Oscillation and cut out problem with Gotway MSuper V3, ACM, maybe Monster shipped from May 2017 onwards

[Rehab1]

2 hours ago, MichaelHensen said:

 

Just a box with the board, a bag of screw and a tube of silicone... No instruction or any note on what to do with it :-)  Just don't forget to remove the Bluetooth module from the old board and transfer it to the new one :-) I almost forgot... !!

That is not very professional! How difficult would it be shoot a video of the entire procedure and post a link! So in your bag of goodies GW did not send any thermal paste?

[Stuart Leitch]

I think I've just experienced the oscillation symptoms on a Monster obtained last week from @Jason McNeil's June 14 import batch. 

On two occasions at speeds around 10-15mph I experienced violent front to back oscillations. The first time was on level ground transitioning from road to sidewalk when it oscillated for perhaps a second then cut out. I was able to run it out with only cosmetic damage to the wheel (I had it heavily wrapped in bumper tape). I’ve a few thousand miles of EUC experience having commuted daily for two years on a KS 14C, but am new to the Monster and had some concern that I maybe just didn’t know how to handle it. I had on heavy armor and a full face helmet (GIRO Switchblade MIPS which is great for EUC), so decided to persevere. I went a few miles further and experienced another bout of violent oscillation, this time when transitioning from asphalt to gravel. I jumped off and ran it out. On this second occasion the Monster either didn’t cut out or quickly recovered because it performed some crazy gymnastics, ultimately landing heavily on the handle and breaking the screw holders along the top between the lights front and back lights. Both circumstances were eerily similar to Marty’s video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7KVjCGJLFs. In both I was transitioning from one surface to another with a small dip (nothing that would remotely challenge the 14C). 

Unfortunately I didn't get video of either oscillation and following the second crash, the Monster is in a constant state of oscillation whenever turned on. I presume this was due to some physical damage during the second crash. I watched Speedy Feet’s teardown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5hproEmiO4) and opened the side panels to investigate. See this video for the oscillation symptoms: 

 

A few times I went to turn it on I also got two quick beeps when turned on, followed by four beeps where the wheel did not balance itself (didn’t get video of this and was unable to later replicate). In either case, the lights turn on and I’m able to connect the app. Nothing appears damaged internally other than the screw holders connecting the case at the top, most of which sheared off. I pushed down on all the board connectors and unplugged and reconnected all the battery cables. There was a faint burnt odor when I initially opened the case, but nothing appears obviously blown.

I've reached out to Jason for support (I'm so glad I ordered from him rather than direct from Gotway!) but figured I would post here to let people know at least one Monster is exhibiting the same symptoms. I'm curious to know if anyone has any idea might be going on with the oscillation spasms following the second crash.
 
For reference: 
Serial: 170512019
Motor code: 170305816HB 

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Stuart Leitch
Fixed video embed

[Dingfelder]

Thanks for letting us know!

You are the first Monster-rider I've heard of with problems that might stem from being part of this particular round of Gotway wheels.

[Carlos E Rodriguez]

20 hours ago, MichaelHensen said:

here is my sticker

And the package received.

Just need to get to the shop to get me some arctic silver cooling paste

If the board came mounted don't remove it unless you know what you are doing. The MOSFET needs to stay insulated from the heat sink with the thermal pad and no silcer paste. 

Understand what you are doing or you will be ordering another board. 

[Carlos E Rodriguez]

13 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Wondering if GW supplied instructions or a link to an installation video came with the new board? Just removing all of the silicone encapsulating the connectors is a pain let alone all of the other issues!

When I received my new board from Jason 4 weeks ago GW informed him that I need to spread the male bullet connector tangs so they fit securely in the female bullet connector.  Here is the photo GW sent along with the email. If customers are not familiar with installing a new board there could be major problems including reconnecting the cells to the board.

 

Lol. That is ridiculous. And most like fracture the male pin. They are not designed to be repositioned. The metal used is very stiff so the pins don't lose pressure over time. If you fan then out you will posibly introduce a fracture. The pins are stiff by design so they retain the pressure. 

[Rehab1]

9 hours ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

Lol. That is ridiculous. And most like fracture the male pin. They are not designed to be repositioned. The metal used is very stiff so the pins don't lose pressure over time. If you fan then out you will posibly introduce a fracture. The pins are stiff by design so they retain the pressure. 

This is why I reinstalled all new bullet connectors! Their connectors were mismatched. Can you imagine the electrical arcing that would take place inside the connector?

