KS 16S or KS 18l for my first wheel? Help please

[Rywokast]

1 minute ago, Thatmustache said:

@Rywokast I'm going to thank you now! I didn't know you could get a Kingsong 18xl for that price!

I've never heard of aliexpress.com until today. Do you know or does anyone know of people who have bought euc's from there before. Thanks in advance everyone this is really helping me!

lol most people havent.. yes thousands have bought from there.. ive purchased about 8 from there myself

[Thatmustache]

7 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

lol most people havent.. yes thousands have bought from there.. ive purchased about 8 from there myself

@Rywokast Thank you, this helps immensely!

Any idea where it ships from and what the shipping times are? Probably from China? This is good news though! Btw 8 Wheels! Lol I can't wait till I get there some day! Btw what's your go to or favorite EUC? 

[Chriull]

16 minutes ago, Thatmustache said:

@Rywokast I'm going to thank you now! I didn't know you could get a Kingsong 18xl for that price!

I've never heard of aliexpress.com until today. Do you know or does anyone know of people who have bought euc's from there before. Thanks in advance everyone this is really helping me!

One can nicely search this forum with google:

site:forum.electricunicyle.org aliexpress

or similar terms

Edited July 7, 2019 by Chriull

[Rywokast]

3 minutes ago, Thatmustache said:

@Rywokast Thank you, this helps immensely!

Any idea where it ships from and what the shipping times are? Probably from China? This is good news though! Btw 8 Wheels! Lol I can't wait till I get there some day! Btw what's your go to or favorite EUC? 

from China.. usually 2-3 weeks from my experience.. tax free though. yup I've had 15 wheels.. my favourite all rounder is my ks16s actually haha.. but that's for around town, we'll see if the nikola takes its place

[Chriull]

4 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

my favourite all rounder is my ks16s actually haha..

+1 - could easily be the perfect budget wheel for @Thatmustache - there is still information missing for a real recommendation.

[Thatmustache]

4 minutes ago, Chriull said:

- there is still information missing for a real recommendation.

@Chriull Information from me? What information would help?

[Rywokast]

best case ks16s will get you 60 km at 35 kph.. it is a lot smaller altogether, and has a 16x2.125" tire.. ks18xl will get you over 100 km at 50 kph max speed, it has a larger tire in both directions 18x2.5 and has a much taller frame.. it is also a lot heavier.. from your OP i would not recommend the ks16s over the 18xl. my main usage is within the city.. i do not have a car so i use it to go to commute to work, to get around town, to go shopping etc etc.. it is my opinion that it is the best all rounder it has a decent speed, decent battery, it is compact, and it has a great trolley handle... if i want to go for a long distance joy ride i will choose another wheel, if its the weekend and i just feel like having fun in some bike trails i will take another wheel with better speed, if i want to go off roading i will choose another wheel that is more stable for rough terrain, if i want to screw around in my parking garage or practice backwards riding, train other people etc i have a wheel for that.. you will find probably the majority of active people on here have multiple wheels exactly for these reasons.. for the most common usage scenario you described i would point to the MSX or KS18XL.. msx has slightly higher top speed, higher more angled pedals and a lower contact point, as well as a fatter tire, this makes it the clear winner for purely off roading.. the 18xl has a more conservative but always safe top speed, a longer lasting battery, it can corner better due to its build and thinner tire, and its trolley handle is far superior, it also has a lift cutoff switch, and its much better looking/discrete .. if you told me i will ONLY ever use it for trails and rough terrain never anything else, i would recommend the MSX, but i wouldnt recommend it over the 18 XL as an only wheel, the 18XL is definitely better rounded and more suited for an exclusive EUC, and its more beginner friendly, but you will not outgrow it

Edited July 7, 2019 by Rywokast

[Thatmustache]

18 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

for the most common usage scenario you described i would point to the msx or ks16s..

@Rywokast Sorry just to clairfy what you said above, did you mean to say "i would point  to the msx or ks18xl?

