WARNING KINGSONG PRODUCTS

[MrP-MrF]

The answer is very simple. I had a lot of wheels, and I ended up always selling the other brands for Kingsong.
My wife is learning to ride a KS14M but obviously testing an 18 inch makes her feel better. So in a few weeks we will be buying a new wheel.
Given the situation, I regret having bought an S18 (if someone from Belgium wants it, it arrives in the first batch, I sell it). Well beyond I think that it will go towards inmotion v11 and for the wheel of madam a V8F.

Kingsong must leave the buyers' choice.
Buy via ALI = no guarantee, cheaper price
Buy via local dealer = warranty, more expensive.

I ALWAYS bought from a local dealer for warranty, service and buy local.
I refuse a policy of repression as ks does now and I am extremely disappointed.
Now for a transient wheel or an initiation wheel, ks is out.

[Planemo]

22 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

And for you cheap bastards buying from ALI to save money. This is also YOUR fault and I have ZERO sympathy if you get a brick. I dont care if you think an euc costs too much. If you cant pony up to buy it from an authorized reseller, maybe you shouldnt fukn buy one, or look for used.

Whilst I am sure that quote will irritate many members no end, I myself do agree with it, even despite me being in your bracket of an 'ali buyer just to save money'.

We know the risks of buying on Ali, and each and every one of us has a 'risk level' that we are prepared to accept. For me, should I recieve a DOA Gotway, I know that I can very likely fix it without having to lose the entire value of the wheel. Unless the motor, board, batts and bms are all fubar which is highly unlikely hence its a risk I am prepared to take. Buying a KS that may never be able to run because I cant get a board to work is a risk that I wont take.

Ultimately, the risk of buying a KS wheel from China has now reached such a level that no amount of cheapness will entice me to buy one. And at this point I agree with you - buy from an AD or dont bother. I use an analogy...I cant afford to buy a Bentley from an AD...and although many of us could scrape up enough to buy one from KerbSide Autos, would we...really....? No.

Whether people agree with KS policy is kinda irrelevant imo. KS have simply just put many of their customers into a decision making process akin to buying a high end watch, car or other big dollar product which, if not officially sourced, is a huge, massive gamble. I honestly dont get why people are so incensed at KS - similar practices and the forcing of cheap ass buyers into taking huge risks is everywhere.

For the record, I dont agree with KS policy, but I do, thankfully, still have 100% control over my choices. Its no big deal for me, I cant afford an AD Kingsong, just like I cant afford an AD Bentley (or Rolex, Lamborghini etc etc..).

I do however have huge sympathy for those that purchased grey imports before this KS announcement as the 'risk goalposts' were moved massively. Which is why I feel that full refunds should be given by the seller. The question of return carriage costs will be a difficult one though...if the seller was unaware of the policy...and the buyer knew he was taking some risk buying from Ali...its all a bit messy. Good Luck is all I can say.

[meriwald]

Is there a chance that the original post was set up to deliver KingSong message  and scare off people from AliExpress. so their fat-dogs-dealers can keep getting away with never having wheels and parts in stock, don’t knowing how to service and maintain the wheel and ridiculously pricing them at the same time  (except very few very good and dedicated dealers around the world who are really good in knowing their trade) 

and that set up went really wrong 😁

so when they realized that it’s going too far they  decided to “unlock” the wheel but won’t “unlock” for anyone else )) 
 

you never know what ccp members have prepared for you 

 

[totally joking, I know this is a real case. ]

[Unventor]

I seem to recall something similar was announced about 2 years ago. And it isn't just KS but IM too. Their approach is different but the result they want is the same. It was a bit simpler before as KS had a domesting brand and a International brand.

I also fully agree that some might be in an unfortunate situation, but if you choose to buy something aboard then you should expect same rules do not apply what you are used to. Buying 2nd hard, well do your research before you buy anything. 

I also fully agree that if you can't afford the wheel at your local authorized reseller, well then you shouldn't get into this. as you can end up needing a repair and that you cannot afford either. 

Now I bought 3 of my wheels as local as I could get them (Poland as I live in Sweden, we have no local Swedish reseller). 2 I bought directly from Manufactor globally. If I had the options to buy at local shop in my region, I would do that despit it might cost more. Local service is something I really miss. And it is the local market both KS and IM are trying to build up.

It is just as simple as DVD region coding. The reason to do that is the same reason we are discussing this here.

[davinche]

Like I said, I think there are legitimate reasons to lock wheels.

For example: let's consider a hypothetical wheres EUC manufacturers want to comply with local laws. They might introduce software speed limits to comply with law. They might want to region lock certain wheels to avoid liability. Things are seldom black and white - whether a manufacturer should have the ability to remotely lock your wheel just another example where the answer is probably grey.

[Scottie888]

26 minutes ago, davinche said:

Like I said, I think there are legitimate reasons to lock wheels.

For example: let's consider a hypothetical wheres EUC manufacturers want to comply with local laws. They might introduce software speed limits to comply with law. They might want to region lock certain wheels to avoid liability. Things are seldom black and white - whether a manufacturer should have the ability to remotely lock your wheel just another example where the answer is probably grey.