[Pard]

On 7/2/2017 at 7:52 AM, Rehab1 said:

This is why I reinstalled all new bullet connectors! Their connectors were mismatched. Can you imagine the electrical arcing that would take place inside the connector?

I plan to solder the motor wires and the board wires directly to each other.  You are not regularly disconnecting them, so it makes sense to have the most resistance free and secure electrical connection.

[US69]

On ‎02‎.‎07‎.‎2017 at 3:03 AM, Stuart Leitch said:

I think I've just experienced the oscillation symptoms on a Monster obtained last week from @Jason McNeil's June 14 import batch. 

On two occasions at speeds around 10-15mph I experienced violent front to back oscillations. The first time was on level ground transitioning from road to sidewalk when it oscillated for perhaps a second then cut out. I was able to run it out with only cosmetic damage to the wheel (I had it heavily wrapped in bumper tape). I’ve a few thousand miles of EUC experience having commuted daily for two years on a KS 14C, but am new to the Monster and had some concern that I maybe just didn’t know how to handle it. I had on heavy armor and a full face helmet (GIRO Switchblade MIPS which is great for EUC), so decided to persevere. I went a few miles further and experienced another bout of violent oscillation, this time when transitioning from asphalt to gravel. I jumped off and ran it out. On this second occasion the Monster either didn’t cut out or quickly recovered because it performed some crazy gymnastics, ultimately landing heavily on the handle and breaking the screw holders along the top between the lights front and back lights. Both circumstances were eerily similar to Marty’s video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7KVjCGJLFs. In both I was transitioning from one surface to another with a small dip (nothing that would remotely challenge the 14C). 

Unfortunately I didn't get video of either oscillation and following the second crash, the Monster is in a constant state of oscillation whenever turned on. I presume this was due to some physical damage during the second crash. I watched Speedy Feet’s teardown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5hproEmiO4) and opened the side panels to investigate. See this video for the oscillation symptoms: 

 

A few times I went to turn it on I also got two quick beeps when turned on, followed by four beeps where the wheel did not balance itself (didn’t get video of this and was unable to later replicate). In either case, the lights turn on and I’m able to connect the app. Nothing appears damaged internally other than the screw holders connecting the case at the top, most of which sheared off. I pushed down on all the board connectors and unplugged and reconnected all the battery cables. There was a faint burnt odor when I initially opened the case, but nothing appears obviously blown.

I've reached out to Jason for support (I'm so glad I ordered from him rather than direct from Gotway!) but figured I would post here to let people know at least one Monster is exhibiting the same symptoms. I'm curious to know if anyone has any idea might be going on with the oscillation spasms following the second crash.
 
For reference: 
Serial: 170512019
Motor code: 170305816HB 

 

From my experience:

 

This seams not to be the "oscillation bug"....For me this Looks like faulty hall sensors letting the wheel flip a bit.....

[Stuart Leitch]

12 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

From my experience:

This seams not to be the "oscillation bug"....For me this Looks like faulty hall sensors letting the wheel flip a bit.....

Do you have any suggestions on how to definitively diagnose? Am I correct that this is part of the motor unit? Is it user replaceable or does it require a new motor?

[Marty Backe]

On 7/1/2017 at 6:03 PM, Stuart Leitch said:

I think I've just experienced the oscillation symptoms on a Monster obtained last week from @Jason McNeil's June 14 import batch. 

On two occasions at speeds around 10-15mph I experienced violent front to back oscillations. The first time was on level ground transitioning from road to sidewalk when it oscillated for perhaps a second then cut out. I was able to run it out with only cosmetic damage to the wheel (I had it heavily wrapped in bumper tape). I’ve a few thousand miles of EUC experience having commuted daily for two years on a KS 14C, but am new to the Monster and had some concern that I maybe just didn’t know how to handle it. I had on heavy armor and a full face helmet (GIRO Switchblade MIPS which is great for EUC), so decided to persevere. I went a few miles further and experienced another bout of violent oscillation, this time when transitioning from asphalt to gravel. I jumped off and ran it out. On this second occasion the Monster either didn’t cut out or quickly recovered because it performed some crazy gymnastics, ultimately landing heavily on the handle and breaking the screw holders along the top between the lights front and back lights. Both circumstances were eerily similar to Marty’s video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7KVjCGJLFs. In both I was transitioning from one surface to another with a small dip (nothing that would remotely challenge the 14C). 

