WARNING KINGSONG PRODUCTS

[Scottie888]

26 minutes ago, Unventor said:

.... KS is trying to tidy up resellers not complying to standards they want from.their brand. 

In your entire post, I agree with (&only with) the above snippet. You called it rightly & correctly there & I quote ."..KS is trying to tidy up resellers not complying to ....blah blah blah."

So go tidy up whatever whomever however their own resellers! WTF does it have to do with the end users who paid good money of which KS also got their cut! 

Everyone knows of gray market risks of warrany & support (& lack thereof) concerns. Its up to the buyer to make their own choices & incase we're unaware, its call the free market. If KS does not want China resellers selling worldwide, then stop their own resellers by not selling to those resellers. WTF does it have to do with locking privately owned property?

Seems KS wants to have its cake & eat it too. I would take them to small claims court if they were based locally but since I cant sue in Lawless CCPland, I do the next best thing. I tell 'em to F%*^#$%K OFF & will never give them a cent of my hard earned money!

[FinRider]

There are several different things going on here. 
 

1. KS is supplying the domestic (chinese) distributors with wheels intended for the domestic market.  
2. The domestic distributors/resellers dont care and sell & ship to (mainly) european buyers. 
3. Ks cant control the domestic distributors, so they render the products useless if sold (used) outside of china. 
 

i can’t 100% fault them, as they supplied a local reseller with product intended for the domestic market. If used outside of the area, then the product is not licensed to be used. Hence the geolocking. 
 

The responsibility is clearly put on the reseller (ali, chickway, etc). They are the ones to blame, not KS. Granted, ks could cut them off, but then the next guy in line would do the same. 
 

The chinese resellers sell the wheels for 25-40% less than retail in europe. This is bc they have found a way to circumvent the duty and tax (vat) requirements. 
 

as a buyer, you should be well aware of this. So in other words, you are NOT comitting tax fraud but you are surely aiding and abetting tax fraud, which in itself is a crime. If a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is. 
 

we can all blame KS for this behaviour, but they are truly not to be blamed, the blame is with the reseller who cheat the system and the customer who enables this, either by ignorance or on purpose. 
 

i still think its a bad policy and bad PR on KIngSongs part. They should have been more active in the community and explained their actions. It would have helped them save face. 

[Unventor]

16 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

Everyone knows of gray market risks of warrany & support (& lack thereof) concerns. Its up to the buyer to make their own choices & incase we're unaware, its call the free market. If KS does not want China resellers selling worldwide, then stop their own resellers by not selling to those resellers. WTF does it have to do with locking privately owned property?

Seems KS wants to have its cake & eat it too. I would take them to small claims court if they were based locally but since I cant sue in Lawless CCPland, I do the next best thing. I tell 'em to F%*^#$%K OFF & will never give them a cent of my hard earned money!

They have tried. 

But these resellers find different channels. The only way to truly stop this is the way KS is doing. 

The resellers making easy money in the wrong way have to face up to the customers bad experience. 

Now you might see it like that but it is how it works too in different products too. Both in elections, it and cars just to mention some. 

[Scottie888]

7 minutes ago, Unventor said:

They have tried. 

But these resellers find different channels. The only way to truly stop this is the way KS is doing. 

The resellers making easy money in the wrong way have to face up to the customers bad experience. 

Now you might see it like that but it is how it works too in different products too. Both in elections, it and cars just to mention some. 

As a customer who's paying good money, I DON'T CARE HOW TOUGH BUSINESS IS FOR KS. Similarly I don't bitch to KS or anyone else for that matter how tough my job is nor how hard is it to make a living. C'EST LA VIE!

It KS's distribution issue & only their issue, NOT MINE nor ANYONE ELSES. So go solve it by not F*^#@King your base customers. Otherwise, its not hard to imagine their won't be a business left to solve.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Scottie888

[eve]

@null When did he order it? 

[Scottie888]

42 minutes ago, FinRider said:

 

as a buyer, you should be well aware of this. So in other words, you are NOT comitting tax fraud but you are surely aiding and abetting tax fraud, which in itself is a crime. If a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is. 
 

Wrong! Who are you to say buyers are aiding & abetting tax fraud. I pay duties/sales taxes on any product I import when customs clears it. If there's tax fraud, then its in your mind & only your mind. So speak for yourself & don't generalize everyone.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Scottie888

[null]

3 minutes ago, eve said:

@null When did he order it? 

Chicway (alias green and fashion) so his recent claims about only selling international versions are bull..

Edited August 14, 2020 by null

[Rywokast]

48 minutes ago, FinRider said:

as a buyer, you should be well aware of this. So in other words, you are NOT comitting tax fraud but you are surely aiding and abetting tax fraud, which in itself is a crime. If a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is.

sales tax is a fraud anyways, I would gladly circumvent it in any way possible whenever possible

[FinRider]

13 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

Wrong! Who are you to say buyers are aiding & abetting tax fraud. I pay duties/sales taxes on any product I import when customs clears it. If there's tax fraud, then its in your mind & only your mind. So speak for yourself & don't generalize everyone.