Oya? Really?? What if your iphone or whatever phone gets locked after u purchased it legally? Would u ok if the mfgr says well we lock it cos u didn't buy it at the locale they desired?

Incase we are unaware, its my property once its legally purchased. MY PROPERTY! NOT KINGSONG'S NOT THE CC Company I used, NOT MY NEIGHBORS & DAMN WELL NOT ANYONE ELSES! Who da hell gives anyone the right to lock my property???

I can understand such legal punitives if the product is PROVEN stolen but otherwise, ITS MY PROPERTY!

I REST MY CASE

Edited August 12, 2020 by Scottie888

[SamSuffit]

17 minutes ago, davinche said:

Like I said, I think there are legitimate reasons to lock wheels.

For example: let's consider a hypothetical wheres EUC manufacturers want to comply with local laws. They might introduce software speed limits to comply with law. They might want to region lock certain wheels to avoid liability. Things are seldom black and white - whether a manufacturer should have the ability to remotely lock your wheel just another example where the answer is probably grey.

No. I dont know a single country where using it on private land at max speed is forbidden.

The only reason to lock a wheel could be thieft.

Concerning price: in several european countries, prices are very much inflated vs other region (example in france: Ks18xl 2500€, ks s18 2300€, rougly 70% more expensive than chinese seller). Even if VAT is not at all paid (which i highly doubt, i think at least partially paid) and service/guaranty inexistant, it is not surprising a grey market exist.

KS seems indeed to care more about sellers and their oligopoles than customer. Message received, unless there is a policy change, i'll buy another brand when i need/want to change my wheel.

[davinche]

26 minutes ago, SamSuffit said:

No. I dont know a single country where using it on private land at max speed is forbidden.

Okay... then change the hypothetical from "private land" to "public".

[.....]

9 minutes ago, davinche said:

Okay... then change the hypothetical from "private land" to "public".

No rule that says you can't ride ONLY on private land. I think you're trying to negate his point and I'm not buyin' it. I've owned many vehicles that were illegal to operate on public roads and land. Still didnt have a right to geo lock them or prevent me from enjoying them LEGALLY on private lands and trails. ALL my cars go faster than ANY speed limit in the USA. Doesnt mean I have to break the law, but the car manufacturers also arent in charge of making sure I cant.

Edited August 12, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Rywokast]

1 hour ago, davinche said:

Okay... then change the hypothetical from "private land" to "public".

who gives a shit, that doesn't have anything to do with them... what the max speed your car can do? and where is it legal to do that speed? NOT the manufacturers problem, they need to get the hell out of this bullshit or they will lose many sales

[davinche]

47 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

No rule that says you can't ride ONLY on private land. I think you're trying to negate his point and I'm not buyin' it. I've owned many vehicles that were illegal to operate on public roads and land. Still didnt have a right to geo lock them or prevent me from enjoying them LEGALLY on private lands and trails. ALL my cars go faster than ANY speed limit in the USA. Doesnt mean I have to break the law, but the car manufacturers also arent in charge of making sure I cant.

My original point was to posit that there might be a scenario in which remotely locking a device is justifiable. The hypothetical I made was to illustrate a situation in which I think the action could be justified. I didn't go into the very intricacies of public versus private usage. Nor did I venture into other areas such as standards, compliance, certifications etc, all of which would need to be considered if EUCs were to be subjected to formal legalization.

So you can argue that using it on private property is legal, I'm just questioning whether or not that is the only factor to consider. Eg: if there were laws that govern PMDs as a public transportation device,  would that change anything?

[eve]

Dear @Jack King Song i know this wasnt your decision but i would like to relay message to your upper managment:

"Dear Kingsong you do not know what youre playing with. Losing customers which you will is the least of your worries. 

Until now, EUC hacking hasnt been deemed necessary since apps like Darknessbot and EUC World provide a lot of options.

But you just issued a challenge here to every hacker/programmer on the planet. I sincerely hope it will be the EUCW or Darknessbot getting hacked for your sake! 

Because the other option is Custom Firmware on any Kingsong EUC. If you continue this practice it will happen eventually! 

And in 2 years your brand might become synonymous with custom firmware and im not talking about unlocking. Im talking about people getting remove speed limits, tilt cut-out angle completly and other potentionally dangerous stuff.

It might happen that what ever control you have over safety and limitation of your products will be gone completly. 

You playing with fire here and you should stop while you can, if its not too late already!"

Edited August 13, 2020 by eve

[meriwald]

I've heard they are changing their brand name to KingLockSong to better reflect the new approach 

Couldn't  insert the leaked video promo for some reason but it says here:

"LockSong GEO18 -  ride it anywhere within your backyard"

 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by meriwald

[FinRider]

3 hours ago, Rywokast said:

who gives a shit, that doesn't have anything to do with them... what the max speed your car can do? and where is it legal to do that speed? NOT the manufacturers problem, they need to get the hell out of this bullshit or they will lose many sales

This relates directly to how certain vehicles are classified and regulated here in europe as some are mandated by law to be governed to a certain speed limit. This technically already exists for EUC’s - max 25 km/h.

