New Inmotion V10 / V10F

[eddiemoy]

15 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Different rubber compositions.

The stock V10F Kenda tire is unlike any other Kenda I've ridden before, very bouncy and dense, like my fav Chao Yang tires, more rubber composition to both. 

The typical Kenda tire is very hollow and bouncy, less rubber / more synthetics (adds to durability), not very comfortable for bumps. If you replaced the KS18S tire with the right Chao Yang 18" x 2.5", you'll be surprised how different the shock absorption feel is.

Chris, did you change out the KS18S tire?  I didn’t realize how hard it felt until I rode the V10F today!  Do you have a link to the other tire?  

Did you also notice it is a 19”, the KS18S?  

[that0n3guy]

37 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

the charging port is right under the handle.

This did seem odd to me too.   But seeing how I usually walk my v10f into the house/garage, I just turn it off, put it on its end with and lean it against the wall when I charge.

As for the acceleration/breaking.   I'm surprised no EUC company lets you customize the power curves or have different power curve options.   Onewheel does this, i think its one of the reasons so many love them... or at least its a selling point.

[houseofjob]

16 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Chris, did you change out the KS18S tire?  I didn’t realize how hard it felt until I rode the V10F today!  Do you have a link to the other tire?  

I have this Chao Yang CYT 18" x 2.5" tire at home that I've been meaning to swap out the stock KS18S tire for (also bought a 16" x 2.5" CYT for the V10F as well, but realizing it's probably not necessary, considering the uncharacteristic bounciness of That Kenda).

 

16 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Did you also notice it is a 19”, the KS18S?  

True diameter is always all over the place, according to tire thickness, consistency, tread (esp. knobby), etc., so not surprising.

This is why the V8, with it's super tiny tire clearance, was hard to find a replacement tire that wouldn't rub, even across the same 16" x 2.125" tire 'standard'

Edited June 5, 2018 by houseofjob

[WARPed1701D]

2 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

 not sure what the cut off is... 5mph when it won't cut off with accidental press?

 

2 hours ago, that0n3guy said:

Mine doesn't activate when going fast walking speed I think.  It will turn off when you get below 2-5mph like eddiemoy said.

The power button is similar.   I wish it was a push and hold to turn off similar to power on.   I've accidentally bumped it once while standing there (at a stop light) and turned it off.

On the V8 the cut-off is disabled > 5kph and the power button is disabled > 1kph. I see no reason why the V10 would be different.

[em1barns]

1 hour ago, maltocs said:

 until they come out with a charge doctor for it.

It seems to me the 3-pin port is the same as the v8. If this is the case, there is already a charge doctor for it.

[eddiemoy]

I was wondering why it was increasingly difficult to hit 25mph.  It kept on tilting me back and then I remember the speed throttling.  

The speed throttling staring right after the voltage starts dropping SUCKS!!

[that0n3guy]

@eddiemoy Let me know at what mph it throttles you when your around 85% battery.     Since I don't have warning sounds, I think was feeling tiltback around 21-22mph... but the tiltback was soo wimpy (not like the tiltback if you set it at 14mph) that I might have been pushing through it.

[maltocs]

4 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I was wondering why it was increasingly difficult to hit 25mph.  It kept on tilting me back and then I remember the speed throttling.  

The speed throttling staring right after the voltage starts dropping SUCKS!!

I have a feeling the OVERLOAD warning is also tied into the same ratio as the battery drains. When it yelled OVERLOAD at me, tilted me off, and shut down, the hill was steep, but nothing my ninebot couldn't climb. I only had 20% battery according to the app so it must hit overload at a very low load. 

And regarding smoothness and not realizing how fast i'm going, totally correct. It easily hit 22mph. I thought it was just super windy because i've never experienced anything faster than 14mph until I looked at my GPS watch. I only have a month of experience, I have no business going 20+mph.  

[Mrd777]

Hey folks just opened the box to my new V10f and there is a terrible rubbing sound.. pretty miserable !

any ideas?