I will not get into a pissing contest over this as you clearly do not understand how these guys cheat the system. If you buy from chicway, you do not pay the duties and taxes as they claim that they have paid it for you. Do you honestly believe that they actually pay this?

Normally your purchase would be shipped direcly from china to your house, and the it is up to your local customs to intercept the package and have you declare for what you purchased. (if customs fail to do this, then it is on them, not on you).

here is the direct quote from their website

02: Overseas ware-house delivery
Ware-house in Spain, the United States, Canada, and China will be established. Gradually shorten the delivery period of all products to less than 10 days.

03: Shipping and taxes
We bear the shipping costs and duties on delivery. The goods are directly door to door. You only have to wait for the arrival of the goods at home. We use UPS, FEDEX, GLS, DHL... fast delivery service
 

[meriwald]

I think they forgot to use their refreshed branding in that notice,  let me fix it

Edited August 15, 2020 by meriwald

[Scottie888]

31 minutes ago, FinRider said:

I will not get into a pissing contest over this as you clearly do not understand how these guys cheat the system. If you buy from chicway, you do not pay the duties and taxes as they claim that they have paid it for you. Do you honestly believe that they actually pay this?
 

Wrong again! When you start accusing others of aiding & abetting crimes, where I'm from, them's fighting words. You better have EVIDENCE to back em up, not what you believe, not what you guess & certainly not what you assume. Either you have the evidence to back it up or ppl might call its DonkeyDung.

Far's I'm concerned, if the product goes through the import process & clears customs, then its legal. If goes through under declared in value, well good for them & good for me as I'm not a fan of the taxman. Its customs job to clear imported goods not mine & it definitely does not make me abetting whatever. Unless ofcos the goods are smuggled into the country & shown to be so. If you feel you have the evidence, then do feel free to snitch to the appropriate authorities to feed your need to virtue signal.

If guesstimation, insinuations & conjectures are the laws of the day, then you better hope no one accuses you of being a thief (or worse). While these are just words, sometimes words have consequences. Too bad I don't subscribe to the CCP school of intimidation & coercion  or I might take your words seriously.

[RockyTop]

Selling things to other countries is more ridiculous than many think. I sell plastic stands. A $30 product can end up costing over $100.  I sold a stand to someone in ..........  If I remember correctly Italy.  I decided to read the the list of things that you can not sell to someone in Italy. I expected to find items like Guns, Ammo, Alcohol,  Drugs,  animals ,  Fruit ,  that kind of thing. What I found was, No money or coins. No gold or jewelry No shoes or footwear. No leather products.  .   Why!!??   Sorry, No shoes for You!!  I never would have guessed.  ( I understand the money and gold but I don't Like it   )

Edited August 14, 2020 by RockyTop

[UniVehje]

37 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

Unless ofcos the goods are smuggled into the country

That’s how it’s done. They either ship by train (and pay someone) or have a container going through Europe to a third country so they don’t need to declare at customs. Then some items “accidentally” disappear from the container (again paying someone to turn a blind eye) and that item gets shipped within EU (free trade area) and not going through customs at the target country. The wheels are never going through customs. They’re abusing the European common market system and the new (or southern) EU member countries with higher corruption rates. This is very unfair for the local resellers who cannot match the prices. And it’s in everyone’s interest to have local shops promoting the hobby. The “P” versions probably wouldn’t even qualify to be sold within EU and therefore are cheaper. 
 

However, the practice of remotely locking someone’s property is the wrong way of dealing with this issue. I’m not against trying to mitigate black market imports per se. But there are better methods that don’t punish those riders who are not aware of this discussion. 

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

On 8/6/2020 at 9:50 PM, Meulebeest said:

(my inital message: KSS18 > in US 1600 EUR, in RUS 1400 EUR, in EU 2250 EUR ...)

In Ireland 2600 EUR

Edited August 14, 2020 by Jean Dublin

[Meulebeest]

26 minutes ago, Jean Dublin said:

In Ireland 2600 EUR

Yeah, your one of the fun countries. There are some advantages in TAX in overall too, but your VAT is one of those in the highest bracket.
I feel for you ... [ sympathy, but it is not gonna help ya in the financial department]

PS: I used to buy memory / SD a few years ago, before the final push for super VAT ...

[Scottie888]

17 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

That’s how it’s done. They either ship by train (and pay someone) or have a container going through Europe to a third country so they don’t need to declare at customs. Then some items “accidentally” disappear from the container (again paying someone to turn a blind eye) and that item gets shipped within EU (free trade area) and not going through customs at the target country. The wheels are never going through customs. They’re abusing the European common market system and the new (or southern) EU member countries with higher corruption rates...

If that's true & can be PROVEN to be true, then easy pheasy. Rat 'em out & shut 'em down. KingLocksong's happy, Local Distributors/Dealer's happy & customers' happy (I think). Sounds like a Win Win Win. Unless ofcos its conjecture & assumptions in which case it has as much value as DoggiePoo.

