THE VIDEO THREAD!

[Scott Henley]

31 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Actually, does KingSong use the speakers for the beeps or a dedicated piezoelectric beeper? I can't seem to remember on my KS14S.

Speakers are not for beeps ...just “please decelerate “ . Lol

It is indeed a piezoelectric beeper...yes just like GW uses . ?

[Smoother]

2 hours ago, novazeus said:

shhh! are u trying to move into my most hated person on this forum because i’m trying to make members understand that all of this is great ammunition for city councilmen, county commissioners and other legislators to ban euc’s everywhere. 

nobody seems to understand, i don’t give a rat’s ass one way or another, i’ll still be riding mine on my private property. if people only care about their selfish interests, euc’s will follow the same path as skateboards, only euc’s are waay more dangerous.

Nah! I'll leave that to you; besides,you don't seem to need any help. Kudos, BTW for keeping your cool.

You've got to pick your moment and choose your words carefully; as I do.  Longtime subscribers might have a different view on that, but I digress.

I guess if we can learn anything from "Ron the wrecker", it is to measure our own riding against his and honestly evaluate where an impartial observer might score us "could do better in places" and then work on it.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

What I’m saying is that you don’t have to respect the beep on a King Song, you cannot defeat the tiltback and it will not dump you like a Gotway would.  

Respect the beep is a Gotway issue where they allow you to disable the tiltback and even with the tiltback you can set it too high for when the battery level goes down. It will give you a case of faceplantitis. 

Kingsongs are immune to faceplantitis. 

Just to be clear, in case any newbies are reading this, you can still faceplant on a KingSong. They are not immune to electronics failing, and I know of personal faceplants which have occurred because of a blown fuse while riding (only KingSong's wheels have mechanical fuses in their wheels). It's much less likely to happen with a KingSong wheel, but don't fool yourself into thinking that you are immune.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

@eddiemoy instead of trying to sell the MSuper, have you considered contacting your seller to see if they can update the software with the faster tilt shut down?  If that is the main issue bothering you about the wheel, a simple software update could solve the problem? 

It's too bad Gotway still hasn't gotten on the ball with user firmware updates.  Why make customers return their wheel or mail control boards when it's not really necessary?  Carefully programmed and tested firmware releases would make life much easier. 

Regarding Ron's accident, that demonstrates the type of mistake anyone  could easily make unless they religiously read these forums and understand the science/physics behind these wheels.  It's so easy to assume that the manufacturer has set some sort of safety to prevent accidentally over-stepping the critical failure zero torque speed threshold that can be variable depending on slope, weight, wind, acceleration, and battery reserve.

If the firmware was smart enough to recognize an impending failure situation, a Ninebot One-like tiltback might have prevented serious injury.  Being allowed to set the tiltback too high is in my mind a programming error that the app should not have allowed.  Or at least it should have popped up a warning. 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Marty Backe]

3 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

@eddiemoy instead of trying to sell the MSuper, have you considered contacting your seller to see if they can update the software with the faster tilt shut down?  If that is the main issue bothering you about the wheel, a simple software update could solve the problem? 

It's too bad Gotway still hasn't gotten on the ball with user firmware updates.  Why make customers return their wheel or mail control boards when it's not really necessary?  Carefully programmed and tested firmware releases would make life much easier. 

 

Hopefully not like KingSong recently bricked some wheels with their firmware updates. Given Gotway's apparent lack of configuration management I don't think I'd trust any firmware releases from them.

I don't think the 'Gotway Dance' is why Eddie has given up on Gotway (for the time being). It's their general lack of focus on all things safety.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I don't see a huge difference in safety other than King Song preventing users from making some serious app setting mistakes.  Quality control is a different issue though.  I've only ridden my Tesla 50 km so far , but it seemed to ride just like a Ninebot from 0 to 22 kph speeds.  If I kept riding it only in that range I think it would perform just as safely for the most part.

It seems like people are mainly running into trouble by making poor setting choices and exceeding limits. I believe my Tesla might still have the EUC Extreme extreme tilt shut off so I have to be very vigilant about that. Way back I believe they all shut off if tilted sideways over 45 degrees.  They likely adopted the 60-65 degree angle after EUC Extreme requested it and just kept the setting until recently. (That's my theory). 