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Mrd777

[eddiemoy]

21 minutes ago, Mrd777 said:

Hey folks just opened the box to my new V10f and there is a terrible rubbing sound.. pretty miserable !

any ideas?

 

First thing I would suspect is the air stem. 

[Mrd777]

6 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

First thing I would suspect is the air stem. 

Yes, I wouldn’t of posted this if it was the valve stem.. it’s certainly not. Ughh

[soulson]

Just got my V10F today. Unfortunately, the alerts and sounds seem to work as intended. ?

I agree with most of eddiemoy's assessment.

• The wheel is very smooth. It rides like what I imagine a Bentley rides like – if only I had the money to ride one. ?
• I felt comfortable riding it at the 40kph limiter, but to be honest, that's too fast to ride an EUC on any road I can think of in Michigan.
• The pedals are comfy, but I did some offroading too and my feet didn't feel as secure on the larger rubber pedals as they do on smaller ones with griptape.
• Acceleration and (especially) braking feel sluggish, although I'm curious if this is because of lack of leverage, due to the pedal arms being shorter than on most wheels. If I kinda jump on the front of the pedals with my toes, I can create bursts of acceleration more like I expect from a 3hp motor.
  • It actually almost feels like it has turbo lag. Once you get moving, it starts to sing.
• I had the same sort of problem as eddiemoy with the android app. Connecting fails sometimes, but once bluetooth does connect, it stays connected until you quit the app or turn off the wheel.
• I do like the lift button on the handle.
• The most comfortable settings for me are 1 degree forward tilt and 3300 responsiveness. I have not yet experimented with tire pressure.
• Once, after a particularly aggressive acceleration to probably close to 40kph, the wheel tilted back what seemed like 45 degrees—it was not possible to ride—and stayed there until I turned it off and back on.
  • It gave no audible warning before doing this.
  • I was able to slow to a stop safely before dismounting.
  • The mainboard temp read about 44C.
  • When this happened, I had the app connected, and it crashed.
• I weigh 202 pounds, and based on my ride, I would estimate that the usable range of this V10F is about 42km or 26mi. I rode 3km of dirt trails with lots of hills and 18km of flat roads. This took my battery from 91% to 45%.
• My tire is also mounted backwards.

Edited June 6, 2018 by soulson

[novazeus]

my v10f came with about 15psi in the tire. i guess i’m weird because the first thing i did was put about 5psi over what the sidewall said before i rode it. the pedals were tilted forward which made it slow to accelerate and sluggish to stop. when i leveled the pedals using a level, it made a big difference. feels about the same as the 18s.

[eddiemoy]

12 minutes ago, novazeus said:

my v10f came with about 15psi in the tire. i guess i’m weird because the first thing i did was put about 5psi over what the sidewall said before i rode it. the pedals were tilted forward which made it slow to accelerate and sluggish to stop. when i leveled the pedals using a level, it made a big difference. feels about the same as the 18s.

This thing doesn’t stop anywhere close to the 18s.  I’ll do some braking tests tomorrow.  Hurt my back lifting it into my trunk.  

 

21 minutes ago, soulson said:

Just got my V10F today. Unfortunately, the alerts and sounds seem to work as intended. ?

I agree with most of eddiemoy's assessment.

• The wheel is very smooth. It rides like what I imagine a Bentley rides like – if only I had the money to ride one. ?
• I felt comfortable riding it at the 40kph limiter, but to be honest, that's too fast to ride an EUC on any road I can think of in Michigan.
• The pedals are comfy, but I did some offroading too and my feet didn't feel as secure on the larger rubber pedals as they do on smaller ones with griptape.
• Acceleration and (especially) braking feel sluggish, although I'm curious if this is because of lack of leverage, due to the pedal arms being shorter than on most wheels. If I kinda jump on the front of the pedals with my toes, I can create bursts of acceleration more like I expect from a 3hp motor.
  • It actually almost feels like it has turbo lag. Once you get moving, it starts to sing.
• I had the same sort of problem as eddiemoy with the android app. Connecting fails sometimes, but once bluetooth does connect, it stays connected until you quit the app or turn off the wheel.
• I do like the lift button on the handle.
• The most comfortable settings for me are 1 degree forward tilt and 3300 responsiveness. I have not yet experimented with tire pressure.
• Once, after a particularly aggressive acceleration to probably close to 40kph, the wheel tilted back what seemed like 45 degrees—it was not possible to ride—and stayed there until I turned it off and back on.
  • It gave no audible warning before doing this.
  • I was able to slow to a stop safely before dismounting.
  • The mainboard temp read about 44C.
  • When this happened, I had the app connected, and it crashed.
• I weigh 202 pounds, and based on my ride, I would estimate that the usable range of this V10F is about 42km or 26mi. I rode 3km of dirt trails with lots of hills and 18km of flat roads. This took my battery from 91% to 45%.
• My tire is also mounted backwards.

