Ninebot One Z : Z6-Z8-Z10

[Krom68]

On 11/9/2018 at 12:43 PM, Nic said:

Good to know. Here's what I found...

https://batterybro.com/products/lg-mh1-inr18650mh1-3200mah-10a

LG specify max 3.1A charging current for their MH1 cells, so 2p configuration would give max 6.2A from charger. That's max ... they specify standard charge as 1.55A, so 2p would be 3.1A from charger. Its probably best to stick to standard charge, particularly as the cells age and their internal resistance increases.

2p (3A STD, 6A MAX)

3p (4.5A STD, 9A MAX)

4p (6A STD, 12A MAX)

5p (7.5A STD, 15A MAX)

6p (9A STD, 18A MAX)

I don't know to many details about the z10 battery but:

if total capacity is arround 1kwh that mean we have 5 our 6 cells in parallele ( quick math gives me 189w/h per blocks of 16s cells)

So we are way out from the max by charging at 5A (15 to 18Amp max).

 

I have been in the RC /drone buisness for years and charging at 1c (roughly 1h for the full charge) is pretty much slow charge, as we can go above 5C for quality batteries.

Ok we are talking about LIPO here but I gess li/ion are not far off and can for sure handle a 1C charge , the limiting factor is most frequently the BMS.

 

And quick question: do you need the charge doctor on top of the quick charger or is it optional?

 

 

[palachzzz]

1 hour ago, Krom68 said:

I don't know to many details about the z10 battery

Two 14s3p batteries of LG MH1 cells (so 14s6p for whole battery), 
For each MH1 - 1.55A (0.5C) is normal charge, 3.1A (1C ) is fast charge. 5C doesn't acceptable for Li-ion. 

1 hour ago, Krom68 said:

And quick question: do you need the charge doctor on top of the quick charger or is it optional?

Optional

Edited November 12, 2018 by palachzzz

[Nic]

4 hours ago, palachzzz said:

I returned
The charging and discharging current passes through different FETs and different circuits.
I tested the maximum charge current, it is 9A for Z10 and this is just the normal charge current for our elements according to the datasheet.
9A is ok, but not more - bms turns off the charging port if the current is more than 9A for one second. I tried 9A for a 1 hour - no problem, but charging port has become warm, at 6A - almost no heating.

 

Have you checked battery temperature after charging? I wonder how this is affected by higher charge rate.

[Ch.Eng.62]

It is possible the charging connector to be damaged by the higher current. Who knows its amperage rating.

[Chriull]

47 minutes ago, Nic said:

Have you checked battery temperature after charging? I wonder how this is affected by higher charge rate.

 

5 hours ago, palachzzz said:

I tried 9A for a 1 hour - no problem, but charging port has become warm, at 6A - almost no heating.

Battery temp was not mentioned - just the plug seems to be at it's limit? But charging with 0,5C == ~9A is the recommended manufacturer charging current (http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/1500000-1599999/001558879-da-01-en-LG_LIION_AKKU_INR18650MH1__3200MAH.pdf) beside the max charging current of 1C (~18A)

... but you are right - just because the charging current is well in the specified range it does not mean, that the temperature inside the packaging and the wheel stays in appropriate ranges...

On the other hand, i charge my KS16S (16s4p) since over a year with a 8 ampere charger (with a "reinforced" plug and wiring) and i did not notice any negative side effects.

PS.: some nice additional infos from the datasheet:

2.10 Storage Temperature (for shipping state):

1 month -20 ~ 60℃

3 month -20 ~ 45℃

1 year -20 ~ 20℃

[palachzzz]

3 hours ago, Chriull said:

Battery temp was not mentioned - just the plug seems to be at it's limit?

I charged with 6A from 10% to 100%, after that battery was 38 C (1st battery) and 35 C (2nd)
But with 9A I charged from 50% to 100%, as the last stage is constant voltage, so current decreased after about 30 min, and at the end of charge it was 35 C (1st) and 33 C (2nd)
It seems that the main influence has a charge time

[RoberAce]

 

[Marty Backe]

48 minutes ago, RoberAce said:

 

That was beautiful. Assuming no injuries, I love to see EUC wipeouts caught on film  Bravo for capturing with two perspectives 

[EUCGUY]

1 hour ago, RoberAce said:

 

Muddy waters- hehe.   hope ur okey

[Krom68]

10 hours ago, palachzzz said:

Two 14s3p batteries of LG MH1 cells (so 14s6p for whole battery), 
For each MH1 - 1.55A (0.5C) is normal charge, 3.1A (1C ) is fast charge. 5C doesn't acceptable for Li-ion. 