I think Gotway is trying to play catch up with their wheels.  They are getting there.  Hopefully they will get that live charge port under check before someone gets hurt or a fire starts somehow.  I don't think we can expect EUC makers to be exactly the same.  It takes a lot of trial and error, money, R&D, and revision to grow a product.  Even with cars today we have recalls with different brands.  Toyota had their accelerator pedal issues while others airbag recalls. To distrust a brand for past mistakes and not expect improvements over time can be a little short-sighted in the long run. 

I almost chose the KS16S over the Tesla.  King Songs do have some solid products.  I hope my Gotway serves me well over time.  Each do have their strengths and weaknesses, some moreso than the other.  Whether it is a dealbreaker is for each individual to decide. 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Marty Backe]

35 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I don't see a huge difference in safety other than King Song preventing users from making some serious app setting mistakes.  Quality control is a different issue though.  I've only ridden my Tesla 50 km so far , but it seemed to ride just like a Ninebot from 0 to 22 kph speeds.  If I kept riding it only in that range I think it would perform just as safely for the most part.

It seems like people are mainly running into trouble by making poor setting choices and exceeding limits. I believe my Tesla might still have the EUC Extreme extreme tilt shut off so I have to be very vigilant about that. Way back I believe they all shut off if tilted sideways over 45 degrees.  They likely adopted the 60-65 degree angle after EUC Extreme requested it and just kept the setting until recently. (That's my theory). 

I think Gotway is trying to play catch up with their wheels.  They are getting there.  Hopefully they will get that live charge port under check before someone gets hurt or a fire starts somehow.  I don't think we can expect EUC makers to be exactly the same.  It takes a lot of trial and error, money, R&D, and revision to grow a product.  Even with cars today we have recalls with different brands.  Toyota had their accelerator pedal issues while others airbag recalls. To distrust a brand for past mistakes and not expect improvements over time can be a little short-sighted in the long run. 

I almost chose the KS16S over the Tesla.  King Songs do have some solid products.  I hope my Gotway serves me well over time.  Each do have their strengths and weaknesses, some moreso than the other.  Whether it is a dealbreaker is for each individual to decide. 

You did get an earlier Tesla. You can test the shutoff by just holding it and leaning it over. If it shuts off early then you should be good.

[Marty Backe]

 

[Shad0z]

6 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I actually believe that he couldn't hear it. When I was cruising at 25-mph on my Tesla, wearing my full-face helmet, I could not hear the wheel beeping at me. Since that episode of mine I have configure the vibration alarms on my Pebble watch so that I no longer depend on hearing the beeps. I forwarded my Pebble info to him.

But why not just get used to the feel of speed so you know when to slow down. Or to not even speed up in the first place?

[Shad0z]

27 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

 

hmm i have been looking at the gotway luffy. Maybe even to get it as a second wheel. cheap. Compact. And if i get the model with smaller battery i could take it on plane.

and also just as a back up wheel.

but it also looks like a blast to ride when its 10 inch and so light

would you reccomend it?

im not only a speed devil

[eddiemoy]

6 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Just to be clear, in case any newbies are reading this, you can still faceplant on a KingSong. They are not immune to electronics failing, and I know of personal faceplants which have occurred because of a blown fuse while riding (only KingSong's wheels have mechanical fuses in their wheels). It's much less likely to happen with a KingSong wheel, but don't fool yourself into thinking that you are immune.

Yes you are correct Marty.  No wheel is immune to faceplantitis.  I was just making light of this at Gotways expense.  LOL.  

Though the newer S versions of King song are pretty solid.  You really can’t get faceplantitis from the speed cutout is what I was trying to say like you can with the Gotway since you can turn off all the anoying Alarms.  For me when I’m riding on a king song, it is breeding away when I’m riding at top speed.  It draws a lot of attention.  

[eddiemoy]

3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

@eddiemoy instead of trying to sell the MSuper, have you considered contacting your seller to see if they can update the software with the faster tilt shut down?  If that is the main issue bothering you about the wheel, a simple software update could solve the problem? 

It's too bad Gotway still hasn't gotten on the ball with user firmware updates.  Why make customers return their wheel or mail control boards when it's not really necessary?  Carefully programmed and tested firmware releases would make life much easier. 

Regarding Ron's accident, that demonstrates the type of mistake anyone  could easily make unless they religiously read these forums and understand the science/physics behind these wheels.  It's so easy to assume that the manufacturer has set some sort of safety to prevent accidentally over-stepping the critical failure zero torque speed threshold that can be variable depending on slope, weight, wind, acceleration, and battery reserve.