Thank you this is helping a lot, yes I will be doing country riding, some in town riding, not big big city though. As well as I would like to do some off roading trail riding with it, once I get good

Edited July 7, 2019 by Thatmustache

[Rywokast]

4 minutes ago, Thatmustache said:

@Rywokast Sorry just to clairfy, did you mean to say the msx or ks18xl?

Thank you this is helping a lot, yes I will be doing country riding, some in town riding, not big big city though. As well as I would like to do some off roading trail riding with it, once I get good

oops, good catch.. fixed lol yea thats what i meant to say.. when it comes right down to it its all a bit of a personal preference really.. i mean if you watch choochtechs videos on youtube he rides his 18xl like a madman through the trails, and loves his msx in the city.. im not saying any wheel cant do anything, its just each one specializes in something that another might be not as good at.. 18xl is better all round, more conveniences, more elegant and comfortable design and will cruise longer.. msx is more rugged and extreme both in its build, and how it handles.. it has more raw power available and it is a bit more harsh, it wont get you as far but it will rip up trails and hills like nothing.. either one of them are perfectly good for anything that ive mentioned, in fact every wheel made in the last two years is, but since you cant test them in person yourself i think you would like the 18XL better overall

[Thatmustache]

@Rywokast yes Chooch does ride like a madman lol!

Yes it is feeling like because of my need for one wheel that is really good all around, the 18xl would be a good choice.

Thank you, before making this thread I was trying to do all the research by myself, always wishing that I could talk to someone, or multiple people with experience. Now after hearing from you as well as everyone else it has helped more than I expected! I love this community already!

[Rywokast]

Just now, Thatmustache said:

@Rywokast yes Chooch does ride like a madman lol!

Yes it is feeling like because of my need for one wheel that is really good all around, the 18xl would be a good choice.

Thank you, before making this thread I was trying to do all the research by myself, always wishing that I could talk to someone, or multiple people with experience. Now after hearing from you as well as everyone else it has helped more than I expected! I love this community already!

hehe, best youtube euc channels choochtech, speedyfeetuk, and our own marty backe electricunicycles.. there are more of course but these are the most prominent i think.. if you want greatly detailed teardowns i like ecodrift (russian) they also have a youtube presence. no problem, its always good to see a fellow canadian here

[Thatmustache]

16 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

hehe, best youtube euc channels choochtech, speedyfeetuk, and our own marty backe electricunicycles..

@Rywokast Yes! I've watched them all, a lot actually haha!

And yes having another Canadian is great to see! Thanks for the help, and for suggesting a good place to order from. Amazing news for shipping to Canada!

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, Thatmustache said:

@Chriull yeah that seems to be the general consensus, and I'm feeling like that might be better too. I was considering the Kinsong 18 Because I've heard many good things about it (comfort, maneuverability, ease of riding) I always thought the M Super X to be Super cool (no pun intended) but heard it's harder to learn to ride on? Not sure.

But as of right now I think the MSX is cheaper than the KS18xl, especially on aliexpress it's a lot cheaper. Which is more friendly towards my budget.

If you are open to Gotway, the MSX is a tank of a wheel. Probably the most reliable wheel released this past year. And when you mention gravel, well, the huge MSX tire is hard to beat. And lest you think your weight/size might be a hindrance, don't. I know multiple small women who ride the MSX without difficulties. So it's a wheel for all sizes.

I've seen people learn on every wheel imaginable, some that I would never recommend as a first wheel. What this has shown me is that any wheel will do as the first wheel. Just pad them up for the first month or so of riding.

I would say save yourself the money and buy the MSX.

