KS is implementing a draconian (& there I say bullying) tactic of deliberately locking legally purchased products made available with free market globalism at prices made available via KS's business model. Its not only wrong but IMO detestable & contemptuous on so many levels. So what KS's really saying is what's good for me is NOT for thee so hence, thee shall be punished!

What irks me more is the KS apologists (& enablers IMO) coming up with excuses of tax evasion & inferior domestic models BS causing the disparate pricing. How do I know its BS? Besides the fact that there's ZERO evidence of either, I present the VETERAN SHERMAN. It's Ali pricing isn't less by much (if any) of our local pricing in NA atleast (sans local sales taxes ofcos). If we need more, the Inmotion V11's pricing is similar. Both of these examples blows the tax cheat theory out of the water.

Everyone should be outraged by this KS sh*tfest! KS caused all this by their lonesome, not the consumer. KS made it's bed all it's lonesome but forces us, the consumer to sleep on it. Is this right? Is this fair? Is this acceptable?

I'm making my choice to DECOUPLE from any KS product henceforth. The rest of yous can make your own choices but beware that we deserve the company(pun intended) we keep.

PS: Pardon the long rant. I'm just beyond the pale by Kingsong's contemptible behavior.  

Sherman still cost more in EU then in China or US. I dont know anything about taxes but pricis S18 at the same price as V11 is BS.

[Scottie888]

4 hours ago, eve said:

Sherman still cost more in EU then in China or US. I dont know anything about taxes but pricis S18 at the same price as V11 is BS.

I don't live in the EU so I can’t comment on matters there. All’s I know is the Sherman & V11 pricing on Ali & our local online here in North America is similar enough to make any differences insignificant. As such, the numbers show there can’t be any duties being circumvented. So the only viable reason left for price discrepancies is wholesale product cost unless someone is claiming that KS’s products are the exception with different duties/tax structures.

Honestly I can understand KS wanting to implement an exclusive distribution strategy with specific geographical territories. What I have an issue with is the way they are going about on the execution. Does KS not realise the ppl being affected (PUNISHED to be more specific) are their own customers? No matter which retail source, these are KS’s customers. By their actions, KS shows only scorn & contempt for these very customers.

Being in Sales/Marketing, gaining new customers isn’t that hard. Retaining them is harder but transforming them into loyal customers is the hardest & is the aspiration goal of many if not most Companies. What do you think Kingsong is doing & showing with these actions?

[Antec]

Ks have confirmed today they are working on getting my wheel (16x P model May 2020 from Ali) unlocked as per recent announcement.

Will keep you all informed on how long it takes.

[StuartL]

5 minutes ago, Antec said:

Ks have confirmed today they are working on getting my wheel (16x P model May 2020 from Ali) unlocked as per recent announcement.

This is wonderful news, hope that it all happens very quickly for you @Antec.

[Gerrycorrado]

What's stopping them from randomly killing your machine after x amount of time (like 2 years and x weeks, in case of europe, juuust outside of warranty...) 

Nope, not ethical.. 

[Scottie888]

7 hours ago, Gerrycorrado said:

What's stopping them from randomly killing your machine after x amount of time (like 2 years and x weeks, in case of europe, juuust outside of warranty...) 

Nope, not ethical.. 

What's stopping KS from arbitrarily killing machines IF they have YUUUGE fallout with the current FOTM distributor/dealer? Will KS then decide to brick all wheels sold by the now disfavored dealer/s if the new FOTM distributor/dealer makes such request? Will KS also brick all unsold wheels left in stock by said ex "official" dealer?

I think we all know the rabbit hole this type of arbitrary despicable behavior goes....

The sad part is Kingsong has to be one of the dumbest companies I've seen in a longtime. Instead of the clusterf*^k, how difficult is it to register their customers & develop a database from all of its sales (Ali, Ewheels, Euco or whomever). With that database, how difficult would it be to implement a loyalty program that can promote not only repeat sales but also "gently" guide their customers to the region dealers with just a bit of incentives. This isn't rocket science folks.

Instead KS chooses to kill & destroy. I guess Kingsong doesn't know that TRUST TAKES YEARS TO BUILD, SECONDS TO DESTROY & FOREVER TO REPAIR.

[MrP-MrF]

10 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

The sad part is Kingsong has to be one of the dumbest companies I've seen in a longtime. Instead of the clusterf*^k, how difficult is it to register their customers & develop a database from all of its sales (Ali, Ewheels, Euco or whomever). With that database, how difficult would it be to implement a loyalty program that can promote not only repeat sales but also "gently" guide their customers to the region dealers with just a bit of incentives. This isn't rocket science folks.