If the firmware was smart enough to recognize an impending failure situation, a Ninebot One-like tiltback might have prevented serious injury.  Being allowed to set the tiltback too high is in my mind a programming error that the app should not have allowed.  Or at least it should have popped up a warning. 

regarding the Msuper.   It’s not the firmware.  It is just the way the unit is designed.  Some love it, I hate it.  I hate the top heavy feel, the extra wide stance because they just decided to shove more batteries into it creating a bow legged stance.  I hate the unsafe shutdown of the unit when your drop it by mistake.  I fear the cut off of the Gotways due to fried circuits, high speeds, voltage drops, etc that I’ve  read here on the forum.  All of these lees me from riding the wheel.  Plus I have  prefer the King Song 16 around town less than 1 hour of riding and I prefer the KS 18 S for longer group rides which has a seat.  I bought the Gotway because so many people raced about it.  But I don’t see anything all that great about the wheel.  I personally hate it over the KS18S.  

[eddiemoy]

3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I don't see a huge difference in safety other than King Song preventing users from making some serious app setting mistakes.  Quality control is a different issue though.  I've only ridden my Tesla 50 km so far , but it seemed to ride just like a Ninebot from 0 to 22 kph speeds.  If I kept riding it only in that range I think it would perform just as safely for the most part.

It seems like people are mainly running into trouble by making poor setting choices and exceeding limits. I believe my Tesla might still have the EUC Extreme extreme tilt shut off so I have to be very vigilant about that. Way back I believe they all shut off if tilted sideways over 45 degrees.  They likely adopted the 60-65 degree angle after EUC Extreme requested it and just kept the setting until recently. (That's my theory). 

I think Gotway is trying to play catch up with their wheels.  They are getting there.  Hopefully they will get that live charge port under check before someone gets hurt or a fire starts somehow.  I don't think we can expect EUC makers to be exactly the same.  It takes a lot of trial and error, money, R&D, and revision to grow a product.  Even with cars today we have recalls with different brands.  Toyota had their accelerator pedal issues while others airbag recalls. To distrust a brand for past mistakes and not expect improvements over time can be a little short-sighted in the long run. 

I almost chose the KS16S over the Tesla.  King Songs do have some solid products.  I hope my Gotway serves me well over time.  Each do have their strengths and weaknesses, some moreso than the other.  Whether it is a dealbreaker is for each individual to decide. 

Sorry, I have to disagree with you on that there isn’t much of a difference in safety between KS and gotway.  There is a world of a difference.  First of all, KS doesn’t allow for the user to MIS configure their wheel by turning the tiltback off.  Kingsong also doesn’t allow you to go faster than the wheel can safely go.  Gotway just gives you a beep that you are hitting 80%.  Kingsong will throttle you when it sense the battery pack is lower in voltage so that you don’t end up with faceplantitis.  

Gotway lets you do more in the app which is what some users like.  But it can hurt you when you make the wrong choices.  

Kingsong is programmed with safety in mind and it doesn’t alllow some of the safety features to be disabled.   The wheel is capable of going faster, tut they chose to give you a bigger margin for safety which I value more than the extra 5 miles in speed and danger on the Gotways. 

Ron was a newbie and he didn’t know about all the ways gotway can hurt you to respect the wheel and he took off tiltback probably.  But on the gotway if you set the tiltback too high, it would probably cause a cut out too.  Not the case on the Kingsong.  I ride the tilt back on the highest setting no problem. Again, it has to do with the margin for safety.  I’m sure the wheel can probably do the same speed as gotway, but they chose to go for safety instead of letting you go that fast and potentially cutting out and hurting yourself.  

[US69]

27 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Ron was a newbie and he didn’t know about all the ways gotway can hurt you to respect the wheel and he took off tiltback probably.  But on the gotway if you set the tiltback too high, it would probably cause a cut out too.  Not the case on the Kingsong.  I ride the tilt back on the highest setting no problem. Again, it has to do with the margin for safety.  I’m sure the wheel can probably do the same speed as gotway, but they chose to go for safety instead of letting you go that fast and potentially cutting out and hurting yourself.  

While i agree on the safety (and Quality) difference between KS and GW, i would blame this fall/Crash here totally on Ron himself!