So lets go back to the facts of the day. The mfgr wants to lock legally & privately owned wheels they disapprove off being bought online. So instead of shutting that distribution avenue down, they wanna shut down customers private property. Could it possible be that this online Ali distribution net is perfectly legal & they can't do a damn thing about it so again they take the easy way out to intimidate & coerce their customers? Just askin' 

How's this idea? Wanna know why products like Louis Vuitton (& numerous other) have no gray market value? Could it possibly be that LV is very stringent on its dealer/franchise network & they also equalize the costs of their products worldwide so the retail costs are relatively similar no matter where its bought?? 

Just with a post, I've given 2 solutions to F*^kLongsong other than F*^k their customers. 

[Meulebeest]

On 8/12/2020 at 2:43 PM, UniVehje said:

Please look at the calculations above. I don't know why you try to prove a middle man in the EU but the math is just not there. The prices the resellers in US and EU are getting is generally very similar. And Ali sellers skip the VAT unless something's changed recently. A two year warranty + VAT explain the price differences pretty well. And it's always up to the seller to decide how to price the items. There's no point in selling for anything less than you can. It's up to the consumer to find and ask for better deals. 

And I happen to know a little about a few European resellers and I'm pretty sure they are dealing directly with Kingsong in China, there's no European middle man. 

Anyone knows what the role is of "KingSong Europe" https://www.kingsong-europe.com/fr

And what the "login for resellers" section is about ?

(FR: Distributeur Exclusif de la marque Kingsong en Europe .)

Edited August 14, 2020 by Meulebeest

[null]

They are not KS but High’tems the “exclusive” importer for a range of European countries, and very much a middle man. 

Thanks to them an 18XL cost 2500€ in every single shop in France. A 16S is 1500€.

To me they are the reason for much of this mess.

Edited August 15, 2020 by null

[Yxzygäilijä]

Locksong's android app name and icon is now up to date!

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Yxzygäilijä

[Scottie888]

15 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

You are getting mighty angry and pretty much said it all. 

Am I angry? DAMN RIGHT I'm angry! I'm freakin' steaming lava magma mad when some company threatens to lock my property. If any says they aren't then alls I can quote is Joe Biden verbatim.."you're a lyin' dog faced pony soldier"! 

As for legalities, you don't get to have it both ways. Either its legal or its illegal. Either you have evidence or you don't. For the time being at least in my country, we don't convict on assumptions or insinuations. You wanna make accusations, show me the evidence otherwise phoooey. Fishy sounds about right for a day old underwear but that it.

Anyone check on price of Veteran Shermans on either Ali or local onlines? Anyone notice there's not much difference in retail pricing? Anyone curious as to why? Maybe perhaps Veteran Sherman makes it so that the wholesale costs of their products worldwide are equalized so retail pricing is similar no matter where its sold. That's how this stupid problem can be solved.

Any one also notice that Veteran didn't do it by trying to f*$&#^k theirs customers property?

[meriwald]

3 hours ago, Yxzygäilijä said:

Locksong's android app name and icon is now up to date!

 

OMG hahahaha this is funny

[FinRider]

6 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

Am I angry? DAMN RIGHT I'm angry! I'm freakin' steaming lava magma mad when some company threatens to lock my property. If any says they aren't then alls I can quote is Joe Biden verbatim.."you're a lyin' dog faced pony soldier"! 

As for legalities, you don't get to have it both ways. Either its legal or its illegal. Either you have evidence or you don't. For the time being at least in my country, we don't convict on assumptions or insinuations. You wanna make accusations, show me the evidence otherwise phoooey. Fishy sounds about right for a day old underwear but that it.

Anyone check on price of Veteran Shermans on either Ali or local onlines? Anyone notice there's not much difference in retail pricing? Anyone curious as to why? Maybe perhaps Veteran Sherman makes it so that the wholesale costs of their products worldwide are equalized so retail pricing is similar no matter where its sold. That's how this stupid problem can be solved.

Any one also notice that Veteran didn't do it by trying to f*$&#^k theirs customers property?

I get it that your angry. Imwas angry and majorly disappointed too when I heard what KS is doing. However, i analyzed the situation and came to the conclusion that KS are not the one entirely in the wrong here. 

I believe that KS could have handled this issue a lot better but were not smart enough to do so. For example, they could have stated that:

Any KingSong wheel with a P designation in the serialnumber uses a different motherboard that is not EMC tested to the IEC and DOT standards and can thus not be sold to any country outside of china. In order to follow international law, all wheels shipped from china will be locked for transportation. In order to unlock the wheel, you need to download the official ks app. Upon 1st connection to the wheel, your license will be activated. If your wheel is a non IEC or DOT (insert applicable standard) approved wheel, then the wheel will not be unlocked as it does not comply with the local laws and regulations for electric personal vehicles. If this happens to you, please contact your reseller to resolve the issue.

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by FinRider

[eve]

11 hours ago, null said:

Chicway (alias green and fashion) so his recent claims about only selling international versions are bull..

When did he order?

[Retrovertigo]

There is something quite sadly amusing about a company from a country responsible for more counterfeit products than any other, losing its s**t over where people buy its products from. 

[null]

41 minutes ago, eve said:

When did he order?

2-3 month ago.