KS 16S or KS 18l for my first wheel? Help please

[Rywokast]

1 minute ago, Wonderwebb said:

Ali every time ! The spares might be expensive  but you sure can buy a lot of them with the money you save ! 

actually i have never once needed a replacement part for anything.. im not saying it cant happen im just saying i dont take it into consideration when purchasing.. realistically, by the time it needs something replaced what are the chances it will still be supported.. of course you could wipe out at 50 kph on the second day of owning it but thats just bad luck, whether you have a warranty or not that is 100% coming out of your pocket lol

[Mono]

14 hours ago, Chriull said:

And a very very very important point - big batteries are not only for range, their biggest advantage is safety!

That is too broad of a claim, as there must be limits to battery size improving safety. Also, and very unintuitively, the demand on the battery decreases with increasing speed (as you know), whereas it is the other way around for safety concerns. I don't have much reasons to believe that the 500Wh battery on my InMotion V8 should be in my list of relevant safety concerns when riding the EUC. The power of the battery pack is almost twice the power of the motor and a different battery type with the same capacity could even have double the battery power to fit a more powerful wheel.

https://www.ewheels.com/choosing-an-electric-unicycle-with-the-right-battery-pack-for-you/

Edited July 7, 2019 by Mono

[Rywokast]

12 minutes ago, Mono said:

That is too broad of a claim, as there must be limits to battery size improving safety. Also, and very unintuitively, the demand on the battery decreases with increasing speed (sic), whereas it is the other way around for safety concerns. I don't have much reasons to believe that the 500Wh battery on my InMotion V8 should be a relevant safety concern to me.

ehhhh it would be a rare situation on a modern euc that a bigger battery would be a safety feature.. sure its less safe to be riding on low, so in that sense obviously having a higher capacity means wouldnt get down to low battery as often (probably).. but there are a number of safety measures that try very hard to not let you be unsafe.. the only unsafe behavior from a manufacturer i can see would be allowing you to completely turn off the tiltback therefore being free to cruise past its limit and faceplant, but that would be idiotic. it is true that the more packs an EUC has the more safe it is... on paper, but in real life situations 95% of the time it is irrelevant, unless you plan to take trips that will always nearly deplete your battery in that case for sure a bigger battery is safer.. i like to refer to <30% standstill battery as the danger zone, you will notice that if you monitor with an app your battery level it will dip down, and raise back up constantly.. if you are riding carelessly, at below 30% battery, that means it is possible for the battery to actually go below 0 and cut out, but every wheel will try its best to prevent you from doing that even if youre not paying attention.. see speedyfeetuk videos on youtube in his range tests he always rides to near 0%, i dont recall once where a wheel cut out on him,  he is by no means a small man either. the power of the motor is really a lot more important for safety nowadays relative to your weight and ride style

Edited July 7, 2019 by Rywokast

[Thatmustache]

@Wonderwebb So should I be expecting to spend money on parts for the wheel i order? Or does it usually come working normally as it would from any other dealer?

@Rywokast I'm seeing now that you said you have never needed a replacement part. That's awesome! All the wheels bought though from aliexpress were in good working condition for you with no problems? Also what's this about geo fencing and Kingsong losing their serial number? Sorry just trying to understand it all!

I just want to make sure I'm not gonna waste my money by buying a bad wheel (a dud).

I really want a good EUC and i don't have money to spend twice. But if it's safe and good then aliexpress would be an answer to my prayers lol!

Edited July 7, 2019 by Thatmustache

[Wonderwebb]

I have never needed a part so far . Dont get me wrong both shells have got war wounds but nothing that would have been covered by me spending a huge sum more with a local dealer. All damage I inflicted to wheels is my own shout.

[Lutalo]

16 hours ago, Thatmustache said:

Hey guys, I'm completely new to Electric unicycles. I've never ridden one, but am itching to get on one. I don't make a lot of money currently to spend on things I want, so I've been saving for a while now to buy my first EUC. Ive finally just saved up enough. My thoughts are this - I understand most people buy a beginner wheel to learn on and beat up until they become proficient, and then upgrade to a better faster wheel. My thing is that I probably will only be able to afford one wheel for now, and won't be able to buy another one in the foreseeable future. If I want I have just enough for a Kingsong ks 18l, or I can go with the ks 16s. I think both are sweet. Will it be too hard to learn on an 18l? My use will be riding for fun, more in the country, longer rides and exploring. Not really any commuting and not much city riding for me. Thoughts please? Thanks!