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, Rywokast said:

best case ks16s will get you 60 km at 35 kph.. it is a lot smaller altogether, and has a 16x2.125" tire.. ks18xl will get you over 100 km at 50 kph max speed, it has a larger tire in both directions 18x2.5 and has a much taller frame.. it is also a lot heavier.. from your OP i would not recommend the ks16s over the 18xl. my main usage is within the city.. i do not have a car so i use it to go to commute to work, to get around town, to go shopping etc etc.. it is my opinion that it is the best all rounder it has a decent speed, decent battery, it is compact, and it has a great trolley handle... if i want to go for a long distance joy ride i will choose another wheel, if its the weekend and i just feel like having fun in some bike trails i will take another wheel with better speed, if i want to go off roading i will choose another wheel that is more stable for rough terrain, if i want to screw around in my parking garage or practice backwards riding, train other people etc i have a wheel for that.. you will find probably the majority of active people on here have multiple wheels exactly for these reasons.. for the most common usage scenario you described i would point to the MSX or KS18XL.. msx has slightly higher top speed, higher more angled pedals and a lower contact point, as well as a fatter tire, this makes it the clear winner for purely off roading.. the 18xl has a more conservative but always safe top speed, a longer lasting battery, it can corner better due to its build and thinner tire, and its trolley handle is far superior, it also has a lift cutoff switch, and its much better looking/discrete .. if you told me i will ONLY ever use it for trails and rough terrain never anything else, i would recommend the MSX, but i wouldnt recommend it over the 18 XL as an only wheel, the 18XL is definitely better rounded and more suited for an exclusive EUC, and its more beginner friendly, but you will not outgrow it

I agree with much of what you say. I'm swayed towards recommending the MSX because clearly @Thatmustache is cash strapped and the KS18XL is sold at a premium price point. So it's going to be a lot easier for him to get into a 1600wh machine by going with the MSX.

[Thatmustache]

43 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

it's going to be a lot easier for him to get into a 1600wh machine by going with the MSX.

@Marty Backe thanks to the link that @Rywokast sent me earlier, the Kingsong 18xl is within my price range when bought from aliexpress.com. On that website they have the KS18xl for $2250 cdn, and the Gotway MSX for $2120 cdn. Either one of these is in my price range.

You guys have helped me a ton! Literally I think it's down to choosing one of these wheels and I'll probably be happy with either one. But I just have to choose. People are still always saying good things about the MSX,  but I hear just as much good things about the KS18xl. I'll make my decision soon, so that I can get riding as soon as possible

Also  @Marty Backe when you said "I've seen people learn on every wheel imaginable, some that I would never recommend as a first wheel. What this has shown me is that any wheel will do as the first wheel. Just pad them up for the first month or so of riding."

I really appreciated that, it was very wise and very insightful, thanks!

Edited July 7, 2019 by Thatmustache

[seage]

5 hours ago, Thatmustache said:

18l coming to $2250 (Canadian) the 18xl coming to $3160 (Canadian)

Yeah, im in Toronto, Ontario, and have the 18XL and it was $2800 after tax, so be careful on where you buy it so you dont get ripped off. Are you in the GTA too? Will we be getting a new person to ride with downtown soon? XD.

[Rywokast]

5 minutes ago, seage said:

Yeah, im in Toronto, Ontario, and have the 18XL and it was $2800 after tax, so be careful on where you buy it so you dont get ripped off. Are you in the GTA too? Will we be getting a new person to ride with downtown soon? XD.

intelligent walking store is probably the #2 euc dealer on aliexpress next to green fashion.. they are reputable.. as with anything bought in china you wont have a warranty mind you thats what the premium price from local dealers is mostly for.. but its not like youre screwed if its broken on arrival, you wont have a problem getting replacement parts if anything comes broken.. but ive had a total of 0 problems with any EUCs from ali or anywhere else..

edit: btw, make sure to go to the stores front page https://www.aliexpress.com/store/2488062?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.467b52e9Bl3xq5 and clip the 26 dollar coupon

Edited July 7, 2019 by Rywokast

[seage]

4 minutes ago, Thatmustache said:

You guys have helped me a ton! Literally I think it's down to choosing one of these wheels and I'll probably be happy with either one. But I just have to choose. People are still always saying good things about the MSX,  but I hear just as much good things about the KS18xl. I'll make my decision soon, so that I can get riding as soon as possible

I was struggling between the two and picked the 18XL only because of the convenience factor. Since I have to go to meeting a lot. Walk and wheel the wheel when with friends who dont ride. Im on and off of it like crazy for things, it made more sense for me to get the wheel with the better handle/ easier to trolly around. The MSX isnt bad to walk, but all day, it gets a bit much, I think. I went to pride with my wheel, and my buddies all dont ride, so i was walking it for literal hours. I would have been mad if it wasnt so easy, haha. 