When he released his first Tesla Review Video, i allready thought that this guy will faceplant in the next foreseeable future. Even as a 2 week newbie he was testing the Tesla driving wide over 30mph with his Family driving nearby shouting "Go Go Go"....was just a matter of time he had a cutoff and if he didnt Change his driving style at all it will not be his last!

It is just not "respect the beep"...and printing it on his hoodie and selling that, there are several other factors, and it seams Ron didnt learn anything from his fall.

Like you and others  pointed out, low Batterie or a hefty Speed bump might lead to a cutout also, even when you are not "riding the beeps". Or to high set tiltback might lead to disaster also!

I am happy he wasnt seriously injured, but man, it is just stupid behaviour!

 

And showing this Video on FB, Ytube and elsewhere is also not helping!!!

In a lots of countrys People are fighting for the right to drive this wheels...such a behaviour, like riding with such a crazy Speed, geared up like it is the dangerous sports ever, and than even faceplanting and crashing the wheel into the bystanding cars...this will not help with EUC acceptance. Not a bit....

Pre-Ordering/Selling T-Shirts/Hoodie because the attention this fall gets???  .....makes me really speechless!!! Rant over.

 

[Master Blaster]

@KingSong69  That sums it up perfectly 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Master Blaster

[Shad0z]

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

  Kingsong will throttle you when it sense the battery pack is lower in voltage so that you don’t end up with faceplantitis.  

so you think gotway doesnt do that too?

[Shad0z]

high speeds on euc should be seen as a "reserve" not something you keep doing all the time...

[eddiemoy]

18 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

so you think gotway doesnt do that too?

As far as I know gotway doesn’t do the throttling due to battery voltage.  I know the 80% warning is always there though.  

[US69]

48 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

so you think gotway doesnt do that too?

No, GW has no tiltback which is related to battery Level!

 

 

[Dancer]

22 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

No, GW has no tiltback which is related to battery Level!

 

 

I think it does.

 

[Shad0z]

30 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

No, GW has no tiltback which is related to battery Level!

 

 

 

i dont have tiltback enabled and i get beep when im going faster than apropritate for my battery level. and if i keepk going faster it will tilt me back

here is the video with the timestamp

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Shad0z

[eddiemoy]

10 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

 

i dont have tiltback enabled and i get beep when im going faster than apropritate for my battery level. and if i keepk going faster it will tilt me back

here is the video with the timestamp

 

If it has that feature, there would be NO high speed cut outs.  But if you look, it is all Gotway high speed cut outs. 

[Shad0z]

16 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

If it has that feature, there would be NO high speed cut outs.  But if you look, it is all Gotway high speed cut outs. 

i think it turns on the tiltback feature when the battery gets lower

because at high power it doesnt do it but when the battery level gets low it starts tilting back slightly and more with even lower battery

[US69]

13 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

i think it turns on the tiltback feature when the battery gets lower

because at high power it doesnt do it but when the battery level gets low it starts tilting back slightly and more with even lower battery

Sorry,

but thats just wishfull thinking that you have ;-)

On all GW you can set the tiltback to whatever you like between 3-48kmh...or you can leave it off.

And thats a fixed value then...there is no automatic!

What you mean and describe is just the VERY low battery warnings and tiltbacks that gets you off the wheel to save the battery...These tiltback are also set to a fixed values...

 

KS has another philosophy, 3d Alarm and tiltback can not be turned off....

For example:

You set last (3rd)Alarm to 38kmh and tiltback to 40kmh...when battery is depleting under 40% these both alarms are automaticily adjusted going down proportional to the battery.

Examples:

on 30% battery the 3rd Alarm comes off at 34kmh and tiltback at 36kmh

on 25% battery the 3rd Alarm comes off at 32kmh and tiltback at 34kmh....and so on and so on...

 

GW doesn't have that Feature.....

They just have the 80% Alarm, which  is proportional at least

(On older models even that alarm was only set to a fixed kmh value, so they got better here)

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by KingSong69

[kasenutty]

6 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I almost chose the KS16S over the Tesla.  King Songs do have some solid products.  I hope my Gotway serves me well over time.  Each do have their strengths and weaknesses, some moreso than the other.  Whether it is a dealbreaker is for each individual to decide. 

 

I chose the 16s over the Tesla recently, and the reason may surprise you. The reason is not for the safety, I simply do not want to spend as much time fixing broken things on my wheel as Tesla owners seem to. I'm willing to deal with a lower speed if I don't have to open the wheel as often.