 

Ok thanks a lot so plenty of margin with 6x1.55A for normal charge...

[mrelwood]

On 11/12/2018 at 11:20 PM, RoberAce said:

 

I learned it earlier too, for standard EUC tires wet mud has pretty much the friction of ice. No injuries for me, hopefully you too!

[RoberAce]

22 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I learned it earlier too, for standard EUC tires wet mud has pretty much the friction of ice. No injuries for me, hopefully you too!

All fine finished without any consecuences

battery issue 

[Electroman]

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I learned it earlier too, for standard EUC tires wet mud has pretty much the friction of ice. No injuries for me, hopefully you too!

Yeah injuries suck, especially those putting us out for a longer period of time, particularly hurtful, etc..

Ohh man that is quite a power slide, loss of traction, nasty when unprepared for it no doubt.  I had a few myself and still a mystery to me how I actually managed to ride them out and stay upright even at quite the speed and wet stone surface with autumn leaves on them stones.

I did fall over once with my wheel though, not the old ACM that one been in a crash or 2, the MSX did slip but at max 5km/h at a surface like this one here ,not that specific one but image give an idea about what happen when a regular cleaner (or cleaning technicians like some want to be called) decide to use soap in a new way.

I kid you not, I did see him, I did see the floor was wet I saw it all but since I was first up the escalator off the train, ohh well I stood no chance at stopping the fall.    A few meters behind me people looked at me before entering the wet zone and started a chaotic dance floor by themselves, had to swipe the floor with a finger and no question this cleaning technician was not very technical at all and apparently quite confused about mixing ration?

 

[Damarafaka]

Backwards on a Z10

 

[Damarafaka]

The Z10 way

 

[Lukasz]

Z10 review after 2027km with + and -  

 

 

[Girth Brooks]

@Damarafaka I'm curious to know how much air pressure you are running on your Z10 in the videos posted above.

[US69]

1 hour ago, Lukasz said:

Z10 review after 2027km with + and -  

 

 

Just a small hint:

yes, there have been z10 switch off/cut off while riding...One of the first english users “Dean” has broken arm or shoulder, when speeding up the unit it switches off without any warning, has been video recorded in the Ninebot owners group on FB. He needs ambulance to hospital....

Then, technically, what you call “unique 2 battery compartments” is actually done by all other manufacters, too, since a long time. The Z10 has 2 times 14s3p....GW has 2 times 20s3p or even 3 times 20s3p,  KS18S has 3 times 16s2p or 18XL has 2 times 20s3p....so nothing special technically on the Z10 what other manufacters dont have. In contrary, 9b is using the old daisz chained technique and no real paralell, and only recuperates one of the battery packs, a  fault of the early days of EUC.

And to be clear: That is not meant as Z10 bashing....just to make things a bit more clear.

The outside build quality is definitely top notch, no question!

[Lukasz]

3 hours ago, US69 said:

yes, there have been z10 switch off/cut off while riding...One of the first english users “Dean” has broken arm or shoulder, when speeding up the unit it switches off without any warning, has been video recorded in the Ninebot owners group on FB. He needs ambulance to hospital....

Thank You for the info - it does not seem to be wide spread information,  I will try to get more data on this. "when speeding the unit"? seems to had some influence?

3 hours ago, US69 said:

Then, technically, what you call “unique 2 battery compartments” is actually done by all other manufacters, too, since a long time. The Z10 has 2 times 14s3p....GW has 2 times 20s3p or even 3 times 20s3p,  KS18S has 3 times 16s2p or 18XL has 2 times 20s3p....so nothing special technically on the Z10 what other manufacters dont have. 

I am aware of Kingsong and Gotway solutions - KS16S, Gotway MSuperX, KingsongKS18L / XL. I rode and dismantled most of them.  I am referring to unique NB solution with two sets of hall sensors, two battery management units - separate voltages listed for each battery, separate BMS firmware, power management solution which compare battery levels and if power consumption allows (at low speed for example) consume energy only form the battery with higher charge (recharged during ride down the slope for example) - You can see this in NB application, and also in the custom russian made tool NineBattery - which will list voltages for each 3 paralel 14 serial cells for each separate batteries.  Time will tell how this setup will preform in the long run.