Instead KS chooses to kill & destroy. I guess Kingsong doesn't know that TRUST TAKES YEARS TO BUILD, SECONDS TO DESTROY & FOREVER TO REPAIR.

Because this is pure Bullshit (sorry, it's the truth) from Kingsong... 

Do you really believe that ks sells wheels to Chinese sellers who market a lot of them saying to themselves "oh they sell well in Asian markets" 
Why, curiously, does the Ks application need geolocation? You sincerely believe that ks sold wheels without knowing where they were going.

It's just that some official dealers are putting the pressure on.
But I agree that blocking this is not correct. What's the next step ? Blocking because too many kilometers ?

[Yxzygäilijä]

1 hour ago, MrP-MrF said:

What's the next step ? Blocking because too many kilometers ?

And then they will explain it by saying: "It's safety feature. Batteries do not last riding anymore."

[Brandin J. Mercer]

Bought my my 16x from Chicway, last winter,  my serial number seems fine and has an F and not a P, but wow, now I'm nervous just to load the ks app and do any firmware updates.  Like what happens when they get pissed off with a particular market such as the US or Uk, and decide to just flip us the bird and lock everyone's wheels that are not in mainland China. Its a scary thought, and as excited as I was to see the s18 I think i'll go with the v11 to get my new wheel fix. 

[Rywokast]

16 minutes ago, Brandin J. Mercer said:

Bought my my 16x from Chicway, last winter,  my serial number seems fine and has an F and not a P, but wow, now I'm nervous just to load the ks app and do any firmware updates.  Like what happens when they get pissed off with a particular market such as the US or Uk, and decide to just flip us the bird and lock everyone's wheels that are not in mainland China. Its a scary thought, and as excited as I was to see the s18 I think i'll go with the v11 to get my new wheel fix. 

dont open their app.... you dont ever need to.. wheel rides good? dont update firmware, gw wheels cant.. the only issue is with second hand and people who dont know about this.. otherwise it couldnt be easier to avoid

[Scottie888]

2 hours ago, MrP-MrF said:

Because this is pure Bullshit (sorry, it's the truth) from Kingsong... 

Do you really believe that ks sells wheels to Chinese sellers who market a lot of them saying to themselves "oh they sell well in Asian markets" 
Why, curiously, does the Ks application need geolocation? You sincerely believe that ks sold wheels without knowing where they were going.

It's just that some official dealers are putting the pressure on.
But I agree that blocking this is not correct. What's the next step ? Blocking because too many kilometers ?

Never thought of that but you're absolutely correct Mon Ami! With geo tracking, Kingsong KNEW way back when where all their wheels where/are & they KNEW where all their so called domestic china wheels were ending up! I guess there goes KS's song & dance about safety issues with domestic units.

KS KNEW & did nothing about stopping exportation of domestic units. With the combo of geo-serial# tracking, KS also KNEW which China dealers were/are selling what & to whom. So this proves KS KNOWS which dealers are the guilty party of their so called exportation restrictions & did nothing. KS could have put a stop to it from the beginning but they didn't which means KS approved.

Is it because KS believes the we in the West are suckers so much so they can arbitrarily brick the wheels they let export out (after getting paid) so we will have to repurchase again? If I didn't know better, I would think this is some diabolical plan hatched by Dr. Evil in an Austin Powers movie.

[Daley1]

@Seba is there any way to work around the geolocking issue or is there any software u could use to outsmart these clowns?????U could develop and for a small fee unlock these geolocked wheels and then provide advice to stop it reoccuring!

[null]

Seba can’t deal with such or he won’t get access to the info he needs for development.

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, Daley1 said:

@Seba 

 

1 hour ago, Daley1 said:

is there any way to work around the geolocking issue or is there any software u could use to outsmart these clowns?????U could develop and for a small fee unlock these geolocked wheels and then provide advice to stop it reoccuring!

@Seba and @Ilya Shkolnik, the creator of darknesbot signed a non disclosure agreement with KS. By this they got the protocoll and are not allowed to support any wheel that is not suposed to be sold outside the chinese market.

[Vanzen]

There  is a  way....

Change the serial number before connecting to KS app ...

I think our Russian friends already have the solution ...

There will always be a way and KS is loosing its  time and worse, getting a bad reputation alongside ....

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Vanzen

[Tinkererboi]

2 hours ago, Vanzen said:

There  is a  way....

Change the serial number before connecting to KS app .

Could you share the instructuons here?