The connectivity problem I had was due to my iPhone X.  I rebooted it and it worked fine.  I’ve had the same issue with my Bluetooth connection to my car.  So don’t know.

[RichieV]

Received mine today. Still putting it through its paces. So far my findings agree with many others here.

Cons:

• loose trolley handle
• charging port cover tightness is annoying
• shitty app (Android)
• charger approaches China syndrome levels of heat

Pros:

• decent build quality
• huuuge pedals
• comfortable and smooth ride
• wheel height in relation to my leg makes launching much easier

Neither here nor there:

• I've adjusted to the "sluggish" acceleration and braking; in fact I think its accel/braking characteristics lend to its perceived smoothness of ride quality so I've taken this out of the "Cons" section
• not sure yet about the rubber on the pedals; will have to try them wet
• I hit the factory speed limit of 24kph and was greeted by a jarring alarm and sudden tiltback; you probably want to avoid that by setting it to 40kph before you do any speed tests

The cons are more like nitpicks and not anywhere close to dealbreakers.  Overall I am liking this wheel very much and I think is a better fit for me over my ACM (which I still like immensely).

One question, though.  How do you connect the speaker to your phone to play music?  The manual says it must be done in the app but I couldn't find where.  I can pair it with my phone in the conventional manner but it doesn't give me the option to use it as a speaker.

Edited June 6, 2018 by RichieV
changed my mind and also added a few things

[soulson]

When I lean forward, it makes me smile.

[Mrd777]

1 hour ago, RichieV said:

Cons:

•  sluggish acceleration and braking even at the stiffest pedal setting
• loose trolley handle
• charging port cover tightness is annoying
• shitty app (Android)

Yes, also strange tire loading numbers, reversed ties, and for me an un-rideable wheel right out of the box. The scraping is terrible, and from what I understand, I’m not the only one. Super disappointed that I got a brand new wheel today that I can’t ride. Seems like a lot of this could have worked out before they went into production. Hey @Bobwheel, and @Jeffrey Scott Will any confirmation that these issues can be addressed?

[Fastmike]

7 hours ago, soulson said:

Just got my V10F today. Unfortunately, the alerts and sounds seem to work as intended. ?

I agree with most of eddiemoy's assessment.

• The wheel is very smooth. It rides like what I imagine a Bentley rides like – if only I had the money to ride one. ?
• I felt comfortable riding it at the 40kph limiter, but to be honest, that's too fast to ride an EUC on any road I can think of in Michigan.
• The pedals are comfy, but I did some offroading too and my feet didn't feel as secure on the larger rubber pedals as they do on smaller ones with griptape.
• Acceleration and (especially) braking feel sluggish, although I'm curious if this is because of lack of leverage, due to the pedal arms being shorter than on most wheels. If I kinda jump on the front of the pedals with my toes, I can create bursts of acceleration more like I expect from a 3hp motor.
  • It actually almost feels like it has turbo lag. Once you get moving, it starts to sing.
• I had the same sort of problem as eddiemoy with the android app. Connecting fails sometimes, but once bluetooth does connect, it stays connected until you quit the app or turn off the wheel.
• I do like the lift button on the handle.
• The most comfortable settings for me are 1 degree forward tilt and 3300 responsiveness. I have not yet experimented with tire pressure.
• Once, after a particularly aggressive acceleration to probably close to 40kph, the wheel tilted back what seemed like 45 degrees—it was not possible to ride—and stayed there until I turned it off and back on.
  • It gave no audible warning before doing this.
  • I was able to slow to a stop safely before dismounting.
  • The mainboard temp read about 44C.
  • When this happened, I had the app connected, and it crashed.
• I weigh 202 pounds, and based on my ride, I would estimate that the usable range of this V10F is about 42km or 26mi. I rode 3km of dirt trails with lots of hills and 18km of flat roads. This took my battery from 91% to 45%.
• My tire is also mounted backwards.