3 hours ago, US69 said:

9b is using the old daisz chained technique and no real paralell, and only recuperates one of the battery packs, a  fault of the early days of EUC.

AFAIK the idea of recharging only one battery is the attempt to offer separate power units, so increase redundancy. It is not the "early days solution"

3 hours ago, US69 said:

And to be clear: That is not meant as Z10 bashing....just to make things a bit more clear.

The outside build quality is definitely top notch, no question!

Z10 is not perfect - from my work (see earlier videos) you can see that a lot of small things has to be modded to have it in the "fully ready" status.

In therms of engineering advance Z10 is a step forward vs Gotway KISS approach for example (however I am quite big fan of the Gotway MsuperX , so I am not trying to say that Z10 is better or worse, it is just presenting different approach)  

Edited November 16, 2018 by Lukasz

[palachzzz]

13 hours ago, US69 said:

yes, there have been z10 switch off/cut off while riding...One of the first english users “Dean” has broken arm or shoulder, when speeding up the unit it switches off without any warning, has been video recorded in the Ninebot owners group on FB. He needs ambulance to hospital....

Not true, he rode at it beeping at maximum speed. And he rode with slippers without any protection gear, only a helmet, it is not very smart. And there are no information that Z switched off. Just usual overlean, which is possible on any wheel.

13 hours ago, US69 said:

Then, technically, what you call “unique 2 battery compartments” is actually done by all other manufacters, too, since a long time. The Z10 has 2 times 14s3p....GW has 2 times 20s3p or even 3 times 20s3p,  KS18S has 3 times 16s2p or 18XL has 2 times 20s3p....so nothing special technically on the Z10 what other manufacters dont have. In contrary, 9b is using the old daisz chained technique and no real paralell, and only recuperates one of the battery packs, a  fault of the early days of EUC.

Ninebot Z has two separated batteries no any chain (by the way, "old daisz chained technique" what is that?). Each battery has separate wiring, separate FETs set, and main board connects it to motor independently (most likely - connects battery with highest Voltage, thats why recuperation works only in one battery pack), and as I saw 63Amps in logs - it seems that it swithces they very fast. So nothing common with other techniques which are used by other vendors

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by palachzzz

[Rehab1]

11 hours ago, US69 said:

Just a small hint:

 yes, there have been z10 switch off/cut off while riding...One of the first english users “Dean” has broken arm or shoulder, when speeding up the unit it switches off without any warning, has been video recorded in the Ninebot owners group on FB. He needs ambulance to hospital....

This video was recently posted on the FB NB forum. If this is not Dean then someone else has unfortunately suffered a catastrophic crash/injury. Watching this makes me cringe. Riding with no protection while pushing the envelope. I pray he is ok but it doesn’t appear that way. 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Rehab1

[z3n]

18 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

This video was recently posted on the FB NB forum. If this is not Dean then someone else has unfortunately suffered a catastrophic crash/injury. Watching this makes me cringe. Riding with no protection while pushing the envelope. I pray he is ok but it doesn’t appear that way. 

 

Ouch... that hurts! 

But that is a Rockwheel GT16, isn't it?

[Rehab1]

39 minutes ago, z3n said:

Ouch... that hurts! 

But that is a Rockwheel GT16, isn't it?

Yes after looking at the video again it is not a Z10. The FB page had posted this video after someone was asking about Dean’s health so I just assumed. 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Rehab1

[Lukasz]

2 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

someone else has unfortunately suffered a catastrophic crash/injury.

This is example of pure stupidity.  No more comments needed. I think that he suffered in fact quite minimal injures as he had no protection at all.  This wheel is for sure not Ninebot Z  - just hear the noise...

Pushing wheel to 50 km /h?  no beeps / speed warnings?  this is just asking for death!  Crash was nicely recorded - apparently using Insta 360 one X camera (which survived well) 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Lukasz

[palachzzz]

Guys, this video is not about Ninebot Z, it was Rockwheel GT16 wheel.
I saw video with Dean's fail.. but I can't find it.