Unfortunately I didn't get video of either oscillation and following the second crash, the Monster is in a constant state of oscillation whenever turned on. I presume this was due to some physical damage during the second crash. I watched Speedy Feet’s teardown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5hproEmiO4) and opened the side panels to investigate. See this video for the oscillation symptoms: 

 

A few times I went to turn it on I also got two quick beeps when turned on, followed by four beeps where the wheel did not balance itself (didn’t get video of this and was unable to later replicate). In either case, the lights turn on and I’m able to connect the app. Nothing appears damaged internally other than the screw holders connecting the case at the top, most of which sheared off. I pushed down on all the board connectors and unplugged and reconnected all the battery cables. There was a faint burnt odor when I initially opened the case, but nothing appears obviously blown.

I've reached out to Jason for support (I'm so glad I ordered from him rather than direct from Gotway!) but figured I would post here to let people know at least one Monster is exhibiting the same symptoms. I'm curious to know if anyone has any idea might be going on with the oscillation spasms following the second crash.
 
For reference: 
Serial: 170512019
Motor code: 170305816HB 

 

That's really too bad about your new Monster  I agree with others, this is another failure mechanism unrelated to the firmware. Like every product made on Earth, a certain percentage fail early. Jason has told me that all brands (and he ships lots of wheels) have early failures. You're the unlucky one that gets a Monster failure. Hopefully Jason will get you fixed up as quickly as possible.

[US69]

1 hour ago, Stuart Leitch said:

Do you have any suggestions on how to definitively diagnose? Am I correct that this is part of the motor unit? Is it user replaceable or does it require a new motor?

you should contact your seller...IF IT is the hall sensors, yes, thats motor parts at the magnets, (could also be faulty board) the motor or board should be renewed by warranty!

[Stuart Leitch]

56 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

you should contact your seller...IF IT is the hall sensors, yes, thats motor parts at the magnets, (could also be faulty board) the motor or board should be renewed by warranty!

Thank you. @Jason McNeil has been very responsive and has replacement Monster motors on the way (clearing customs).

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

That's really too bad about your new Monster  I agree with others, this is another failure mechanism unrelated to the firmware. Like every product made on Earth, a certain percentage fail early. Jason has told me that all brands (and he ships lots of wheels) have early failures. You're the unlucky one that gets a Monster failure. Hopefully Jason will get you fixed up as quickly as possible.

Marty, I appreciate the perspective on failure percentages. I expect reliability will improve markedly as the technology matures. Thank you also all the evangelizing you do for the EUC community.

Jason is taking care of me. I've been very impressed with his service to date. He is clearly very passionate about wheels.

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, Stuart Leitch said:

Thank you. @Jason McNeil has been very responsive and has replacement Monster motors on the way (clearing customs).

Marty, I appreciate the perspective on failure percentages. I expect reliability will improve markedly as the technology matures. Thank you also all the evangelizing you do for the EUC community.

Jason is taking care of me. I've been very impressed with his service to date. He is clearly very passionate about wheels.

Thank you. And good to hear that Jason is on top of things (I'd be surprised if he wasn't).

[Carlos E Rodriguez]

10 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

From my experience:

 

This seams not to be the "oscillation bug"....For me this Looks like faulty hall sensors letting the wheel flip a bit.....

The burnt smell is tell tell sign that a mosfet burned. If only one phase poped it would explain the choppy behavior. Put good pictures of the board with good lighting so we can see. 

Another issue that might be secondary is the after the violent tumble the cable with the hall sensors came loose. Most likely one of the crimped hall sensors is defective and came loose. It is the connector with the 5 wires going from the motor to the board. 

[Mono]

22 hours ago, Stuart Leitch said:

I expect reliability will improve markedly as the technology matures.

The only problem is that the old Gotway models have the reputation to be quite reliable and even almost unbreakable. No improvement there. The problem in this case is rather not any new technology, but a rather irresponsible or careless way of design and manufacturing.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Mono

[FrenchieEUC]

Sorry for all the injuries and cut off i've seen here ! it definitely stopped me from upgrading to the super.

that being said, I'm probably going to be touring holland on an upgraded wheel (which I need because i STILL have a puny mcm2 S)

do you recommend switching to Kingsong ? a KS 18 really seems like a good wheel, despite it's bulky appearance, safety is really a big concern ever since my first cut off (I was going too fast, i have learned the lesson) 

I heard some echo saying kingsong wasn't as nimble as the super.