I am not the biggest fan of the rationale behind the “wheel graduate” theory. In fact, generally speaking, I think it’s a waste of money to buy a wheel that you will most assuredly not want to keep for a reasonable duration. Of course, there are situations where it can work, but in general it’s best to aim for the wheel you will want to keep. In my opinion, These wheels are too expensive for most folks to use their disposable income on multiple wheel purchases.

accept that you are going to scratch the shells severely while learning: either pad up the shell to absorb the scratches, or spend a couple of extra hundred for nice shiny new shell pieces; available from the manufacturer, and perhaps some dealers.

My personal suggestion is to pad the wheel at critical impact points during the learning phase. Take the pads off when you feel comfortable riding in the real world; places other than the parking lot or field where you learned. This enables you to adapt to the wheel you will be riding from the start. You will enjoy trying, and appreciate the differences of other wheel types/brands more after you are an expert rider on your own wheel.

Unfortunately, there is currently no help for your foot platforms; those are not going to stay pretty regardless of what you do. You can buy an extra set later, paint the ones you have, or just leave them alone and accept fate.

The 18L is a fantastic wheel. I love mine, but when I grab a wheel for group rides it’s always my 18XL.

If you are going to be doing long distance riding after you learn then you might want go with longer range wheels like the KS18XL or the MSX.

I recommend delaying gratification and getting an Advanced wheel. However, If you absolutely don’t want to delay gratification 😝😝😝, and your budget allocation restricts you to lower hanging fruit, then perhaps go with a decent wheel you will want to keep for a while like the 16S. Pad it up to keep it nice. Later, You can sell it to help finance a more advanced wheel, or buy another like a year out and use the 16S as a back up wheel.

[Joker10]

Not sure if it helps but I’m 210lb and have the 18l.  I did a 36.75 mile ride according to endomundo, but it was at very slow speeds, averaged about 10 mph site seeing/ nature viewing.  I could have gone a little faster but didn’t want to take a chance on running out of battery where we were riding no uber was going to pick me up.   battery indicated about 20% at the end.   I rode to my parents house 15.44 miles averaged 15 mph and started at 80% battery had a little over 40% on arrival.  350’ of ascent, temps were typical Florida summer low 90s.  I normally ride in the upper teens but sometimes hit low 20mph miles on good paved bike paths / roads.  By the time the battery is low, I am normally worn out, I am in my 50s.  You are way lighter than me but you are also in a colder climate, and that will affect range.  And if you ride faster your range will be less.  I know I can upgrade the batteries to the 1600 wh pack for $800 but my wheel is doing everything I need it to now.  Not sure if you can buy from ewheels or not but if you can you will get excellent support and the price difference on their website between the 18l and the xl is not that much.  If I was going to buy new I would have picked up the xl.  I now know I don’t really need that much battery but oddly enough you always want more.  Also don’t forget that your speed will gradually be limited after 50% on the L.  I never notice it till it gets below 40%, and the L seems to still move as fast as the 16s at full charge when the L is between 40 and 30% battery.  The XL is not supposed to have the speed governed till it gets below 25% battery if I remember correctly.  There is also the option of buying a quick charger.  I have one and use it when I ride to my parents house.  Hang out for a couple of hours and your battery can be fully charged, and head back home.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Joker10

[Thatmustache]

1 hour ago, Lutalo said:

If you are going to be doing long distance riding after you learn then you might want go with longer range wheels like the KS18XL or the MSX.

I recommend delaying gratification and getting an Advanced wheel.

@Lutalo Ive decided that im going to go big off the bat and get either the KS18xl, or the MSX 

I am just deciding between those two, but am leaning more towards the 18xl. Thanks!

[Thatmustache]

@Joker10 Thank you, every bit helps.

