THE VIDEO THREAD!

[Rehab1]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree, the back LEDs should go higher. There are always design compromises, thus never the perfect product.

Did you think NB created that huge mudguard  for just protection?  

 

[cg]

4 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Beautiful and healthy daily commute. Great place to ride a Z10. Are you riding this path in rain and bad weather as well or are you then using alternative means of commuting? I bought myself a huge colorful rain poncho and are now enjoying rainrides on my Z (without the mudguard) ? 

yes, it is a very nice trip. but A bit to long for bad weather for me (~34km), Good idea with the poncho. We are soon moving our workplace so it will only by 10km which will be more feasible to ride on rain. right now I'm using my car when weather is to bad, with the new place, it will probably be faster with the Z10 in rush hour

[Jon Stern]

Here's a quick test of TimeWarp on the new GoPro HERO7 Black camera.

Apologies for the bad horizon leveling. It was mounted on my backpack strap. Apologies also for the Vimeo compression artifacts.

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Jon Stern

[Rehab1]

37 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

Here's a quick test of TimeWarp on the new GoPro HERO7 Black camera.

Apologies for the bad horizon leveling. It was mounted on my backpack strap. Apologies also for the Vimeo compression artifacts.

 

Love the effect! No apologies necessary. Man my Hero 6 is only a few month old. What other advancements does the Hero 7 have over the 6? 

[Jon Stern]

10 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Love the effect! No apologies necessary. Man my Hero 6 is only a few month old. What other advancements does the Hero 7 have over the 6? 

• Much better stabilization (Hypersmooth)
• Live streaming
• Improved audio
• Improved still photos
• Cleaner UI

As well as this TimeWarp feature.

EDIT: Oh and...

• Vertical video (yuck)
• 4k60 stabilization
• Simplified pairing with iPhones

Edited September 21, 2018 by Jon Stern

[Jon Stern]

Here's another TimeWarp video. This time captured with the GoPro HERO7 Black mounted on my wheel. The stabilization you see here is the same in normal speed videos.

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Jon Stern

[Marty Backe]

The Z10 isn't just for fun on the trails 

 

[Marcglider]

Hey @Marty Backe I see your light is flashing... I can not get mine to do that... I watched the video posted recently on the light and it left me just as confused as you mentioned as well... have you figured out how to control it?... it is not that big a deal for me but it would be nice to know if someone has figured it out... Nice vid as well, maybe Ian needs to ck it out... 

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, Marcglider said:

Hey @Marty Backe I see your light is flashing... I can not get mine to do that... I watched the video posted recently on the light and it left me just as confused as you mentioned as well... have you figured out how to control it?... it is not that big a deal for me but it would be nice to know if someone has figured it out... Nice vid as well, maybe Ian needs to ck it out... 

Yeah, I'm going to post more slow-speed Z10 videos 

Regarding the flashing, I think I've been convinced that the flashing is not real, but an artifact of the camera syncing with the LEDs. You can see it on the brake light too. Ninebot modulates the lights (maybe to save power?) and the camera picks it up.

[eddiemoy]

EUC guy found another weak point in the gotway armor...  Melted motor wire.  When I opened my MSX, i notice the motor wires were much smaller than the battery wire.  This test confirms it.  Also confirms there isn't any failsafe.  yes, i understand the extreme condition here, but KS or Inmotion would have overheated and complained.  GW just continues to go and puts the rider in harms way.  they have a long way to go when it comes to safety features.

 

[Marty Backe]

48 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

EUC guy found another weak point in the gotway armor...  Melted motor wire.  When I opened my MSX, i notice the motor wires were much smaller than the battery wire.  This test confirms it.  Also confirms there isn't any failsafe.  yes, i understand the extreme condition here, but KS or Inmotion would have overheated and complained.  GW just continues to go and puts the rider in harms way.  they have a long way to go when it comes to safety features.

 

It's not another weak point. This has been an issue with Gotway for years. Nothing new here. I really have no idea what Mathias was trying to accomplish here. I could have predicted the result.

I agree that Gotway has chosen to allow MOSFETs to blow or wires to melt instead of employing a better circuit board / firmware design.

Fortunately us experienced Gotway riders know how to ride our wheels to prevent this from happening.

[Jon Stern]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Yeah, I'm going to post more slow-speed Z10 videos 

Regarding the flashing, I think I've been convinced that the flashing is not real, but an artifact of the camera syncing with the LEDs. You can see it on the brake light too. Ninebot modulates the lights (maybe to save power?) and the camera picks it up.

Yes, LEDs are controlled by pulsing them. The duty cycle of the pulses determines the brightness. This means they are actually flashing on and off, but typically faster than the human eye can see.

Image sensors have periods where each row of pixels is reset in turn, and then at some exposure interval later read out.

This interacts with the LED pulsing to create a strobing effect in the video.