For example a moped in finland is only allowed to go 45 km/h. If the police catch you going faster, then you will get a ticket, they will remove your license plate and you will have to remove any modifications that you have done to the moped to have it go faster than 45 km/h before you get your plates back.

the same mopeds that are governed to 45km/h when sold here go 60 km/h when sold elsewhere. These are prohibited to be sold, however, it is very easy to modify the moped to get it from 45 to 60 km/h. This is allowed, but then you can no longer use the moped on public roads. On private property you can do whatever you want, heck i started driving cars on my friends families fields when i was 13.

 

[Rywokast]

3 minutes ago, FinRider said:

This relates directly to how certain vehicles are classified and regulated here in europe as some are mandated by law to be governed to a certain speed limit. This technically already exists for EUC’s - max 25 km/h.

For example a moped in finland is only allowed to go 45 km/h. If the police catch you going faster, then you will get a ticket, they will remove your license plate and you will have to remove any modifications that you have done to the moped to have it go faster than 45 km/h before you get your plates back.

the same mopeds that are governed to 45km/h when sold here go 60 km/h when sold elsewhere. These are prohibited to be sold, however, it is very easy to modify the moped to get it from 45 to 60 km/h. This is allowed, but then you can no longer use the moped on public roads. On private property you can do whatever you want, heck i started driving cars on my friends families fields when i was 13.

 

interesting, there's nothing like that in North America that I'm aware of unless it's a new technology.. we hate regulation and such government oversight

[FinRider]

5 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

interesting, there's nothing like that in North America that I'm aware of unless it's a new technology.. we hate regulation and such government oversight

I know... we are socialist-democrats here in europe while you are rightwing-nutjobs there on the other side of the pond.

[Scottie888]

2 minutes ago, FinRider said:

I know... we are socialist-democrats here in europe while you are rightwing-nutjobs there on the other side of the pond.

Not anymore. All the "Nutts" are lefties & right have all have all the "Jobs"

[meriwald]

I know its a serious topic but it is not going anywhere anyway, if your wheel is locked you can unlock (DM me to learn how), meanwhile check out this fake news:

The guy left the allowed geo zone and boom - updated firmware locked the wheel on the go

Edited August 13, 2020 by meriwald

[FinRider]

2 hours ago, meriwald said:

The guy left the allowed geo zone and boom - updated firmware locked the wheel on the go

I seriously doubt that is what happened here. The geo-locking as I understand it would not allow you to ride the wheel in the first place. 

It is worrisome though, because something did cause the cutout. We need more logs & info to determine what the real cause is. He is leaning pretty heavily when it cuts out.

On another note, this video illustrates the importance of gearing up... no wrist/knee/elbow pads, which in my book are a bare minimum. I hope he is OK.

 

[Wolverine]

14 minutes ago, FinRider said:

I seriously doubt that is what happened here. The geo-locking as I understand it would not allow you to ride the wheel in the first place. 

It is worrisome though, because something did cause the cutout. We need more logs & info to determine what the real cause is. He is leaning pretty heavily when it cuts out.

On another note, this video illustrates the importance of gearing up... no wrist/knee/elbow pads, which in my book are a bare minimum. I hope he is OK.

 

It's a fake my friend :-)

[Rywokast]

3 hours ago, meriwald said:

I know its a serious topic but it is not going anywhere anyway, if your wheel is locked you can unlock (DM me to learn how), meanwhile check out this fake news:

The guy left the allowed geo zone and boom - updated firmware locked the wheel on the go

 

right in front of a crowd of people, how embarrassing

[Antec]

@Jack King Song Please can you update us when you hear back from management?, your reply is most anticipated and could be make or break for some consumers ready to buy a KingSong product.

Thank You

 

 

[meriwald]

8 hours ago, FinRider said:

I seriously doubt that is what happened here. The geo-locking as I understand it would not allow you to ride the wheel in the first place. 

It is worrisome though, because something did cause the cutout. We need more logs & info to determine what the real cause is. He is leaning pretty heavily when it cuts out.

On another note, this video illustrates the importance of gearing up... no wrist/knee/elbow pads, which in my book are a bare minimum. I hope he is OK.

 

Cmon man, it’s clearly says “check out this fake news” 😁😁

[meriwald]

2 hours ago, Antec said:

@Jack King Song Please can you update us when you hear back from management?, your reply is most anticipated and could be make or break for some consumers ready to buy a KingSong product.

Thank You

 

 

I’m pretty sure they don’t give a fukk about our small tread with 10 ppl. We have to spread this info on wider audience, share on your social media, help people around learn about true values of LockSong

[Meulebeest]

6 minutes ago, meriwald said:

Cmon man, it’s clearly says “check out this fake news” 😁😁

You mean the video and photo, that is indeed fake news ...
The Geo-locking is NOT fake news, it is confirmed as the actual policy at KingSong today.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Meulebeest