I'm going to with the 18l or more likely the 18xl, rather than the 16s

[Lutalo]

1 minute ago, Thatmustache said:

@Lutalo Ive decided that im going to go big off the bat and get either the KS18xl, or the MSX 

I am just deciding between those two, but am leaning more towards the 18xl. Thanks!

Cool. Either would be great choice, but my personal favorite is definitely the XL; it works better for me in my riding situation and hyper-urban riding environment that usually  involves a mixture of Subway use and riding. In your situation; it might not make quite as much of a difference which one you choose, but you will for sure love the XL. 😉👍🏿

[Benphysics]

16 hours ago, Rywokast said:

hehe, best youtube euc channels choochtech, speedyfeetuk, and our own marty backe electricunicycles.. there are more of course but these are the most prominent i think.. if you want greatly detailed teardowns i like ecodrift (russian) they also have a youtube presence. no problem, its always good to see a fellow canadian here

I just want you to be aware that, due to Kingsong's new app, I now have had my new wheel (KS 18XL) for two days and still cannot enter the app to unlock my wheel. I've crashed my phone; down to its android OS. Had Walmart exchange the phone. I spent all day yesterday, all night , and am still trying. The app requires insane permissions to work, such as: 1) allow Kingsong to make and manage phone calls on my device, 2) to access photos, media, and all files on my device, 3) take pictures and record videos from my device, 4) and record voices and audio from my device... This is apart from location and storage permissions... At this point, I sincerely regret buying a Kingsong wheel. I should have chosen a Gotway. If you want this wheel, You can have it for $2,000. flat. I purchased it from ewheels; it should have full warranty and has "0" miles. I am this frustrated.

[Thatmustache]

6 minutes ago, Benphysics said:

At this point, I sincerely regret buying a Kingsong wheel. I should have chosen a Gotway.

@Benphysics Wow that sounds really really frustrating. I really don't want that to happen to me. Would that not happen with a Gotway wheel? Do you need Gotways app to unlock their wheels, or can you just ride them out of box?

[Benphysics]

I don't know yet how it works for Gotway, but Jason at ewheels can have it unlocked pre-programmed for you, and ready to ride right out of the box before delivering it. Until I get my Kingsong to work, I cannot advocate for it. All the excitement I had prior to receiving it has now faded away, replaced by frustration.

[Thatmustache]

10 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The extra danger with Kingsongs is with the app and firmware. The wheel needs to be unlocked from the app which needs an account, there's firmware upgrades, etc. So there are all kinds of geoblocking possibilities there and in the worst case, the wheel won't work and you can do nothing about it and you have a $2k paperweight.

@meepmeepmayer So would this not be the case with Gotways? Say if I were to get an MSX, would I need to unlock it with the app same as kingsong, or can I ride it straight out of the box? I'm considering getting the MSX, the more videos I watch the more I think it might fit my specific needs.

Another commenter had said to me that they bought the KS18XL and now they can't unlock it because the app isn't working for them.

Are Gotway wheels set up differently?

[Marty Backe]

44 minutes ago, Benphysics said:

I just want you to be aware that, due to Kingsong's new app, I now have had my new wheel (KS 18XL) for two days and still cannot enter the app to unlock my wheel. I've crashed my phone; down to its android OS. Had Walmart exchange the phone. I spent all day yesterday, all night , and am still trying. The app requires insane permissions to work, such as: 1) allow Kingsong to make and manage phone calls on my device, 2) to access photos, media, and all files on my device, 3) take pictures and record videos from my device, 4) and record voices and audio from my device... This is apart from location and storage permissions... At this point, I sincerely regret buying a Kingsong wheel. I should have chosen a Gotway. If you want this wheel, You can have it for $2,000. flat. I purchased it from ewheels; it should have full warranty and has "0" miles. I am this frustrated.

This all sounds rather severe. I can't think of a time when somebody hasn't been able to connect and unlock the wheel with their phone.

Climb down off the ledge and take a deep breath. All will be OK  We're here to help you.

Just install one of the non-social KingSong apps. Here, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/il5z2qqfq9bahsr/KSv4.apk?dl=0

Maybe @US69 can step in and help guide you too.