This is a big problem in the automotive industry where this LED flicker could mean a safrty-critical system missing a smart road sign, traffic light, or brake lights.

The remedy for this is a complex pixel and readout architecture that compromises other aspects of the sensor's performance.

[winterwheel]

1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

Fortunately us experienced Gotway riders know how to ride our wheels to prevent this from happening.

So don't push cars around then. Good to know that's off the table.

[meepmeepmayer]

Wow, what a cool idea @EUC GUY Destructive testing! Very helpful. Who pays for the damage, though... ouch, you knew this would happen.

I can't bring myself to see this is a weakness or bad design by Gotway

GW and others have the same (or comparable) axle and motor cable thickness. The only difference here is GW uses much stronger mosfets, so they aren't the weakest part. And since the heat sensor is at the mosfets (and how would one reliably monitor cable temperatures?)...

So we can blame them for not using an even thicker axle and cables so the (monitored) mosfets would be the weakest part ... or do we blame them for simply using better mosfets than anyone else, while the rest is the same? All the other manufacturers do is monitor mosfet temperature and warn if it gets too high. As does Gotway. It just doesn't work for this situation.

As far as I'm concerned, this proves the mosfets are indeed "better" than the cabling. Good to know. But I don't interpret that as a weakness, as the alternative employed by the other manufacturers is simply using weaker mosfets.

Would be different if it happened on an extreme hill test. But pushing a car around just shows how overengineered the msX is. So does this video show a safety weakness or a safety plus?

(I would still like to see motor cable thickness doubled just to be sure. That would be God-tier mountain riding hardware)

Edited September 22, 2018 by meepmeepmayer
spelling

[EUCMania]

It is easy to sense wire temperature. Just put wrap a temperature sensitive resistor ( heat sensor) on the cable and the control board reads it ohm. Easy to do for GW.

[Jon Stern]

I thought this was a video thread, not the Gotway reliability thread?

I'm not a Gotway owner, so this discussion (and the notifications that I'm getting about updates on the video thread) isn't very interesting to me. Would you please be so kind as to relocate this to another thread?

Thanks!

[EUCGUY]

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wow, what a cool idea @EUC GUY Destructive testing! Very helpful. Who pays for the damage, though... ouch, you knew this would happen.

I can't bring myself to see this is a weakness or bad design by Gotway

GW and others have the same (or comparable) axle and motor cable thickness. The only difference here is GW uses much stronger mosfets, so they aren't the weakest part. And since the heat sensor is at the mosfets (and how would one reliably monitor cable temperatures?)...

So we can blame them for not using an even thicker axle and cables so the (monitored) mosfets would be the weakest part ... or do we blame them for simply using better mosfets than anyone else, while the rest is the same? All the other manufacturers do is monitor mosfet temperature and warn if it gets too high. As does Gotway. It just doesn't work for this situation.

As far as I'm concerned, this proves the mosfets are indeed "better" than the cabling. Good to know. But I don't interpret that as a weakness, as the alternative employed by the other manufacturers is simply using weaker mosfets.

Would be different if it happened on an extreme hill test. But pushing a car around just shows how overengineered the msX is. So does this video show a safety weakness or a safety plus?

(I would still like to see motor cable thickness doubled just to be sure. That would be God-tier mountain riding hardware)

It proves that the msx is a beast and i love it so much . haha
I would like for gotway to change the firmware. current sensoring and alarm when "whatever amount" is exceded. Cables are rated for a fixed amount before they start to melt, have that as the limit and warn the rider. that would be more than enough to prevent this type of failure in the future. easy fix.    right? 

anyway. talked to gotway, new motor being sent 25 september, so next weekend i will have it up and running again

[Ziiten]

10 minutes ago, EUC GUY said:

anyway. talked to gotway, new motor being sent 25 september, so next weekend i will have it up and running again

I am guessing you did not send them a link to that video where you created the meltdown.

[EUCGUY]

3 minutes ago, Ziiten said:

I am guessing you did not send them a link to that video where you created the meltdown.

I told them it was a test. i did pay for new parts

Edited September 22, 2018 by EUC GUY

[stephen]

10 minutes ago, EUC GUY said:

I told them it was a test. i did pay for new parts

legend??

[eddiemoy]

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wow, what a cool idea @EUC GUY Destructive testing! Very helpful. Who pays for the damage, though... ouch, you knew this would happen.

I can't bring myself to see this is a weakness or bad design by Gotway

GW and others have the same (or comparable) axle and motor cable thickness. The only difference here is GW uses much stronger mosfets, so they aren't the weakest part. And since the heat sensor is at the mosfets (and how would one reliably monitor cable temperatures?)...

So we can blame them for not using an even thicker axle and cables so the (monitored) mosfets would be the weakest part ... or do we blame them for simply using better mosfets than anyone else, while the rest is the same? All the other manufacturers do is monitor mosfet temperature and warn if it gets too high. As does Gotway. It just doesn't work for this situation.