[Thatmustache]

11 minutes ago, seage said:

Are you in the GTA too? Will we be getting a new person to ride with downtown soon? XD.

@seage Just outside of the GTA, but I was literally just thinking the other day of how to find out if there are any groups that meetup in Toronto for group rides. I'd love to come down every now and then and ride with some other people! 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Thatmustache

[seage]

2 minutes ago, Thatmustache said:

@seage Just outside of the GTA, but I was literally just thinking the other day of how to find out if there are any groups that meetup in Toronto for group rides. I'd love to come down every now and then and ride with some other people! 

I'll shoot you a PM with some links! 

[Maartenv]

1 hour ago, Thatmustache said:

 

Also  @Marty Backe when you said "I've seen people learn on every wheel imaginable, some that I would never recommend as a first wheel. What this has shown me is that any wheel will do as the first wheel. Just pad them up for the first month or so of riding."

I really appreciated that, it was very wise and very insightful, thanks!

Second that. I’ve bought my Msx as my starter wheel on AliExpress for €1580 . With the right motivation, you’ll get there!

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Thatmustache said:

@Marty Backe thanks to the link that @Rywokast sent me earlier, the Kingsong 18xl is within my price range when bought from aliexpress.com. On that website they have the KS18xl for $2250 cdn, and the Gotway MSX for $2120 cdn. Either one of these is in my price range.

You guys have helped me a ton! Literally I think it's down to choosing one of these wheels and I'll probably be happy with either one. But I just have to choose. People are still always saying good things about the MSX,  but I hear just as much good things about the KS18xl. I'll make my decision soon, so that I can get riding as soon as possible

Also  @Marty Backe when you said "I've seen people learn on every wheel imaginable, some that I would never recommend as a first wheel. What this has shown me is that any wheel will do as the first wheel. Just pad them up for the first month or so of riding."

I really appreciated that, it was very wise and very insightful, thanks!

This video may be of interest:

 

[meepmeepmayer]

Didn't realize Canada was this expensive. Those are European prices lol.

Please be aware that both Gotway and Kingsong dislike grey imports (Ali is just the massive Chinese Amazon/ebay where the wheels meant for the Chinese market are sold, but they don't want other countries buying there and bypassing their local dealers and higher prices) and won't support those. (At least they didn't till now).

If you need a replacement part or any other support, both companies will tell you to pound sand if the wheel was meant for the Chinese market. That's fine for Gotways as you can get replacement parts and some warranty parts from your Ali sellers or buy them from Ali separately (if overpriced). Though Ali sellers can sometimes be very stingy with parts and leave you hanging. It's a reasonable risk that works for some buyers and not for some others.

The extra danger with Kingsongs is with the app and firmware. The wheel needs to be unlocked from the app which needs an account, there's firmware upgrades, etc. So there are all kinds of geoblocking possibilities there and in the worst case, the wheel won't work and you can do nothing about it and you have a $2k paperweight. Kingsong wheels can also sometimes "lose" their serial number and won't work then, too, unless you fix it with help from some special KS app, which might also not be available for grey importers. (Maybe @US69 knows more about the details of all the steps where KS might app-block you and whether buying a KS from Ali is a good idea, I hope I got everything right).

That's why I didn't mention getting a KS from Ali. Usually dealers wouldn't even list the KS wheels (because KS was looking extra hard) but you could ask some inofficially to sell you one. Now they're openly listed apparently.

I don't know how the experience with buying a KS from Ali is and if there might be any problems. Maybe someone did it and can help and tell how it works. Maybe everything is better now? Maybe not?

With a Gotway, in the worst case you can at least buy the parts you need on your own dime (if severely overpriced) if your Ali seller abandons you. Not sure how it works with KS or if you can end up with an unusable wheel and no way to fix it.