You really don't want to get rid of such a nice wheel because of some app frustrations that you will get worked out.

[Marty Backe]

27 minutes ago, Thatmustache said:

@meepmeepmayer So would this not be the case with Gotways? Say if I were to get an MSX, would I need to unlock it with the app same as kingsong, or can I ride it straight out of the box? I'm considering getting the MSX, the more videos I watch the more I think it might fit my specific needs.

Another commenter had said to me that they bought the KS18XL and now they can't unlock it because the app isn't working for them.

Are Gotway wheels set up differently?

Gotway wheels do not have the concept of Unlocking. The new app works OK but you can also use the non-social version, and only use it for wheel calibration. Otherwise use a 3rd party app.

Non-social versions of the KingSong app will also work.

Everyone calm down 

[Thatmustache]

10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Gotway wheels do not have the concept of Unlocking. The new app works OK but you can also use the non-social version, and only use it for wheel calibration. Otherwise use a 3rd party app.

Non-social versions of the KingSong app will also work.

Everyone calm down 

@Marty Backe Lol yes thank you for clarifying! I'm new to Euc's and just don't want to end up with a dud.

My concern was because I would most likely be buying from aliexpress.com, I didn't want to have a wheel with any problems and perhaps not much support from kingsong, gotway, or the dealer. But if third party apps will work then that is good news!

Edited July 7, 2019 by Thatmustache

[Marty Backe]

6 minutes ago, Thatmustache said:

@Marty Backe Lol yes thank you for clarifying! I'm new to Euc's and just don't want to end up with a dud.

My concern was because I would most likely be buying from aliexpress.com, I didn't want to have a wheel with any problems and perhaps not much support from kingsong, gotway, or the dealer. But if third party apps will work then that is good news!

I'll bet my paycheck that you'll be fine as far as the apps go.

[Gundars Balodis]

18 hours ago, Thatmustache said:

I've never heard of aliexpress.com until today. Do you know or does anyone know of people who have bought euc's from there before. Thanks in advance everyone this is really helping me!

I did, got my KS18XL from that guy, that was 2 weeks ago, I'm in Germany, paid in monday and in friday I got my wheel, though without big pedals and extra charger, I'm still waiting for them, while, I think, EUC itself was send from EU warehouse but pedals and charger are coming from China so it may take awhile until I'll get them. Until now I can't say anything bad about this sellet, EUC I get is EU version, not for China mainland and price is lowest I have seen anywhere. Same as for you, it was (and it is) my first wheel, same as you I didn,t have any experience with EUC before, same as you I couldn't allow myself  a beginners wheel first and later advance. It took me about 3H (in 3 days), until I was able to ride a little bit (first it was very frustrating, I thought I'll never lern to ride this thing properly, and was wondering how another people are doing this), now I have about 350km behind me, all kinds of surface, asphalt, gravel, lose gravel, single trails, forest roads and paths, uphills and downhills, I'm still learning but I'm starting to understand, how it is to feel a EUC as an extension to your legs , well, my wheel is dusty now and has a few scratches,  but now it looks more like a war machine than a museum exhibit.

As for a range, I'm a big man, 98kg, and Idid push myself and wheel real hard (not speeding, but really a lot offroad, on some places without road at all), and it took me with one charge about 90km, though last 4-5km it cursed loud all the time, that was annoying, while it was really loud, as if it reported that the "battery is discharged" not to me but to everyone around.

[Thatmustache]

4 minutes ago, Gundars Balodis said:

I did, got my KS18XL from that guy, that was 2 weeks ago, I'm in Germany, paid in monday and in friday I got my wheel.

Same as for you, it was (and it is) my first wheel, same as you I didn,t have any experience with EUC before, same as you I couldn't allow myself  a beginners wheel first and later advance.

@Gundars Balodis That's awesome! I'm glad to hear of someone (newer) like me that got their wheel from there. And yes i want to get my preffered wheel starting off, because I can't afford right now to upgrade after I buy it.

I'm glad you're enjoying the KS18xl! I'm having a hard time deciding but It seems like a superb wheel!