As far as I'm concerned, this proves the mosfets are indeed "better" than the cabling. Good to know. But I don't interpret that as a weakness, as the alternative employed by the other manufacturers is simply using weaker mosfets.

Would be different if it happened on an extreme hill test. But pushing a car around just shows how overengineered the msX is. So does this video show a safety weakness or a safety plus?

(I would still like to see motor cable thickness doubled just to be sure. That would be God-tier mountain riding hardware)

Think the firmware of other manufactures don’t allow excessive current.  They know the limits of their wire.  That is why we’ve never seen melted wires in others like king song or inmotion in  @Marty Backe‘s hill tests that cause most of the gotway melted wires.  

@Marty Backe, I say it is another weak point because after your testing causing melted wires, I thought gotway made some changes to the wiring.

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, EUC GUY said:

It proves that the msx is a beast and i love it so much . haha
I would like for gotway to change the firmware. current sensoring and alarm when "whatever amount" is exceded. Cables are rated for a fixed amount before they start to melt, have that as the limit and warn the rider. that would be more than enough to prevent this type of failure in the future. easy fix.    right? 

anyway. talked to gotway, new motor being sent 25 september, so next weekend i will have it up and running again

Mathais, I don’t understand why this test makes you think the MSX is a beast?  Only reason you can push the car is that gotway doesn’t know the limit, this is bad for riders safety.  If pushed, the wheel will self destruct.  If they have correct firmware and sensors, this should not happen.  I don’t want to have to open the wheel and check the wiring for damage if I did some intense riding.  This is not good no matter how people spin it  

it is an easy fix, the other manufactures already there for a while.  Gotway still have not fixed this even with marty’s Testing.  What should happen is you get an overload or over heat warning, tilt back to slowly dump the rider to prevent further temperature rise.  Wait a few minutes than ride again.  Or in your case push a car.  

[stephen]

i think the car pushing was serious over kill to any situation for us normal riding he didn't just push the car around he stopped and pushed it from standstill several times he was testing untill distruction till something  give, 6 minutes at that stress i thought was good . he pushes and pushed like pushing against a brick wall until it got going  , very nice video indeed?

[EUCGUY]

48 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Mathais, I don’t understand why this test makes you think the MSX is a beast?  Only reason you can push the car is that gotway doesn’t know the limit, this is bad for riders safety.  If pushed, the wheel will self destruct.  If they have correct firmware and sensors, this should not happen.  I don’t want to have to open the wheel and check the wiring for damage if I did some intense riding.  This is not good no matter how people spin it  

it is an easy fix, the other manufactures already there for a while.  Gotway still have not fixed this even with marty’s Testing.  What should happen is you get an overload or over heat warning, tilt back to slowly dump the rider to prevent further temperature rise.  Wait a few minutes than ride again.  Or in your case push a car.  

No matter how you look at it. pushing a car around is pretty badass. joke aside, if you know for a fact that the other brands dont allow you to draw more current than the cables can withstand, id love to see some example. push something heavy and see if any alarm is triggered. if only for a few seconds. 

Im not saying that allowing the unit to draw more than its buildt for over a long time is good, but at short moments, no problem and it is best to prevent a shutdown if the rider hits a pothole or something like that. . i would like some safety feature as well, as mentioned higher up and on other plattforms.

Simple temp sensor inside the sleve of the motor cable or have it done with code.

this aside. i have high doubts anyone will experience this type of meltdown with this wheel from normal use

my test was of the abusive type, my goal was to push intil something gave.   Would i ever ride this hard normally?   never.


 

[eddiemoy]

13 minutes ago, EUC GUY said:

No matter how you look at it. pushing a car around is pretty badass. joke aside, if you know for a fact that the other brands dont allow you to draw more current than the cables can withstand, id love to see some example. push something heavy and see if any alarm is triggered. if only for a few seconds. 

Im not saying that allowing the unit to draw more than its buildt for over a long time is good, but at short moments, no problem and it is best to prevent a shutdown if the rider hits a pothole or something like that. . i would like some safety feature as well, as mentioned higher up and on other plattforms.

Simple temp sensor inside the sleve of the motor cable or have it done with code.

this aside. i have high doubts anyone will experience this type of meltdown with this wheel from normal use

my test was of the abusive type, my goal was to push intil something gave.   Would i ever ride this hard normally?   never.


 

If someone willing to buy me a new wheel I’ll give it a try.  Not willing to throw w]away $2K, I don’t make any money from YouTube to pay for that. LOL

yes, I understand the extreme nature of your test.  Hopefully gotway will put in something to prevent this. Or maybe they take the same argument as all the gotway fanboys and dismiss this as no one wil, ever do this so, not going to bother putting in any safety feature. 

Only time will tell what they decide to do.