Great feedback! Thanks for that. 

The issue you experimented is worrying me since you may have had a bad crash because of that 'bug'. Product is obviously not well testeed and they were in a hurry to ship it...

The very limited range sounds odd to me! Are you sure you got a V10F and not a V10??? Something is wrong there. 

[Fastmike]

4 hours ago, Mrd777 said:

Yes, also strange tire loading numbers, reversed ties, and for me an un-rideable wheel right out of the box. The scraping is terrible, and from what I understand, I’m not the only one. Super disappointed that I got a brand new wheel today that I can’t ride. Seems like a lot of this could have worked out before they went into production. Hey @Bobwheel, and @Jeffrey Scott Will any confirmation that these issues can be addressed?

For sure the 'sluggish' acceleration and braking is very disapointing! And in regards to the issue with you wheel, that proof that InMotion does not have any QC test! Rotating the wheel seems to me the minimum they can do before packing and shipping any wheel!

 

I am going to wait a litle bit for more feedback but may cancel my preorder...   ?

Edited June 6, 2018 by Fastmike

[Demargon]

11 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Seems like it was designed without the handle in mind.

the v5 have the same problem with the handle and the charging port. So I doubt they aren't aware of this issue

[eddiemoy]

I think the slow acceleration off the line and Weak braking has to do with their algorithm to stretch the battery for range.  When I was braking, it shows regen and green and max of 300watts.  This reminds me of the Tesla cars and their dashboard.   The Tesla has 60kw of regen but over 320kw of power output.  When using regen to brake, it takes a long time to come to a stop.  If you really want to stop quickly you use the brake pedal.  

The weak acceleration off the line throttling seems to be their way to stop you from using too much energy. Acceleration from standstill uses the most energy.  I remember seeing eboard folks with their limited 5mile range batteries kick start their boards before engaging the throttle.

what I want is a performance mode that turns this battery saving features off.

@Jeffrey Scott Will and @Bobwheel, any way to fix the sluggish off the line acceleration and weak and slow braking??

[Rehab1]

7 hours ago, Mrd777 said:

Yes, also strange tire loading numbers, reversed ties, and for me an un-rideable wheel right out of the box. The scraping is terrible, and from what I understand, I’m not the only one. Super disappointed that I got a brand new wheel today that I can’t ride. Seems like a lot of this could have worked out before they went into production. Hey @Bobwheel, and @Jeffrey Scott Will any confirmation that these issues can be addressed?

Have you rotated your tire manually without power up to see if the tire/ rim scraps the inside panels? I had an annoying scraping sound and found out the noise was actually coming from the BT speaker. It was not a crackly/ static sound but a sporadic scraping noise. Once I turned off the BT is went away. The sound  has never appeared again even after a long ride this past weekend. 

It there is an actual tire/ rim rub try using jumbo sidewalk chalk and coat both outside regions of the rim and tire. Then try rotating the tire by hand at first to see if any of the chalk wears off in a specific area indicating a rub. If the rub only appears when riding then ride a short distance on the V10F and again check for a rub mark.

If there’s a visible rub mark present send a photo/ video of the area to both  @Bobwheel and @Jeffrey Scott Will for their advice. 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Rehab1

[Scatcat]

17 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

3) acceleration from standstill is shit.  inmotion need to improve this.  i think they are throttling this to get more range because stop and go uses most energy.