Usually we tell people to buy their first wheel locally if possible for this reason, Ali can be a hassle and maybe you need a bit of luck. That might be too much for a first time buyer if you need some support. Don't want to scare you, but that's how it is (or is it still?).

Edited July 7, 2019 by meepmeepmayer
spelling

[Rywokast]

42 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Didn't realize Canada was this expensive. Those are European prices lol.

Please be aware that both Gotway and Kingsong dislike grey imports (Ali is just the massive Chinese Amazon/ebay where the wheels meant for the Chinese market are sold, but they don't want other countries buying there and bypassing their local dealers and higher prices) and won't support those. (At least they didn't till now).

If you need a replacement part or any other support, both companies will tell you to pound sand if the wheel was meant for the Chinese market. That's fine for Gotways as you can get replacement parts and some warranty parts from your Ali sellers or buy them from Ali separately (if overpriced). Though Ali sellers can sometimes be very stingy with parts and leave you hanging. It's a reasonable risk that works for some buyers and not for some others.

The extra danger with Kingsongs is with the app and firmware. The wheel needs to be unlocked from the app which needs an account, there's firmware upgrades, etc. So there are all kinds of geoblocking possibilities there and in the worst case, the wheel won't work and you can do nothing about it and you have a $2k paperweight. Kingsong wheels can also sometimes "lose" their serial number and won't work then, too, unless you fix it with help from some special KS app, which might also not be available for grey importers. (Maybe @US69 knows more about the details of all the steps where KS might app-block you and whether buying a KS from Ali is a good idea, I hope I got everything right).

That's why I didn't mention getting a KS from Ali. Usually dealers wouldn't even list the KS wheels (because KS was looking extra hard) but you could ask some inofficially to sell you one. Now they're openly listed apparently.

I don't know how the experience with buying a KS from Ali is and if there might be any problems. Maybe someone did it and can help and tell how it works. Maybe everything is better now? Maybe not?

With a Gotway, in the worst case you can at least buy the parts you need on your own dime (if severely overpriced) if your Ali seller abandons you. Not sure how it works with KS or if you can end up with an unusable wheel and no way to fix it.

Usually we tell people to buy their first wheel locally if possible for this reason, Ali can be a hassle and maybe you need a bit of luck. That might be too much for a first time buyer if you need some support. Don't want to scare you, but that's how it is (or is it still?).

mostly true yes.. however unless it already is when its shipped to you, theres no way for anyone to ever geo lock an euc remotely, its just not feasible in any way, maybe if they reeeeally wanted to they could put out a firmware update that you would willingly install that would brick your euc if its serial number doesnt match with this or that, but i mean i could activate the euc, then uninstall the app and never use it again.. just use wheellog if you want to see anything.. if you ask me thats way beyond their capacity in the first place, and to do it would be insanely idiotic, theyre in the business of selling things which means isolating customers would be ridiculous, sure they might refuse to give you warranty service themselves if you bought from ali, but who has actually had any real warranty service from kingsong or gotway anyways lol.. not that they could do that anyways because how could they exactly pinpoint whose wheel came from where etc.. i bought my first ks16s from aliexpress, an inmotion, and several gotways.. you can always get spare parts from local dealers or dealers all around the world with web stores, ewheels, speedyfeet, electricunicycles.eu, ebay, and aliexpress if you just ask they can get them, they just dont advertise it.. but spare parts for wheels are usually only around for a couple of years until the model is replaced or the factory runs out and if it isnt a production wheel they will not make any more, im not aware of any suppliers that sell exclusively to previous customers. true kingsong does not officially support any aliexpress sales, but the same goes for gotway and they have openly said so.. of course its always better to buy from a local supplier for a multitude of reasons, but sometimes its just not possible either not in your budget or not available and so theres nothing wrong with buying from aliexpress at all, if you ask me there is no real risk, just the risk of having to wait longer if you get a lemon, aliexpress takes their policies very strongly actually their customer support and sellers have always been great to me in the past, even if their english does suck

Edited July 7, 2019 by Rywokast

[Wonderwebb]

Ali every time ! The spares might be expensive  but you sure can buy a lot of them with the money you save !