[meepmeepmayer]

Get the wheel you want regardless of possible or perceived problems. Those are worst case scenarios (and of course people talk about the problems they have, not when everything works). I'm afraid we have overwhelmed you a little with doubt

If you want an 18XL (assuming everything works as it should), get an 18XL. If you want an MSX (assuming everything works as it should), get an MSX.

So choose your wheel and then we can find the best source for you to buy it and think about the fringe cases.

[Thatmustache]

2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

If you want an 18XL (assuming everything works as it should), get an 18XL. If you want an MSX (assuming everything works as it should), get an MSX.

So choose your wheel and then we can find the best source for you to buy it and think about the fringe cases.

@meepmeepmayer Thanks for the reassurance!

I'm starting to think I'll possibly go with the MSX because I want to be able to ride on trails and off road, as well as paved country roads. Ive heard the MSX is better for off roading.

It's between that and the 18xl, but either one I'll probably get from aliexpress.com, as that's the only way I can afford either of those right now

[Nils]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Gotway wheels do not have the concept of Unlocking. The new app works OK but you can also use the non-social version, and only use it for wheel calibration. Otherwise use a 3rd party app.

Non-social versions of the KingSong app will also work.

Everyone calm down 

Well, everyone don't calm down too much. This later development with the KS wheels requiring phone-home to China (and personal contact with a KS representative) to unlock speeds based on geo-locking for certain locations for instance is quite frankly not something that seems OK to me no matter what (being in one of these non-mainstream regions). I'd be very hesitant to buy a KS wheel for my next wheel if this persists, and making this known to KS is the only way we'll potentially see a change. Of course, that's only if people cares about it and are vocal about it. As I've stated in an earlier post in another thread I'm expecting to buy a fully functional physical wheel and not some weird DVD region thing I need to unlock at the discretion of the manufacturer: no, just sell me a good wheel and get out of my hair. Unlocking based on distance, locking down speeds due to my geographical location - no thanks!

It's really not OK, and we shouldn't give them a pass on it.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Nils

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, Nils said:

Well, everyone don't calm down too much. This later development with the KS wheels requiring phone-home to China (and personal contact with a KS representative) to unlock speeds based on geo-locking for certain locations for instance is quite frankly not something that seems OK to me no matter what (being in one of these non-mainstream regions). I'd be very hesitant to buy a KS wheel for my next wheel if this persists, and making this known to KS is the only way we'll potentially see a change. Of course, that's only if people cares about it and are vocal about it. As I've stated in an earlier post in another thread I'm expecting to buy a fully functional physical wheel and not some weird DVD region thing I need to unlock at the discretion of the manufacturer: no, just sell me a good wheel and get out of my hair. Unlocking based on distance, locking down speeds due to my geographical location - no thanks!

It's really not OK, and we shouldn't give them a pass on it.

Maybe I'm really out-of-loop now and don't understand how bad it is. You actually have to have personal contact with a KS representative to unlock a wheel? And once unlock, do you ever have to use the KS app again?

Guess I've never experienced any of this with my KS14S and KS18XL.

To be clear, I agree with you. But for the last couple of years my fallback position has been to use the old Gotway or KingSong apps so maybe I haven't realized how bad it has gotten.

I'd still be amazed if @Benphysics isn't able to get his wheel to work. Why isn't @Jason McNeil's team helping him?

[Rywokast]

7 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Maybe I'm really out-of-loop now and don't understand how bad it is. You actually have to have personal contact with a KS representative to unlock a wheel? And once unlock, do you ever have to use the KS app again?

Guess I've never experienced any of this with my KS14S and KS18XL.

To be clear, I agree with you. But for the last couple of years my fallback position has been to use the old Gotway or KingSong apps so maybe I haven't realized how bad it has gotten.

I'd still be amazed if @Benphysics isn't able to get his wheel to work. Why isn't @Jason McNeil's team helping him?

you do not.. and you dont have to give your phone number or call to china thats just with the newest all blue app that you have to register.. use the lame orange social app and you can unlock it no problem.. its literally only locked because of the issues they had with batch 1 wheels turning on in shipping.. now they cant do that