4) breaking is shit.  don't know why.  Inmotion need to improve this.

My guess would be as the guy in the earlier review, that it is to conserve battery power. The other day I speculated in that part of GWs problems with sometimes ridiculous current spikes are because of firmware that doesn't filter sudden momentary requests for power. There it seems they're happy as long as the feel and behaviour is right, but haven't handled what happens if you go over a bump while in an unfavourable situation. It should be fairly doable to take an input request for say 70A at 80V for 1/100 sec and realise it is well over the max rating for board and motor. When that happens you flatten it programmatically and spread it out to 45A over 2/100 sec. If you'd do that, you will most probably avoid overleaning anyway by applying usable power for just a fraction longer, rather than overstress the system and not get more power even when you do.

In this case I think they've done too "good" of a job with the filtering, avoiding not just the spikes, but evening out the curve too much.

On my GT16 I've noted that when I brake really hard, to the point where the overpower alarm starts beeping. I can read the curve in wheellog and see a "spike" of somewhere around 45-50A depending on voltage, which corresponds fairly well to the 3.5kW max of the motor. That braking power is pretty good, but I would happily have a max of 5kW if I could get it - but not if I have to use a bloody fire extinguisher and change board on the EUC afterwards.

Overall, from my point of view. The ability to brake hard is one of the things I really want in a EUC. There are all too many potential scary situations you can get into without even being careless. Situations where you really can't swerve, turn or snake your way to a stop, and the alternative to stopping doesn't bear thinking on... Stupid drivers of cars and bikes, pedestrians with their mind in the smartphone world, that suddenly get into their head to cross the road without looking, deer, dogs and kids you didn't see - you name it.

I really hope IM does something about this. If they do, and fast, they show that they're proactive and deserving of their reputation for quality.

[that0n3guy]

I spent some time trying to accelerate hard and break hard last night.   I would put my feet way forward on the peddles and I could accelerate pretty fast, mostly because I could put more pressure on the peddle on the very end.   This would make it so I could barely break since my heals were so far forward.   I also did the same for breaking (move feet back so i could break harder).   Breaking was better that way, but unstable because my feet were so far back... and then accel sucks.

I weight 194lbs, probably more like 205 with all my equipment and clothes on.   It was hard for me to put enough torque onto the front of the peddle to get it to accelerate hard... but I could sort-of do it.    If you weigh less, say 175lbs, I would guess this thing would feel even more sluggish and accelerate even more slowly.

This was the case no matter the peddle sensitivity.   I really do think that peddle sensitivity just changes feel more than the ability to accel/break quickly.   The 2048 setting is more "squishy" which just makes me lean forward more before it starts to accelerate... this makes it easier to over lean.  Its not that its accelerating slower, its that your "move into position" more before it reacts

With my 14c, I can idle (or pendulum front to back) decently.   With this its much more difficult because I can outlean it so easy going from forward to backwards (or vise versa).  I actually think the v10f is easier to ride slow (it seems to balance side to side better, even really slow) than the 14c.

[eddiemoy]

OK, just came back from some braking tests this morning.  To my surprise, I have to eat my words.  The braking is on par with the 18S not much worse.  But I could consistently get the same braking on the 18S.  After more tries on the V10F, I was able to get mostly the same result.  Sometimes it is off by 2-3 feet longer. 

Testing was to get going at 15mph then doing braking as hard as I could, I got about 19 feet braking distance for both V10F and 18S.  So it isn't any worse than the KS18S in braking.  Wonder why it feels like it is slower in braking.  But the V10F is 2kw motor vs 1.5kw, also smaller, 17" vs 19", so you would think it should brake harder.  Adjusting the peddle feel did nothing.

The interesting thing is when I did the same testing with the KS16, not S, I was able to consistently do 2-3 feet shorter on the same run from 15mph.  I also noticed the negative current generated by the KS16 was twice that of the KS18S.  20amps vs 10amps.  That explains why it was braking harder.  I don't have a view into the current on the V10F so I cannot compare.