I could wait for a Msuper and part of me wants to, that wheel just looks amazing, but there's no update for the issue and i still see some on sale on aliexpress, does that mean some aren't affected ?  

[Chriull]

29 minutes ago, FrenchieEUC said:

...

I could wait for a Msuper and part of me wants to, that wheel just looks amazing, but there's no update for the issue

There is a firmware fix by now, but you'd need a local reseller to reflash the board.

29 minutes ago, FrenchieEUC said:

and i still see some on sale on aliexpress, does that mean some aren't affected ?  

Some are not - some are. Buying now on alieexpress could be like playing Russian roulette...

[FrenchieEUC]

OK I see, I might just skip the hassle and get an older msuper or KS, I doubt they'll flash the board for free in Paris (very few local sellers).

Thanks for the info @Chriull

[Marty Backe]

7 hours ago, FrenchieEUC said:

OK I see, I might just skip the hassle and get an older msuper or KS, I doubt they'll flash the board for free in Paris (very few local sellers).

Thanks for the info @Chriull

I've heard that the French community does have access to the Gotway firmware updater. Whether that's Paris I have no idea. But you guys have a very large contingent of Gotway riders and dealer support.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Marty Backe

[FrenchieEUC]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I've heard that the French community does have access to the Gotway firmware updater. Whether that's Paris I have no idea. Buy you guys have a very large contingent of Gotway riders and dealer support.

yes that's good to hear, I know a few shops but it's still a blooming market. Interestingly enough i decided to take a screenshot of my little talk with jane to get more info.

She said it was fixed, I remain cautious.

 I will go test some of these bad boys out at a local shop, the euro pricing is steep so i usually buy directly from the factory anyways. 

 

[Marty Backe]

6 minutes ago, FrenchieEUC said:

yes that's good to hear, I know a few shops but it's still a blooming market. Interestingly enough i decided to take a screenshot of my little talk with jane to get more info.

She said it was fixed, I remain cautious.

 I will go test some of these bad boys out at a local shop, the euro pricing is steep so i usually buy directly from the factory anyways. 

 

I wouldn't believe it. I personally saw the e-mail between Gotway and EWheels where they said his wheels were good. When he received them, about 2/3rds (of ~50 units) were bad. I think if you buy a wheel manufactured after June you are safe. Otherwise I would only trust the wheels bought from a dealer that I trusted.

[FrenchieEUC]

 

3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I wouldn't believe it. I personally saw the e-mail between Gotway and EWheels where they said his wheels were good. When he received them, about 2/3rds (of ~50 units) were bad. I think if you buy a wheel manufactured after June you are safe. Otherwise I would only trust the wheels bought from a dealer that I trusted.

Damn ... that's around 60% failure, such a shame because Gotway is advertised as the best in the biz' 

And yeah, such a short answer usually arouses much suspicion indeed !

Kingsong gets more appealing by the hour

[Rehab1]

26 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Otherwise I would only trust the wheels bought from a dealer that I trusted.

Totally agree! I bought my ACM 1600 on Aliexpress from the Green and Fashion Traveling Shop 4 months ago. I have never been contacted by them to alert me of the of the firmware update! Never again! I will only deal with @Jason McNeil in my country. He has a proven track record and goes way beyond the call of duty to support his customers! He is sending me out a new ACM board today.

I can't imagine not belonging to this forum and being completely unaware of these firmware issues! Such a wealth of information!

[US69]

3 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Totally agree! I bought my ACM 1600 on Aliexpress from the Green and Fashion Traveling Shop 4 months ago. I have never been contacted by them to alert me of the of the firmware update!

 I dont understand why they should contact you? The Firmware/Ocillating Problems only have been on wheels which were delivered/produced from End of April to mid/end May....

Yours from 4 month ago is not affected in any way from this.....and the Firmware which is now flashed onto the defect wheels is no "new" Firmware...it is the same old Firmware Version that all old wheels have....

[Rehab1]

15 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

I dont understand why they should contact you? The Firmware/Ocillating Problems only have been on wheels which were delivered/produced from End of April to mid/end May....

Because I had contacted them recently just to investigate out what their response would be being they have lots of customers. I also contacted them numerous times when I need a new motor. I have yet to receive any response from them. It appears you are on your own once the wheel is sold. Interesting I did receive a response from the Ebay seller that sold me a MB telling me not to ride my ACM until the firmware is updated. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Rehab1